Members Fran da Man Posted July 19, 2005 Members Share Posted July 19, 2005 Ebonics has about as much validity as Pig Latin. The goal of the district's policy is to improve black students' academic performance by keeping them interested in school. Compared with other racial groups in the district, black students go to college the least and have the most dropouts and suspensions. Lets dumb the system down even farther, weren't College entrance test scores already reduced to give Blacks a better chance years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fastplant Posted July 19, 2005 Members Share Posted July 19, 2005 Originally posted by Fran da Man Ebonics has about as much validity as Pig Latin. Lets dumb the system down even farther, weren't College entrance test scores already reduced to give Blacks a better chance years ago? Exactly, if the reason is that they want them to do better in other classes, then the intelligent move would be to step up the English program, not dumb down the other classes. So let's say they get into college with the Ebonics classes, what happens when the college expects them to communicate in an intelligent fashion? Are we going to change the collegiate level as well? Why not have the whole country ditch English in favor of Ebonics instead of expecting these few kids actually put their mind to something. If they're not "interested" enough, it's not an issue of a language-barrier, it's poor teaching. Let's not lay blame on anything other than it truly is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members greenshag Posted July 19, 2005 Members Share Posted July 19, 2005 english, as we speak and know it here in the US is the majority language, if people want to speak a minority language, then fine...ON YOUR OWN TIME!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted July 19, 2005 Members Share Posted July 19, 2005 Having attended West Virginia public schools for my primary education, I am thrilled that they did not teach us in a language that would have been easier for most of my classmates to understand. Had that been the case, I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ColdFyre Posted July 19, 2005 Members Share Posted July 19, 2005 Originally posted by burdizzos It Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted July 19, 2005 Members Share Posted July 19, 2005 That's not my stance, but rather that of those who support teaching ebonics rather than the commonly spoken version of English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_big_geez Posted July 19, 2005 Members Share Posted July 19, 2005 Originally posted by bikehorn ~el snipola~ I'm laughing my ass off remembering that way back before the internet was even a gleam in Al Gore's eye, there was a terminal program known as 'Jive'. (apparently ther still IS such a thing...) Not too long afterwards there was a spoof of it known as a 'Jive Emulator'. (Some of my fellow old farts may recall this...) You could run any text file through the Jive Emulator, and it would be translated. What the Jive Emulator did was replace all pronouns with ya'll, and end nearly every sentence with 'Sheeeit!', plus a few other catch manoeuvers that supposedly make a slanguage into a language. I wish I still had a copy; I'd run this post through it just for kicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Deville Posted July 19, 2005 Members Share Posted July 19, 2005 Lykis had fun with this topic today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J. Posted July 20, 2005 Members Share Posted July 20, 2005 Originally posted by Smorgasboy There seem two be two arguments going on here.One is academic: Ebonics is technically a language all its own and its speakers deserve to be respected as culturally different from the rest of us.The other is practical: If you speak a "language" that isn't widely recognized, and which makes you sound uneducated and straight out of the ghetto, you will find it extremely difficult to find gainful employment or respect from people who can't decipher what in the hell it is you're trying to say--you know, like in a job interview or on a 911 call.Given the reality that Ebonics is, after all, a product of poor education in the first place, why would we want to teach it in schools? "Hey kids, you want to sound like you come from a background that doesn't value education or intelligent discourse....GREAT, here's your Ebonics textbook--I hope you'll enjoy being homeless!"I live in DC, where the English language is mangled on a daily basis. Funny thing, though--while you hear ebonics in soup kitchens and fast food restaurants, it's rarely heard in office environments.Teaching Ebonics in public schools is a disservice to students, and is quite plainly a really stupid idea. I couldn't have said it better. Teaching ebonics in public schools is a horrible idea that cannot be seriously defended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldivor Posted July 20, 2005 Members Share Posted July 20, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bikehorn Posted July 20, 2005 Author Members Share Posted July 20, 2005 i can't believe there's even a debate over this!!! i mean, jeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted July 20, 2005 Members Share Posted July 20, 2005 Maybe if you don't understand why there is a debate, you don't understand the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted July 20, 2005 Members Share Posted July 20, 2005 Originally posted by scarecrowbob Maybe if you don't understand why there is a debate, you don't understand the topic. I thought the debate was over who is and who is not a bigot. I didn't realize that anyone actually supported the idea. Did I miss the post that detailed the merit of such a program? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted July 20, 2005 Members Share Posted July 20, 2005 Originally posted by burdizzos I thought the debate was over who is and who is not a bigot.I didn't realize that anyone actually supported the idea.Did I miss the post that detailed the merit of such a program? Jah, I guess I don't even support the program-- but not becuase people who have a different accent are stupid. It is a disservice, but I assure you that the kids from Paducah TX I teach write about as well as the 2-3 that I have had whowrite what linguists describe as AAVE . Still it is an interesting idea, and since it is their own distirct (where I assume that a majority of students speak in this register), hey, they should be able to experement as they wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bholder Posted July 20, 2005 Members Share Posted July 20, 2005 Originally posted by J. I couldn't have said it better. Teaching ebonics in public schools is a horrible idea that cannot be seriously defended. You know, though, maybe they should start teaching it as a night course for us adult white folks. Maybe then, I'd have a chance at understanding the people on the drive through at KFC - I swear, the one in Ithaca, I often have to ask them to repeat slowly at least 3 or 4 times before I can decipher what they're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted July 20, 2005 Members Share Posted July 20, 2005 Originally posted by bholder You know, though, maybe they should start teaching it as a night course for us adult white folks. The problem with that is, by the time you're finished with the course, the entire vernacular will have changed. Dig? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lonesome Cactus Posted July 21, 2005 Members Share Posted July 21, 2005 How do you say "whitey done me wrong" in ebonics? What nonsense. They're either too stupid or too lazy ti learn to speak English properly, so they invent this crap and claim they have a "genetic predisposition" toward speaking in this manner. Christ. From now on, I'm going to blame whitey for my every failure. Come to think of it, I be whitey - siiiiiiii.... LC:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rikshaw Posted July 21, 2005 Members Share Posted July 21, 2005 Originally posted by Fran da Man Ebonics has about as much validity as Pig Latin. pig latin is cooler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rikshaw Posted July 21, 2005 Members Share Posted July 21, 2005 Originally posted by burdizzos I didn't realize that anyone actually supported the idea. there isnt anyone stupid enough here to support this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_big_geez Posted July 21, 2005 Members Share Posted July 21, 2005 There is only ONE thing that is stupid about Ebonics; it's the same thing that is stupid about any language: Languages only exist as a means of communicating with others. If they fail to accomplish that task they have no vaue at all. Right, wrong, indifferent or otherwise the English language is the language of MONEY. This is why it its taught in nearly all nations, especially those with banking economies (eg:SW). I can't see anything wrong with the idea of teaching English in an English-speaking country. In fact, many problems might simply dissapear, were we all speaking the same language, and all fully informed of the meaning of words. 'Ebonnics' is not a language, and it should not be 'taught' in public schools. It is not but a gutteral bastardisation of another language (English) with no purpose other than perpetuating a racial divide between those who CAN speak it and those who cannot. From whence a language and its own words derived is not important. All that matters is that others to whom it is spoken actually can understand it. Inventing new languages is not an answer to the probelm that lack of communication poses. ONLY clarification of definition of existig terms can aid ibn this dilemma. "The problem with comunication is the illusion that it has been accompkished." --G.B. Shaw New words are not the answer to people not understanding words that already exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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