CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 8, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by zachoff Really, it comes down to being honest with yourself and your bandmates. Is your band really that good? Is your music really that good? Does it have good hooks? Is it palatable for a lot of people? Does your vocalist suck (like it or not, they're probably the most important piece)?From my experience, people tend to think their band is better than they really are. Rose colored glasses, man. +1 There's a local band that's not bad at all. But they keep doing songs that are way outside the singer's range, and it's embarrassing to watch. Talking to some people, I learn that he knows he can't hit the notes but thinks he's close enough and wants to keep "working on them" or something. Bad move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassgirl9 Posted December 8, 2006 Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by ryanstanley yeah, that's what im afraid of--- that we just don't have that. i love our music and i'm damn proud of it, and everybody seems to think we really have something... but it's just not catching on It's kind of like trying to get someone to fall in love with you sometimes, isn't it? What a heart wrenching business we've chosen for ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FreestyleIntruder Posted December 8, 2006 Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by bassgirl9 It's kind of like trying to get someone to fall in love with you sometimes, isn't it? If anything it's harder I've tried and I've tried and I can't make people like my band just by smiling at them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ryanstanley Posted December 8, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv If the answer is "no", then you know why your band isn't developing a following. You know what areas to improve. Whether or not you try at all depends on whether the flaws are something you can actually fix (for eaxample, if your lead singer sucks but you really like him, you may not be willing to boot him) or whether you are ok to just live with them. well the answers aren't necessarily "no". i was just making a point but i know what you mean i think i've decided our main problem has got to be the live energy thing. we're just gonna have to bear through this slump and keep a good head, so we can put on a good show when someone actually comes to watch us and the fact that we're still a little sloppy. which we're working on a lot.... we're taking a two-week break from normal songwriting to just practice and get better at what we've got--- i think it'll help a lot another problem is that our sound doesnt have much mass appeal and while people recognize that we're good at what we're doing and are pretty original, it's usually just not their thing. we play pretty damn wierd music. and this poses another problem--- im not really willing to change our sound simply because more people will like it. talk about selling out... well {censored} i guess this is just gonna take a lot of time and work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassgirl9 Posted December 8, 2006 Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv +1There's a local band that's not bad at all. But they keep doing songs that are way outside the singer's range, and it's embarrassing to watch. Talking to some people, I learn that he knows he can't hit the notes but thinks he's close enough and wants to keep "working on them" or something.Bad move. +1. People often try too hard to show off how low/high they can sing or how fast they can play. Audiences dont give a flying rhinoceros about that kind of stuff. Ryan is a good singer though, and from what I've heard he doesn't really fall into the 'not good enough of a singer' department. The talent is certainly there. I've never seen you live though, Ryan, how much flirting/ banter/ and energy do you have? It's pretty hard to sing and play bass at the same time and hop around to draw people's attention and check to see if you're in tune and see if all the other band members are ready to go and keep that onstage connection. Are you standing still a lot? Do your other band members talk to the crowd or do you have to carry the entire fronting job yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassplayer7770 Posted December 8, 2006 Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by ryanstanley well {censored} i guess this is just gonna take a lot of time and work Yeah, unless you're really lucky, it won't happen overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rikshaw Posted December 8, 2006 Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 maybe you could post a link to some of your music. we might be able to offer some suggestions after hearing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassgirl9 Posted December 8, 2006 Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by ryanstanley another problem is that our sound doesnt have much mass appeal and while people recognize that we're good at what we're doing and are pretty original, it's usually just not their thing. we play pretty damn wierd music. and this poses another problem--- im not really willing to change our sound simply because more people will like it. talk about selling out... Neither do we. We play old time rock and roll with horror inspired lyircs. Not too many people like listening to a ballad on how a guy falls in love with a corspe he comes across in a car crash. Our sound alienates the young people because it's not hip or current and the old folks all throw up at the lyrical content. We make darn sure not to hit clubs where we wont go over. Like we'd never play a golf course or a highschool, Ya know. We go to them. Punks, hot rodders, Betty Page looking gals, there's our audience. It took a while to find them, but when we did it worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tapaugh Posted December 8, 2006 Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by ryanstanley yeah, that's what im afraid of--- that we just don't have that. i love our music and i'm damn proud of it, and everybody seems to think we really have something... but it's just not catching on Musicianship is NOT the biggest part