Moderators davie Posted April 29, 2011 Moderators Share Posted April 29, 2011 Hey guys (and Gracie ), This may be directed more towards the guys. Just wondering, where exactly is your upper break? Basically, on which note does your voice: -start to crack or flip (into falsetto)? -or transition into head voice register? -or gets difficult/comfortable? For myself I noticed that my break is somewhere between E4 to F#4. My voice is kinda weird within this range. E4 is when it starts getting "difficult" F4 is probably the highest note in full voice with decent tone. and F#4 is wimpy at best and somewhat breathy While G4 is pretty much non-existent in full voice. (static, maybe I need better 'cover'? ) I just find it somewhat frustrating, since I can't sing that high, so there aren't many songs that I can cover. Anyway guys, how is your break like? How are your experiences with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members staticsound Posted April 29, 2011 Members Share Posted April 29, 2011 Mines right at F#4. I swear to god, that's the hardest note to sing, lol. You can cover all the way up to maybe an A4 for some. After that it's all headvoice (not falsetto). I usually try to start the whole "covering" process at E4, if you start bridging early, it makes the vocal break pretty non existent. My coach always told me, the higher the note, the deeper the placement. It gives lower head tones a chestier sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DukeOfBoom Posted April 29, 2011 Members Share Posted April 29, 2011 You are 100% normal davie. The E-F#4 is where the break is for 99% of all normal guys. I am in the exact same location, and obviously staticsound is too. You should be able to strengthen your G/G#4 belt with some practice though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jersey Jack Posted April 29, 2011 Members Share Posted April 29, 2011 G#4 for me. G4 and A4 are also difficult, but I really hate G#4! Once I get to Bb4, I'm fine for a good half-octave on top of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators davie Posted April 29, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted April 29, 2011 I actually try to start covering around middle C. Maybe I need to train my head voice register more? And maybe I'm using too much air. Lately, I've been practicing dragging down my head voice/falsetto into my middle register. I bring down the head voice to about middle C. When in the head voice mode, the timbre of the notes C4 to F4 seem similar to full voice, except with less volume. I've heard that some voice types need to be trained from top to bottom, rather than the opposite. Maybe I should try it and continue with this approach? I do have a history of "over-pushing" the voice with too much chest voice. Static, can you describe how you work your cover? I'm not sure how to do the vowel modification to get pass the break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators davie Posted April 29, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted April 29, 2011 Also I've been writing some new songs. I'm trying to decide on which key to use.The top note in the song is a F#4 in full voice. And there's the decision whether to go head voice or full voice on that note. I tried transposing it down by a semitone and also a whole note, but the chorus loses some intensity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EightString Posted April 29, 2011 Members Share Posted April 29, 2011 About B4 or C5 before I would use falsetto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members staticsound Posted April 29, 2011 Members Share Posted April 29, 2011 Yeah, I always had a problem of pulling to much chest up...I still do sometimes, lol. I'll see if I can record an example when I get off work. Basically, to practice the covered thing, it's just on a meh vowel and open up into may on the top note. Instead of belting the top note forward, it should be placed further back. Pretty much doing this with an open mouth..like your biting into an apple, dumps the larynx enough to get that sound. It is in a sense quieter, but that's where the nose resonance kicks in to make it perceivably louder. Hope I didn't confuse you...I confused myself a bit, lol. I'll post something up later tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators davie Posted April 29, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted April 29, 2011 How's your larynx position and tongue position like while doing this? And thanks, a clip sounds like a great idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members staticsound Posted April 29, 2011 Members Share Posted April 29, 2011 Tongue is flat with the tip kind of pushed up against the bottom teeth on the notes around the passaggio to keep the larynx neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted April 29, 2011 Members Share Posted April 29, 2011 Hmm. I don't know. I'd have to work it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members staticsound Posted April 29, 2011 Members Share Posted April 29, 2011 Davie, I figure I'll just give you the sample track of what I was talking about. He explains it a little better, lol. I do these pretty much every day and it has helped me out a lot when it comes to covering and getting a really full head voice. http://picosong.com/jht/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators davie Posted April 29, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted April 29, 2011 Ooh, is this the "Jack Black" guy? lolThis is interesting. Never thought about doing sirens using fifths.I usually practice my 'cover' using major thirds.That siren from the D#4 to A#4 seems intense. Not sure if I can pull it off, but maybe I'll try it in the morning (when no one is trying to sleep. lol). Thanks, I'll see what I can do with this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators davie Posted April 29, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted April 29, 2011 Btw, the part right after he says "Let's take it downtown"Did he just move to an octave higher?If so, why did he skip to an octave higher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members staticsound Posted April 29, 2011 Members Share Posted April 29, 2011 Yes it's the Jack Black guy, haha. Seriously though man, this guy has done wonders for me...that's why I keep pimping his stuff He's got me closer to getting the "Cornell" sound that I want, lol. The key thing with these sirens is to keep them "light" and not belty. The higher the pitch, the deeper the placement. And yes, the octave jump at the end was more than likely for flash. I just PM'd you something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators davie Posted April 29, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted April 29, 2011 I start singing in head voice at A4. There's no "break" because I've long, long ago stopped using the muscles that support chest voice, when singing in head voice. When