Members s4001 Posted September 1, 2006 Members Share Posted September 1, 2006 Originally posted by PaulyWally If US citizens want to work them so badly, then how come we have so many jobs available for immigrants? And how come our homeless population has been on the rise the past few years?It's the whole supply and demand concept brought up earlier in this thread. If there are no jobs, they will likely stop coming. But there ARE jobs. And there ARE Americans that refuse to work those jobs.Sure, there are other variables involved. But if immigrants are getting jobs, then the jobs are out there. And I've heard one too many Americans say that there are no jobs.Wrong... they just think that the job is beneath them.Not all Americans are lazy. But many are. And, in general, this country has gone soft. It's basic economics. Many jobs here that used to pay 15$/ hr now are being filled with folks willing to do the job for $4/hr. Import a huge population of poverty and wages get deflated - shocker. Add a welfare state that sends checks to anyone that isn't willing to work (mind you there's plenty of non-english speakers on those rolls) and two parties that love cheap labor and cheap votes and this is what we've got. The crap ass line that the government feeds us that 'jobs that we won't do' is horse{censored}. We've done those jobs for almost 400 years. They just sold out those jobs and would like you to blame someone else for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members der oxenrig Posted September 1, 2006 Members Share Posted September 1, 2006 All I know is, my neighborhood wouldn't look nearly as nice if it weren't for the illegal Mexicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted September 1, 2006 Members Share Posted September 1, 2006 Originally posted by s4001 It's basic economics. Many jobs here that used to pay 15$/ hr now are being filled with folks willing to do the job for $4/hr. Import a huge population of poverty and wages get deflated - shocker. Add a welfare state that sends checks to anyone that isn't willing to work (mind you there's plenty of non-english speakers on those rolls) and two parties that love cheap labor and cheap votes and this is what we've got. The crap ass line that the government feeds us that 'jobs that we won't do' is horse{censored}. We've done those jobs for almost 400 years. They just sold out those jobs and would like you to blame someone else for it. The unemployment rate is lower now (4.8%) than it was at any point in 1996 (ten years ago) The Unemployment rate among whites is 4.1%, lower than the national average, and also lower than at any point in 1996... The Unemployment rate among 25-year olds or older without a highschool diploma is 7.1%, also lower than 10 years ago...For 25+ with a highschool diploma, 4.5%...For 25+ with some college or associates degree, 3.6%... For 25+ with a bachelor's degree or higher? 2.1% 2.1% for 2.5+ with a college degree...4.5% for folks who only have a highschool diploma... What jobs are disappearing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeonVomit Posted September 1, 2006 Members Share Posted September 1, 2006 Originally posted by lug socialized medicine.....runs like hell Nah, even the well-off people who go private have awful teeth. A topic for deeper study, methinks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeonVomit Posted September 1, 2006 Members Share Posted September 1, 2006 Originally posted by Crescent Seven Aren't you tired of people trying to hit you with the Bigot Stick every time you talk about illegal aliens? I know I'm tired to having it glance off me, it's getting annoying...C7 While I may not agree with you when it comes to guns and Israel's tactics in the recent mideast mess, I totally agree with you here. How can one be bigoted when you're talking about (let me check again, oh yeah0 illegal aliens? I mean... wtf. They're breaking the laws of the land. In other countries, illegal aliens just keep quiet and work the jobs no one else wants to, and are perfectly content to do so. They know the deal. What makes the ones in America so different? I have nothing against immigrants, as long as they follow the rules everyone else does, and go through the proper procedures to enter the country. I think legal immigrants give a place flavour and variety. But yeah, illegals? Seriously, what's stopping the police/national guard from rounding up a whole load of self-proclaimed illegal aliens at their next protest and deporting them? There's a perfect reason to, they entered the country illegally! It really boggles my mind that they have the gall to actually protest from the moment that they shouldn't even be there. And the whole "go back to Europe whitey" thing is so absurd that it makes my head hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted September 1, 2006 Members Share Posted September 1, 2006 Originally posted by King Kashue The unemployment rate is lower now (4.8%) than it was at any point in 1996 (ten years ago) The Unemployment rate among whites is 4.1%, lower than the national average, and also lower than at any point in 1996... The Unemployment rate among 25-year olds or older without a highschool diploma is 7.1%, also lower than 10 years ago...For 25+ with a highschool diploma, 4.5%...For 25+ with some college or associates degree, 3.6%... For 25+ with a bachelor's degree or higher? 2.1% 2.1% for 2.5+ with a college degree...4.5% for folks who only have a highschool diploma... What jobs are disappearing here? I blame Bush! