Members funkadelic musicman Posted March 19, 2007 Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 so my guitar player has been bugging me for a couple years that he wants a rhythm guitar player. we are a 3 piece "power trio" type band & he does all the lead vocals. he says it would be good for the band because he could concentrate more on singing & just solo & not play much rhythm (just to throw this in, he does a DAMN good job of covering all the guitar & lead vocals @ the same time). but from my perspective I just have no intrest in getting a rhythym guitar player because I feel it will make the band less intresting and fun for me. I really like the stripped down sound of the 3-peice band, and i like being able to be creative with overdrive & other effects to fill out the sound when he drops out of the rhythym to play his solos. & also we are a very loud band as it is and another guitar player would just make the sound louder & I would need more wattage in my amp to be heard & have somewhat of a bass presence on stage. when I look @ bands that have ryhthym guitarists I, 75% of the time think "oh, i guess its because the bass player can't handle it himself". & I'm not that kind of bass player. I have a big & aggressive sound. and i'm more than capable of carrying the ryhthm by myself. I'm also more of a fan of bands that are 3 peices (or 4 w/ a singer). & he likes more bands with 2 guitarists...a good argument I thought of was ..."would you ever think of putting a ryhthm guitar player over players like claypool or flea or tim cummerford or geddy lee?" Am I an asshole for refusing the rhythm guitarist or do you guy think I have a good point? what do you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dragon9666 Posted March 19, 2007 Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 If the singer wants to sing and just "noodle" now and then, let him.It'll still be one g-player, sort-of.I always liked the 4pc band where the singer played rythem guitar now and then for the solos and the "sprinkles" on top of the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members liko Posted March 19, 2007 Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 You shouldn't think of a rhythm guitarist as a second bassist. Some of the best bands ever to play were 5-man, with vocals/lead/rhythm/bass/drums. Hard fact of life: bass chords are for jazz. It helps to have that level of mad skillz on metal, especially power trio, but your bass, even distorted, will not have the raw dirt of a 6-string. So when your front man goes into his lead solo, you lose something in the background. Having a second guitarist who can also play leads gives your band the opportunity to have duets, call-and-answer soloing, that type of stuff. No worries about being shoved behind a chord guitarist there; you could fill your line up and be right up there with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members davis1 Posted March 19, 2007 Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 really depends. he can play less if the band plays more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jannda Posted March 19, 2007 Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 We are also a three piece but I like the Idea of a second guitard player because it helps me more than hurts because it helps me keep the rhythm better and gives us a fuller sound. Acually I would like to have a keyboard player that also could play guitard or a guitar that plays keys or both. And you might not really need that much more power because a good rhythm player just sits in the mix between you and the lead and the lead isn't playing all the time so your not really competing with both all the time and it will free you up to be able to do more within your zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members way2fat Posted March 19, 2007 Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 With two guitarists and their associated effects it takes a less is more mentality to avoid having a drone of {censored} in the background Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members funkadelic musicman Posted March 19, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 ... Having a second guitarist who can also play leads gives your band the opportunity to have duets, call-and-answer soloing, that type of stuff. No worries about being shoved behind a chord guitarist there; you could fill your line up and be right up there with them. thats the thing, if we were going to get a second guitar player I would want him to double the leads & do duets, call & answer, dueling type leads...so when both guitars would do that it would just be me and the drummer grooving. but my guitar player says that he's not really into that and he hates it when other bands do that...so i'm kind of in a slump here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members funkadelic musicman Posted March 19, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 We are also a three piece but I like the Idea of a second guitard player because it helps me more than hurts because it helps me keep the rhythm better and gives us a fuller sound. Acually I would like to have a keyboard player that also could play guitard or a guitar that plays keys or both. And you might not really need that much more power because a good rhythm player just sits in the mix between you and the lead and the lead isn't playing all the time so your not really competing with both all the time and it will free you up to be able to do more within your zone. with this, as I said was are already very loud. we really have no need to fill out our sound anymore than it is. this stems from having a drummer thats louder than 10 mashall stacks combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rikshaw Posted March 19, 2007 Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 i'm totally against it unless the 2nd guitard is the lead singer. i've been in several 3 piece bands and we've never had a problem with the mix dropping out when the guitard goes to a solo. its your band so do what figure out how important it is to you and then do what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted March 19, 2007 Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 I like bands with a keyboard player , a lead guitar player a bass player and