I was learning to sing my voice would hit a slight "strain" barrier at D above middle C and by the time I got up to G I was straining badly and could not go higher. I was using the same muscles and support for the higher notes that I was using for my chest voice. That was my problem. I eventually found that by releasing muscular tension and support, that I could reach G without any strain whatsoever, but initially the tone was weak. By persevering with the use of almost zero, and I really mean almost "ZERO", muscular support from anywhere in my body/throat/mouth, practicing it for about 2 hours each day for several months, the tone and volume slowly got better and better. Then I discovered something. At around G to A my voice started to go into head voice, and it was a strong head voice. My air flow would flip over the top of the soft palette, yet there was no break in the tone and volume like you get with falsetto. I realized that this is what head voice is, and it took me a further month or so to get it relaxed enough so that it was as loud and strong as my chest voice. Once into head voice, I found I could sing in a loud, yet relaxed manner, from A up to E. That's the high E note on a guitar at the 12th fret. I rarely use head voice, because I prefer to sing in a baritone/low tenor voice, which suits the type of music I sing. But I always use head voice when practicing, I usually practice it from as low as middle C and up. I've found that by maintaining a clear and loud head voice, my mid and lower ranges are automatically conditioned. In other words I don't need to spend much time maintaining my chest voice. By far, the most important discovery I made was NOT how to get effectively into head voice. The main discovery was, how to negotiate the area where the "straining" that I spoke of earlier existed, D above middle C to G above middle C. By teaching myself to let go of throat and body muscle tension, i was eventually able to sing those notes with ease in a full, loud voice. Then when I got as high as that A note, my voice was totally unsupported by those chest voice muscles, and it's this LACK of muscular support that enables me to slip easily into head voice. Singing from D above middle C, and up to my highest notes, is for me all about NOT using muscular support. I spent years using all that muscle and tension and it got me nowhere. I suppose some people just can't relax their bodies and throats, so I guess those people especially would have a hard time with their voices. When I was learning and first realized I might be onto something, I found that I needed to use a quiet room where I could spend a good amount of time and totally relax everything, especially in my throat. By singing quietly and delicately in the "strain" area, I was eventually able to heavily concentrate on what throat muscles I was and wasn't using. It was a matter of constant repetition, and slowly bit by bit eliminating unnecessary muscular support. Hmm.. interesting. I think I really need to discover the proper head voice sensations then. Also I think tension might be big problem for me, especially from the jaw. I have a history of TMJ problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jvardon Posted April 29, 2011 Members Share Posted April 29, 2011 OMG!! I'm surround by high voices, I feel like I'm in a pit looking up. *Sad face*The highest I can go with full voice is F4 to really, and I mean really, push it.Naturally I'm practically in head voice by C4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators davie Posted April 29, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted April 29, 2011 OMG!! I'm surround by high voices, I feel like I'm in a pit looking up. *Sad face* The highest I can go with full voice is F4 to really, and I mean really, push it. Naturally I'm practically in head voice by C4. Yeah I know. Darn high voices. lol Don't worry. You're not too different from me. And right now I consider myself a middle voice. Though I still can't get pass my break.. Gonna work it on though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members staticsound Posted April 29, 2011 Members Share Posted April 29, 2011 OMG!! I'm surround by high voices, I feel like I'm in a pit looking up. *Sad face*The highest I can go with full voice is F4 to really, and I mean really, push it.Naturally I'm practically in head voice by C4. Really?! Middle C should be fairly easy...even a Bass by classical standards should be able to hit up to an E4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators davie Posted April 29, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted April 29, 2011 Really?! Middle C should be fairly easy...even a Bass by classical standards should be able to hit up to an E4? From what I've read, bass voices when well-trained should be able to vocalize up to an A4, which is still quite high.My middle C is not too bad, possibly one of my best notes. And that is about where I start my vowel modification. If I don't modify it, it gets more difficult. Though when I was younger (like 18 or 19), I rarely even sang pass A3, due to strain and forcing too much chest. So it's mostly a matter of technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members staticsound Posted April 29, 2011 Members Share Posted April 29, 2011 From what I've read, bass voices when well-trained should be able to vocalize up to an A4, which is still quite high.My middle C is not too bad, possibly one of my best notes. And that is about where I start my vowel modification. If I don't modify it, it gets more difficult. Though when I was younger (like 18 or 19), I rarely even sang pass A3, due to strain and forcing too much chest. So it's mostly a matter of technique. This is true, I had the same problem when I was around the same age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jvardon Posted April 29, 2011 Members Share Posted April 29, 2011 I can do middle C in full voice but I'm saying if I leave my voice in the register it wants to be in, it's already in head voice by middle C. That's how low I am.Darn low voices but as you said I can get up to A4 in head voice and these days a C5 maybe D5 too. YAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MikeyParent Posted April 29, 2011 Members Share Posted April 29, 2011 What do you guys do/use to determine this? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators davie Posted April 29, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted April 29, 2011 What do you guys do/use to determine this? Just curious. I guess you can just sing a scale and see where you "stop". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jvardon Posted April 29, 2011 Members Share Posted April 29, 2011 But he might not know which not he's on.Get a piano, and start up from chest. You'll feel when you need to transition to keep the effort as low as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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