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rippin' Robin Posted September 1, 2006 Members Share Posted September 1, 2006 Originally posted by lug I blame Bush! Yeah, that's right... blame pop music for it all. That's so shallow of you!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted September 1, 2006 Members Share Posted September 1, 2006 Originally posted by Rippin' Robin Yeah, that's right... blame pop music for it all. That's so shallow of you!!! Death to false Pop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members s4001 Posted September 1, 2006 Members Share Posted September 1, 2006 Originally posted by King Kashue What jobs are disappearing here? I didn't say anything about disapearing jobs. I said deflated wages. Employment is not high wages. My argument is that importing cheap labor deflates the wage base. Our economy is still robust and people are still willing to work. I was countering the Americans-are-lazy-and-on-the-dole argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bonscottvocals Posted September 1, 2006 Members Share Posted September 1, 2006 Originally posted by Tetrapod If you don't like the police behaving in a sensible non-inflamatory manner you can get the {censored} out. That's right. What the police should have done was write a flaming letter or post on this board. Then maybe they should have said things like "That's wrong" and "you're bad" while shaking their hands. Oh, the whole shaking hands would be inflamatory. There should have been hugs and love for everyone. Maybe a little heroine, pot, and some flowers would have helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted September 1, 2006 Members Share Posted September 1, 2006 Originally posted by s4001 I didn't say anything about disapearing jobs. I said deflated wages. Employment is not high wages. My argument is that importing cheap labor deflates the wage base. Our economy is still robust and people are still willing to work. I was countering the Americans-are-lazy-and-on-the-dole argument. wages unemployment rate source: http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet?series_id=CES0500000006&data_tool=%22EaG%22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fran da Man Posted September 1, 2006 Members Share Posted September 1, 2006 Originally posted by The Ox All I know is, my neighborhood wouldn't look nearly as nice if it weren't for the illegal Mexicans. Wait till they move in with 20 to a single family home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted September 1, 2006 Members Share Posted September 1, 2006 Originally posted by s4001 I didn't say anything about disapearing jobs. I said deflated wages. Employment is not high wages. My argument is that importing cheap labor deflates the wage base. Our economy is still robust and people are still willing to work. I was countering the Americans-are-lazy-and-on-the-dole argument. Ah...Of course, I know too many UAW workers to believe that... The most powerful union in America, and they demand raises for producing substandard automobiles and their demands continue to cripple their industry... Though I'd be interested to know which of these aforementioned $4 an hour/minimum wage jobs used to be $15/hour... Picking fruit? Unskilled labouring? Dishwashing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 1, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted September 1, 2006 Originally posted by bbl My emphasis. Well, that's what they and your Congress are working on! I wasn't aware we had no immigration system in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 1, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted September 1, 2006 Originally posted by King Kashue Ah...Of course, I know too many UAW workers to believe that...The most powerful union in America, and they demand raises for producing substandard automobiles and their demands continue to cripple their industry...Though I'd be interested to know which of these aforementioned $4 an hour/minimum wage jobs used to be $15/hour...Picking fruit? Unskilled labouring? Dishwashing? Does the assembly labor cost figure as a higher percentage of the cost of a car today than in the past? That would lend insight into whether the UAW's demands are actually crippling the auto industry, or are merely trying to keep their members earning a decent wage. Jobs like this used to afford a middle-class lifestyle with one wage-earner. I'm pretty sure that's not the case any more. I'm not sure how you can toss in the "substandard automobiles" comment...as if the assembly line workers designed the car, made the parts procurement decisions, and are in charge of QA policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted September 1, 2006 Members Share Posted September 1, 2006 Originally posted by NeonVomit Nah, even the well-off people who go private have awful teeth. A topic for deeper study, methinks... Article V of the Bill of No Rights: "You do not have the right to free health care. That would be nice, but from the looks of public housing, we're just not interested in public health care." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members misterhinkydink Posted September 1, 2006 Members Share Posted September 1, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv I'm not sure how you can toss in the "substandard automobiles" comment...as if the assembly line workers designed the car, made the parts procurement decisions, and are in charge of QA policy. