Calling all Baritones

[DukeOfBoom]

michael stipe is definitely NOT a tenor.

 

he's about as baritone as can be. a lot of these rock singers can't be classified in traditional baritone/tenor frames, but michael stipe is definitely one who can be - and he's a baritone.

[jvardon]

Lol. So the stereotype that most black guys have low voices might actually be true? That's interesting. Lyric baritones are quite light though, and a higher baritone too compared to the rest. I guess nature likes higher voices because I've also read that soprano is the more common of the female voices.

[davie]

Duke's right. Most rock and pop singers can't really be classified. And the E4 to A4 phenomenon which is a rough approximate is pretty common for either baritone or tenor. This is because the upper passaggio of a baritone is roughly at E4 and the top of their full range voice is about A4/A#4. For tenors, their lower passaggio is usually around D4 to E4 and their upper passaggio is around A4. So one of the main ways to classify voice type is by listening to vocal timbre. A tenor and baritone might be able to sound similar in the low range, but within the passaggio its more obvious.

[staticsound]

Baritone - Jim Morrison

 

Tenor - Geddy Lee

[DukeOfBoom]

 

Lol. So the stereotype that most black guys have low voices might actually be true?

 

 

what are you talking about? black peoples voices are all over the place. michael jackson & bruno mars practically have girl voice ranges (which happens to give me a headache when they sing that high). marvin gaye and sam cooke are tenors. wilson picket & bill withers are baritone. chef from south park is bass.

 

your problem is you listen to all the wrong black singers, which warps your view. you have to listen to the black folk who can actually sing, not this chris brown, nicky minaj and 50 cent crap.

[DukeOfBoom]

 

This is because the upper passaggio of a baritone is roughly at E4 and the top of their full range voice is about A4/A#4. For tenors, their lower passaggio is usually around D4 to E4 and their upper passaggio is around A4.

 

 

what are you talking about? this makes no sense either.

[davie]

what are you talking about? this makes no sense either.

 

 

You should check out Richard Miller's books. He talks a lot about voice types, passaggios, etc..

[DukeOfBoom]

You should check out Richard Miller's books. He talks a lot about voice types, passaggios, etc..

 

baritones passagio generally starts at E4 (or D#4) and goes up to A-ish. e4 is NOt the "upper passagio," it's the damn beginning. Whether Dick Miller says it is or it isn't, I don't care.

[davie]

Yeah. It varies from book to book. What about you? Do you consider yourself a baritone or tenor?

[DukeOfBoom]

 

What about you? Do you consider yourself a baritone or tenor?

 

 

I tend to consider myself a handsome, charming, and athletic young man. Thanks for asking.

[Consume]

 

Lol. So the stereotype that most black guys have low voices might actually be true? That's interesting. Lyric baritones are quite light though, and a higher baritone too compared to the rest. I guess nature likes higher voices because I've also read that soprano is the more common of the female voices.

 

 

Actually, I always thought that most black guys had higher voices.

The problem with the classification system is that really should be based on how low you can go, and not how high you can go, because you can always add higher notes, and through training you can even learn to manipulate the muscles in the throat in order to modify your timbre when going higher in your range.

Think about it, when you first start singing higher - it usually sounds very nasty but thanks to proper training, over time you learn to smooth it out.

[Consume]

When I was taking private lessons, my instructor said I am a Heldentenor, which is essentially a baritone with an extremely strong tenor range. She said she liked to call it a "Baritenor", because I could sing in both ranges equally well. (She was big on German Opera - Wagner, Orff, etc.)

[Consume]

 

what are you talking about? this makes no sense either.

 

 

Sure it makes sense. Tenors and Baritones generally have the same top range(+/- a few notes), the Tenor just can't sing as low as a Baritone.... that is why it doesn't seem to make sense. A Tenor's vocal cords are not as long as a Baritone's, so they can't go as low. That is the real difference between the two.

[Masklin]

Y'all niggas making a mess of this thread.

 

Classifying through lowest note is not viable either, as some people have the ability to go extremely low but their resonance faded far above their limit.

[Consume]

Resonance can be increased via expanding the throat, and reshaping of the internal structure of the throat with actual physical exercises that change the shape of the front of the throat.

[Nhoj Nonnel]

 

I need to check with my teacher. I don't quite know, it's around 2 octaves.

 

 

Serg, a 2 octave range is fine, as that covers about 99% of all songs, excepting the classical repertoire.

 

One huge mistake that amateur singers often make, is they try to sing at the same "pitch" as their favorite singers. Now if one's voice can naturally handle the extreme high or extreme low notes that some singers use, then fine, go ahead. But if the extreme notes don't suit one's natural voice, then copying those singers is a one way trip to endless failure and disappointment.