a drummer. You can also thow in a front man singer too. If you really want a good sound ... sax, trumpet and a third horn of choice. the argument that always gets thown up is you split the money too many ways. I never bought that. Good bands that do marketable material get paid well. The power trio just sounds thin. Even the greats... like hendrix and cream sounded thin. I am old enough to have been giggin when all hendrix was still alive and kickin. Just take a look around and look at what kind of gigs and money most power trio make..... How many do you know that knock down a 100 to 200 a man? Its not the size of the band that make the paycheck ,, its the marketability and quality of the music. If u want to dump the leads .. a trio works. If you want leads dump the drummer. and run with a rhythm (keys or guitar). , lead and bass. You also need strong mutiple part vocals....Just an old geezers opinion. But this old geezer was making pretty good money playing when he was 18 years old.... more than many bands make today in the local scene. To put it into perspective ,,,,if someone were to tell you ,, i will trade you a new nitro gibson SG for doing a gig.... would you take that deal? rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members funkadelic musicman Posted March 19, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 I like bands with a keyboard player , a lead guitar player a bass player and a drummer. You can also thow in a front man singer too. If you really want a good sound ... sax, trumpet and a third horn of choice. the argument that always gets thown up is you split the money too many ways. I never bought that. Good bands that do marketable material get paid well. The power trio just sounds thin. Even the greats... like hendrix and cream sounded thin. I am old enough to have been giggin when all hendrix was still alive and kickin. Just take a look around and look at what kind of gigs and money most power trio make..... How many do you know that knock down a 100 to 200 a man? Its not the size of the band that make the paycheck ,, its the marketability and quality of the music. If u want to dump the leads .. a trio works. If you want leads dump the drummer. and run with a rhythm (keys or guitar). , lead and bass. You also need strong mutiple part vocals....Just an old geezers opinion. But this old geezer was making pretty good money playing when he was 18 years old.... more than many bands make today in the local scene. To put it into perspective ,,,,if someone were to tell you ,, i will trade you a new nitro gibson SG for doing a gig.... would you take that deal? rat I agree with you. I love to add some keys to our band. but the guitard's not into that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jim-Bass Posted March 19, 2007 Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 I like power trios ( The Police, The Jam etc..) but I've also seen some trios where bass and drums were cookin' but 1 guitar couldn't do it ....I once saw a favourite Australian band of mine live, 3 peice - they were good, but the last 2 songs were joined by a friend on 2nd guitar and they sounded SOOO much better...I think you should ask people who have seen you as to whether the band cuts it as a 3 piece - and they have to be honest. You have no worries about a rhythm guitarist being hired to beef up the rhythm section.If anything it's about the current guitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members collinwho Posted March 19, 2007 Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 My last band was 2 guitars, my current band is 1. I love 1 guitar. It allows me sooooo much more freedom on bass. With only 1 guitar, I am allowed to establish the groove with the drums. With 2, I had to work with the 2nd guitar player to establish the groove. I suppose it might have been better with a better rythym player, but it will take a lot of convincing before I will ever play with 2 guitarists again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted March 19, 2007 Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 Myth Lab is a 3 piece right now, and our guitaro sings. We're actually shopping for a singer right now, so that guitaro can play to his maximum capability without having to think about vocals at all. We have no issue filling in space during solos or when he drops out a little while he sings, because I'm a notorious overplayer that likes to throw 35 notes where 7 are appropriate. The only thing I hate worse than 2 guitars in a band I'm playing in is a keyboard player that has more than one hand. C7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grumpy_Polecat Posted March 19, 2007 Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 Based on the couple tracks I listened to I'd say you don't need one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ToeJamFootball Posted March 19, 2007 Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 Myth Lab is a 3 piece right now, and our guitaro sings. We're actually shopping for a singer right now, so that guitaro can play to his maximum capability without having to think about vocals at all. We have no issue filling in space during solos or when he drops out a little while he sings, because I'm a notorious overplayer that likes to throw 35 notes where 7 are appropriate. The only thing I hate worse than 2 guitars in a band I'm playing in is a keyboard player that has more than one hand. C7 It'sa me a Guitario!