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members willsellout Posted September 1, 2006 Members Share Posted September 1, 2006 Did you know that after Katrina hit, they hired illegal mexicans to come in and do odd jobs? This all the while people were out of work and homeless willing to work for anything. There was a group of Katrina victims (male) that were working for approximately 2 weeks who were replaced overnight by illegal migrants shipped in from out of state. Now this is the US government that we are talking about. Just to save a few bucks. Now I will state upfront that I can't substantiate this with any proof so you can take my word for what it's worth to you..but many friends of mine (CG) volunteered to help over there and they came back with quite a few stories.I am glad I am out of California. I hate the attitude and the people (present company excluded). I think the cops did the right thing. You are trained not to make a bad situation worse, and that's what they did. They did not have the capabilities to control a crowd like that.Although I do believe if it is a federal installation and you bring the flag down and raise another country flag it could be construed as an act of war. But seeming as how these are all mexican americans it really doesn't apply. I think the Federal government should get involved and track every one of the persons involved down and arrest them and charge them with something. Not sure what, but I'm guessing there are a couple things that would apply. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted September 1, 2006 Members Share Posted September 1, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv Jobs like this used to afford a middle-class lifestyle with one wage-earner. I'm pretty sure that's not the case any more And you'd be wrong...Line jobs at one of the big three start at $60,000+ a year... I know people who work at Ford, read at a second grade level and make more than $100,000 a year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbl Posted September 1, 2006 Members Share Posted September 1, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv Does the assembly labor cost figure as a higher percentage of the cost of a car today than in the past? That would lend insight into whether the UAW's demands are actually crippling the auto industry, or are merely trying to keep their members earning a decent wage. I would suggest that health care and other pension-related benefits for their 1.5 million retirees are a higher % of the cost of car today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BEAD Posted September 1, 2006 Members Share Posted September 1, 2006 Originally posted by s4001 I have bussed dishes, been a dishwasher, short order cook, dug ditches, tended lawns, worked construction and detassled corn. Mexican. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J. Posted September 2, 2006 Members Share Posted September 2, 2006 Originally posted by King Kashue And you'd be wrong...Line jobs at one of the big three start at $60,000+ a year...I know people who work at Ford, read at a second grade level and make more than $100,000 a year... You said it man. We've got a Ford Ranger plant being phased out here in St. Paul and the paper's been full of stories the past couple of months. Most line workers, the vast majority of whom don't have anything beyond a high school education, are making $50k a year or more. Ford is having a heck of a time closing the plant down because of the UAW, and the soon-to-be layed off employees are getting some sweet deals. They're still getting full pay whilst working part-time, and when they finally get laid off for good they get either early retirement (with cushy retiree benefits) or a severance check of upwards of $30,000. Factory workers are complaining that they won't be able to earn even half of what they previously did once they're out in the rest of the private sector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J. Posted September 2, 2006 Members Share Posted September 2, 2006 Originally posted by bbl I would suggest that health care and other pension-related benefits for their 1.5 million retirees are a higher % of the cost of car today. Some dude on talk radio news said that $1500 to $2000 of every new GM car sold goes to pay for healthcare benefits. I haven't seen that stat since but it sounds plausible. My grandma has gotten wonderful insurance ever since my grandpa worked for GM decades ago. It used to be if you retired from GM, you'd get healthcare for the rest of your (and your spouse's) life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chris-dax Posted September 2, 2006 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2006 What a co-incidence...I guess it's a Mexican thing.... coming soon to your town.... MEXICO CITY (AP) -- Vicente Fox was forced to forego the last state-of-the-nation address of his presidency Friday after leftist lawmakers stormed the stage of Congress to protest disputed July 2 elections The opposition lawmakers took over the stage in Congress, waving Mexican flags and holding placards calling Fox a traitor to democracy. They ignored demands that they return to their seats Here's a link... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members s4001 Posted September 2, 2006 Members Share Posted September 2, 2006 Originally posted by King Kashue I know people who work at Ford, read at a second grade level and make more than $100,000 a year... Shoot, that's nuthin'. Most execs I've met don't read that well and make three times as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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