 

Sure, there's always someone who can successfully change from a baritone to a high tenor, and vice versa, but they are the exception, NOT the rule. Fighting mother nature does not yield workable, professional results for the vast, vast majority of singers.

 

So what does one do then? Well, you simply sing the song in a key that suits "your" voice. In other words, either lower, or heighten the pitch, so that you can comfortably sing the lowest note in the tune and comfortably sing the highest note in the tune. There's NO LAW WHATSOEVER that mandates you must sing a song that's pitched to suit any other specific singer. Any singer will ALWAYS get best results when a song is sung at a pitch to suit "himself". And as I said, most tunes have a max. 2 octave range (sometimes just a little bit more).

 

Remember, the measure of a good voice is how you communicate the lyrics with it; the love, sadness, joy, hope etc etc contained within the lyric. There's been thousands of successful, professional, good singers whose "effective" range falls within 2 and a bit octaves. It's all about the timbre of the voice, the maturity of tone, the control, and the use of effective interpretation to communicate a feeling. To do ALL of that, it's not necessary to have a super human range; that's NOT what good singing is about. If someone can do that, then that's great, it's an extra thing they can do; but remember they are a tiny, tiny, tiny minority. If a singer has an "effective" 2 octave and a bit range, he/she can sing 99% of popular music.

 

For some strange reason, we have these days lots and lots of male amateur singers, who want to sing like girls. They're not happy with their male voices, and desire to sing loudly and effectively at pitches that come naturally to girl singers. No wonder the huge majority of then fail, and spend their whole lives struggling to sing at these unnatural (for them) pitches.

 

What's wrong with a man sounding like a MAN? Nothing, absolutely nothing!!

[jvardon]

 

Sure, there's always someone who can successfully change from a baritone to a high tenor, and vice versa, but they are the exception, NOT the rule. Fighting mother nature does not yield workable, professional results for the vast, vast majority of singers.

 

 

I disagree, a baritone can sing in a high tenor range once he's developed that part of his voice but that doesn't make him a high tenor. His voice will always have the preferred comfort zone of his baritone nature.

[Nhoj Nonnel]

 

I disagree, a baritone can sing in a high tenor range once he's developed that part of his voice but that doesn't make him a high tenor. His voice will always have the preferred comfort zone of his baritone nature.

 

 

Actually you don't disagree. We agree. You've misinterpreted what I wrote. That's the problem with the written word on a forum, it can be difficult to express an idea clearly and fully without writing pages and pages of information.

 

I'll try to clarify what I meant.

 

I'm not saying that baritones can't sing in a high tenor range. Of course many of them can, usually with training. I'm saying that a baritone doesn't "turn into" a high tenor singer just because he sings up so high. The baritone will always feel more comfortable, and sound better, singing within the baritone range. So we agree.

 

The "best" person to sing in the baritone range is a baritone, in the bass range a bass singer, in the high tenor range a high tenor etc etc. And the best person to sing in the soprano range is a female, or even a young boy before his voice breaks. Grown men singing like girls sounds like "grown men singing like girls" ... in other words the best person to sing in the soprano range is a female.

 

There are ALWAYS people who do not fit the mold that mother nature has decreed for the vast majority of singers. These gifted singers can sing in a way that sometimes defies belief: But for the other 99.99% of singers to think that similar things are possible for them, results in a lifetime of singing struggle and disappointment (and LOTS of profit for hundreds of singing teachers who promise the world). Defying what mother nature has given you, just doesn't work for the vast majority of singers. To sing the popular music repertoire simply does not require a 3 or 4 octave range. To sing a song well, an informed singer adjusts the key of the tune, either up or down, to suit "his" voice. Just because a certain singer sings a song at a particular pitch, doesn't mean every singer has to sing that song at the same pitch.

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a man sounding like a "man" when he sings. It's what the vast majority of male singers sound best doing.

[jvardon]

I wish, I really do Duke.

[jvardon]

Behavior is a smaller constituent that fifty percent, I'd put myself at 20%

[jvardon]

Somehow I think I might need vocal chord modification therapy too, just a thought.

[jvardon]

I don't dance around poles.........................this is the ideal moment for a dirty joke, with gay references, but I think I'll try to keep the forum more PG for Amelia. I hope they'll pay for it. It's a little too risky though, I think I'll keep my bass-baritone.

[jvardon]

LOL, and the consequences are?

[jvardon]

That would take a while seeing that I live in a very dull suburb. I think I'll stay in my chair in my room in the comfortable heating and lack of speeding vehicles.

[jvardon]

I think you forgot the bit about living in a dull suburb.