of the equasion. It's true you have to sound decent or no one will want to listen but stage presence and the crowd connection are everything. Case in point: The Rolling Stones and Yes. Now I'm not trying to anger anyone here but let's face it, the group Yes are clearly much better musicians than the any of the guys in The Rolling Stones. I have the utmost respect for The Stones. I know their music styles are different. Yet, I would guess the Rolling Stones have sold more music and have a much bigger fan base than Yes. Like it or not the Stones have a chrisma that Yes just doesn't have. Now this may not be the best argument to illustrate my point but I believe you get the idea. Musicianship by it self is not enough to fill venue week after week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ryanstanley Posted December 8, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by bassgirl9 +1. People often try too hard to show off how low/high they can sing or how fast they can play. Audiences dont give a flying rhinoceros about that kind of stuff. Ryan is a good singer though, and from what I've heard he doesn't really fall into the 'not good enough of a singer' department. The talent is certainly there. I've never seen you live though, Ryan, how much flirting/ banter/ and energy do you have? It's pretty hard to sing and play bass at the same time and hop around to draw people's attention and check to see if you're in tune and see if all the other band members are ready to go and keep that onstage connection. Are you standing still a lot? Do your other band members talk to the crowd or do you have to carry the entire fronting job yourself? yeah, that's a pretty hard thing for me to accomplish and that's why i said live energy can be an issue when i was just a singer, it was really easy to act like we were the {censored}ing {censored}. i was able to just exude confidence and fun, without much effort at all but when playing bass at the same time i just kind of have so much to think about that that almost becomes a complete non-issue it largely depends on how much i care abotu the gig, really. our first gig was pretty damn spectacular.. tight, solid playing, good performance, good mix, good energy... all because we just wanted to impress everyone so bad we spent every waking moment preparing ourselves.. plus, that was in the town where we grew up, and there was a built-in fanbase, so we knew there'd be a lot of people who actually cared but since all those kids are in high school, and we usually play in the city that we now live, on school nights, there tends to be very few people right now. and the clubs around here treat the bands like {censored}.. so it's pretty hard to keep morale up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassplayer7770 Posted December 8, 2006 Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Simply put, a band is as much about the BUSINESS as it is the MUSIC. As a business, your customers are the venue owners (those giving you the gigs) as well as the audience. You need to please them all. Try to stand out from the pack. Help people remember who you are. Try to start getting to know your local radio/television people and other local bands/musicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ryanstanley Posted December 8, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by tapaugh Musicianship is NOT the biggest part of the equasion. It's true you have to sound decent or no one will want to listen but stage presence and the crowd connection are everything. Case in point: The Rolling Stones and Yes. Now I'm not trying to anger anyone here but let's face it, the group Yes are clearly much better musicians than the any of the guys in The Rolling Stones. I have the utmost respect for The Stones. I know their music styles are different. Yet, I would guess the Rolling Stones have sold more music and have a much bigger fan base than Yes. Like it or not the Stones have a chrisma that Yes just doesn't have. Now this may not be the best argument to illustrate my point but I believe you get the idea. Musicianship by it self is not enough to fill venue week after week. yeah, we're trying our best to merge the two worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sludgebass69 Posted December 8, 2006 Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zachoff Posted December 8, 2006 Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by ryanstanley and then, what do you do, if the answer to some of those is just "no"????i see what you mean, but i see being honest with yourself as simply a way of knowing whether it's worth it to try at all. helps a lot more in the area of life than the area of musicianship Depends why you're in it. If you're in it to make a living then change the piece that's wrong. If you're in it to have fun, the only question you really need to ask yourself is 'Am I having a good time?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ryanstanley Posted December 8, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by rikshaw maybe you could post a link to some of your music. we might be able to offer some suggestions after hearing it. here you go i've posted it here before but yeah, that's us. im the singer/bass player... im working on making my voice sound more mature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JacieFB Posted December 8, 2006 Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 I like the singing...is the tempo dive on purpose in the middle of Bobby Miller? Weird changes are good...so long as they don't sound like a derailment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zachoff Posted December 8, 2006 Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by ryanstanley here you go i've posted it here before but yeah, that's us. im the singer/bass player... im working on making my voice sound more mature quick & dirty... Kamikaze Pilot - I don't like the wah thing the guitarist does at about 40 to :55. Totally doesn't fit the song IMO. The rest is good though. Maybe your vocalist can get a little harsher when it starts to rock out a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassgirl9 Posted December 8, 2006 Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by ryanstanley ... im