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ender_rpm Posted March 19, 2007 Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 I'm gonna chime in with Nay if all the singer wants to do is play guitar hero while #2 does all the "boring rythm stuff". In older bands where I played guitar, 2 guitars were a partnership. We'd trade leads, and work our parts in so neither of us was playing on top of the other. Aerosmith is great for that. But a guy who just sings and plays "leads" (musical masturbation) is too prissy for me. Tell him you want to add a secong bass player so all you have to do is the cool fills, and see how he reacts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L-1329 Posted March 19, 2007 Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 when I look @ bands that have ryhthym guitarists I, 75% of the time think "oh, i guess its because the bass player can't handle it himself". & I'm not that kind of bass player. I have a big & aggressive sound. and i'm more than capable of carrying the ryhthm by myself. I'm also more of a fan of bands that are 3 peices (or 4 w/ a singer). & he likes more bands with 2 guitarists...a good argument I thought of was ..."would you ever think of putting a ryhthm guitar player over players like claypool or flea or tim cummerford or geddy lee?" Wow, I couldn't disagree with these ideas any more. Having more than one guitarist is not about a bass player who "can't handle it", it's about giving a good full sound to the music, which an audience will appreciate. Your statement sounds like you'd almost rather be playing rhythm guitar yourself. Secondly, since you mentioned it, listen to any of the records of the bands you mentioned and they will have several layers of guitars to them, none are a simple power trio as recorded. Heck, even live they will have backing tracks. Most of that stuff is impossible to replicate live without at least two guitarists, and that is what the audience is going to know and want to hear. Geddy plays with more 'rhythm guitarists' than almost anyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted March 19, 2007 Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 I like the color that keys add to a band, and assuming there's a keys player, there's really no need for a 2nd guitar. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Les_Izzmor Posted March 19, 2007 Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 Wow, I couldn't disagree with these ideas any more. Having more than one guitarist is not about a bass player who "can't handle it", it's about giving a good full sound to the music, which an audience will appreciate. Your statement sounds like you'd almost rather be playing rhythm guitar yourself. Secondly, since you mentioned it, listen to any of the records of the bands you mentioned and they will have several layers of guitars to them, none are a simple power trio as recorded. Heck, even live they will have backing tracks. Most of that stuff is impossible to replicate live without at least two guitarists, and that is what the audience is going to know and want to hear. Geddy plays with more 'rhythm guitarists' than almost anyone! What he said. A rhythm guitarist is not needed if BOTH the bass player and guitar player can account for themselves. But. If one or the other thinks, or needs, a rhythm guitar player then that band needs to get one. And. If your guitar player wants one, then one is more than likely needed. And. It also depend on how your guitar player plays. There's a 3-piece band around here that is really good. Except for one thing. The guitar player plays chords during the verse and then plays single note solos as if he had a rhythm player behind him. And. The fullness of the band's sound just goes away. No amout of bass effects will account for the sudden loss of big guitar chords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B-Bottom Posted March 19, 2007 Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 If the singer wants to sing and just "noodle" now and then, let him.It'll still be one g-player, sort-of.I always liked the 4pc band where the singer played rythem guitar now and then for the solos and the "sprinkles" on top of the music. +1. I have no desire to be in another band with more than one full time guitar player. I'd opt for a keyboard player before going the full time 2 nd guitarist route Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members funkadelic musicman Posted March 19, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 Wow, I couldn't disagree with these ideas any more. Having more than one guitarist is not about a bass player who "can't handle it", it's about giving a good full sound to the music, which an audience will appreciate. Your statement sounds like you'd almost rather be playing rhythm guitar yourself. Secondly, since you mentioned it, listen to any of the records of the bands you mentioned and they will have several layers of guitars to them, none are a simple power trio as recorded. Heck, even live they will have backing tracks. Most of that stuff is impossible to replicate live without at least two guitarists, and that is what the audience is going to know and want to hear. Geddy plays with more 'rhythm guitarists' than almost anyone! when I said "can't handle it" I ment that some bass players are just more of a backround player, which is the most assuming role for a bass player. & what comes with playing in the backround is a smooth, mellow tone. as for the players that I mentioned, maybe geddy has played with rhythm guitar in the past (i dunno, im not the biggest rush fan), but can you tell me of one primus record that had any rhythm guitar on it? & the 1st RATM record had some rhythm guitar on it, but their newer ones don't and none of the audioslave records do either, except for maybe one or two instances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jnewcomer Posted March 19, 2007 Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 You forgot the "BOALG" option in your poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ender_rpm Posted March 19, 2007 Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 as for the players that I mentioned, maybe geddy has played with rhythm guitar in the past (i dunno, im not the biggest rush fan), but can you tell me of one primus record that had any rhythm guitar on it? & the 1st RATM record had some rhythm guitar on it, but their newer ones don't and none of the audioslave records do either, except for maybe one or two instances. All of them have extensive overdubs, especially Rush. Alex Lifeson, who I love as a player, overdubs each part 2-3 times with different guitars and effects. Tom Morello (RATM and Audioslave) records a rythm track under a lot of his solos, though Timmy C. usually kicks it up acouple notches to fill in space live. I still stand by my earlier assessment. Either both of the guitars have vital, important roles, or you only need one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jnewcomer Posted March 19, 2007 Members Share Posted March 19, 2007 This thread is useless without pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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