working on making my voice sound more mature Those sound like dangerous words to me. Be yourself, dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ryanstanley Posted December 8, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by zachoff quick & dirty... Kamikaze Pilot - I don't like the wah thing the guitarist does at about 40 to :55. Totally doesn't fit the song IMO. The rest is good though. Maybe your vocalist can get a little harsher when it starts to rock out a bit. yeah he used to do that with his tone knob... i thought it sounded better that way but he's on a crybaby kick right now i do think it adds to the energy of the part though, dispite that it gets a bit cluttered... makes the build into the chorus better i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassgirl9 Posted December 8, 2006 Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by ryanstanley yeah, that's a pretty hard thing for me to accomplish and that's why i said live energy can be an issuewhen i was just a singer, it was really easy to act like we were the {censored}ing {censored}. i was able to just exude confidence and fun, without much effort at allbut when playing bass at the same time i just kind of have so much to think about that that almost becomes a complete non-issue Well I think you just pinpointed your issues then. Give the guitard a mic and the drummer a mic. Let them take some of the load off. We all share the fronting in KillBillies. Don is our lead singer/drummer and when he needs to change sticks, I'll banter a bit and flirt with the crowd. Mike is in charge of thanking the club and doing all that 'business' kind of talk because Don finds that arse kissing (as he sees it) embarrassing. You might have to shop out the bassplaying for a bit too if it really takes the energy away. (or maybe just a bit more practice, I dont know) Whatever's going to get you back to where you are (performance wise) on vocals without the bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ryanstanley Posted December 8, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by JacieFB I like the singing...is the tempo dive on purpose in the middle of Bobby Miller? Weird changes are good...so long as they don't sound like a derailment. on which part? we tend to change tempos a lot. it's not intentional, nor is it an accident..... we just kinda, write the parts, then play them in the tempo that sounds best. it never interrupts the flow of the song (if anything it makes them flow better), so we just go with that. our drummer has gotten so good at following it that we've started doing it on purpose some, though..... the audience always gets really excited about those parts! for some reason they find it incredibly impressive that we're able to turn slow jazz grooves gradually into fast punk riffs so seamlessly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ryanstanley Posted December 8, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by bassgirl9 Well I think you just pinpointed your issues then. Give the guitard a mic and the drummer a mic. Let them take some of the load off. We all share the fronting in KillBillies. Don is our lead singer/drummer and when he needs to change sticks, I'll banter a bit and flirt with the crowd. Mike is in charge of thanking the club and doing all that 'business' kind of talk because Don finds that arse kissing (as he sees it) embarrassing. You might have to shop out the bassplaying for a bit too if it really takes the energy away. (or maybe just a bit more practice, I dont know) Whatever's going to get you back to where you are (performance wise) on vocals without the bass. yeah, i think that would probably help a lot... getting the other guys some mic's.... good point! as for the performance thing, i'm just gonna have to practice a {censored}load... cause as much as i wouldn't be opposed at all to getting a new singer (i'd rather play bas than sing, for this particular band), the other bandmembers wouldn't have it. they think i was sent down from the gods or something.. i dont think they realize how good some people are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wolftopus Posted December 8, 2006 Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by bassplayer7770 Simply put, a band is as much about the BUSINESS as it is the MUSIC. As a business, your customers are the venue owners (those giving you the gigs) as well as the audience. You need to please them all. Try to stand out from the pack. Help people remember who you are. Try to start getting to know your local radio/television people and other local bands/musicians. I couldn't disagree with anything more. Please everyone? That's like selling out for free. There is definitely a business aspect to playing in a band but pleasing everyone should be the last thing on your mind. Networking is important and establishing a good relationship with other bands doesn't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassplayer7770 Posted December 8, 2006 Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by Wolftopus I couldn't disagree with anything more. Please everyone? That's like selling out for free. If you don't please the venue owners, can you expect to play at their venue again? If they're trying to screw you over, then that's a completely different issue. Simply, most venue owners will be pleased if they made more money WITH you than they would have WITHOUT you. Not every venue is right for every band... If you don't please the audience, can you expect them to start following your band? If your band isn't pleasing the audience, then perhaps you just need to find the right audience for your music, or there are some things you need to work on (better crowd interaction, etc.). Whatever... Regardless, I'm not saying you should be thinking, "Okay, how can I please everybody?" while you're playing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ryanstanley Posted December 8, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by bassplayer7770 Regardless, I'm not saying you should be thinking, "Okay, how can I please everybody?" while you're playing... wha? that's exactly what you're saying.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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