Members hawkhuff Posted August 4, 2007 Members Share Posted August 4, 2007 You're a {censored}ing idiot. It's assholes who think like you that created the Middle East terrorist situation in the first place. If anyone should be exterminated in this world it's people just like YOU. The funny thing about it all is we probably will have that holy war and guess what. We'll probably lose as long as you vote people with an IQ of 20 like Bush into office. Get ready to start bowing to mecca on your knees with an AK behind your head, buddy. You want World War III, you just may well get it. {censored}in' moron. Grow up you idiot. So, what is your solution? I see lots of hatred and insolence in your post but no offerings with what to do. C7 is right, we've been talking and negotiating and talking and negotiating and to what end? So we should (our government on both sides of the aisle) just sit here waiting for the next attack or do we take the fight to them? I say we take it to them but we haven't taken enough of it to them. The next time the {censored}es hit us with an IED we should level one of their towns. Like the perfessor said, it is the only language the 12th century idiots understand. And for all those who harbor the enemy they too must be vaporized; men women AND children. Cut 'em and gut 'em. Enough of this {censored} of fighting a 'clean' war with surgical strikes and B.S. rules that only we seems to follow. I never understood the concept of a civilized war. Especially when only one side uses them. It's just a big freakin' panyload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bholder Posted August 4, 2007 Members Share Posted August 4, 2007 Pull your head out of the sand, and take a completely honest look at history - and there's NO WAY you can conclude that anyone other than radical Islamics that have started, and declared the current holy war... - georgestrings Sorry, you're the one with your head in something, and it's not the sand, it's your ass - history clearly shows that our poor foreign policy choices and our insistence on treating people from other cultures like cattle are at least as much to blame - we started this every bit as much as the radical Islamists did. If it weren't for our meddling, there'd be a democratically elected moderate secular government in Iran right now, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 Painting all muslims as jihadists or apeasers is unfair. I'll stop painting them as appeasers and jihadists as soon as they demonstrate a true desire to clean their own house. The only reason those countries over there are making any effort at all is because the governments don't want a fight. And Pakistan is *barely* trying to catch extremists. We don't need to turn the whole place into glass; I'd rather cut them off from all aid and cash flow, and let them fight with each other until their whole society is destroyed, personally. But again, no easy solution, because they'll just blame us for their problems like their imams and warlords tell them to, and instead of rising against their real oppressors, they'll be brainwashed further into hatred. I figure since they're going to hate us no matter what, we might as well give them a legitimate reason to. The population at-large in the Arab world is too stupid to figure {censored} out on their own.C7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members walkerci Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 Sorry, you're the one with your head in something, and it's not the sand, it's your ass - history clearly shows that our poor foreign policy choices and our insistence on treating people from other cultures like cattle are at least as much to blame - we started this every bit as much as the radical Islamists did. If it weren't for our meddling, there'd be a democratically elected moderate secular government in Iran right now, for example. Really? So you think that nobody in those countries would vote for a radical theocrat that publicly proclaims he will impose religious law on the entire population? Whose head is in the sand? What good is having a democratic secular government if the first thing the people do is vote to effectively abolish it? We seem to forget that democracy only works when the majority of the people are somewhat educated, can think for themselves, and are middle class.When the poor are more than 50% of the electorate, they vote for whomever promises to take from the rich and give to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 Dealing with Muslims with force is the only way they have ever learned. Read your history. This guy has the right idea. Also, there should be no electric lights, no air travel, no cars on the road. Nothing a Muslim didn't invent. Camel travel at it's finest. They listen to force. Period. So, a culture is only allowed to use things that they themselves invented? So, no Westerners using algebra huh? That pretty much screws higher math as well...I wonder how NASA would function without that... Oh wait, modern concepts of astronomy began in the Muslim world, so I guess none of that either... Everyone also better stop reading Aristotle, since his work survived only through Islamic preservation and study...Though I don't know if the loss of proper logical dialectic will be too big of a hit to some folks... Yep, war is the answer...Oh, wait, how are we going to have a war without gunpowder? You're free to have your opinions...just don't claim your ideas are based in any manner of sound history without actually providing support... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 Yep, war is the answer...Oh, wait, how are we going to have a war without gunpowder? Plastic explosives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeonVomit Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 People who believe it's ok for innocent civilans to be killed shouldn't have any problems with the 9/11 hijackers then. Or with Hitler & co. That's just hypocritical. All's fair in love and war, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Deep Bass Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 its true...just imagine how effective it would have been if the US govt razed salt lake city and killed all the mormons when they were terrorizing settlers heading to california...and plainly force always wins over fanatics...the romans really stopped that problem in Judea by killing that troublemaker... So the government should have killed the Mormons instead of the Native Americans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bassius Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 its true...just imagine how effective it would have been if the US govt razed salt lake city and killed all the mormons when they were terrorizing settlers heading to california.... Uh they tried Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 Sorry, you're the one with your head in something, and it's not the sand, it's your ass - history clearly shows that our poor foreign policy choices and our insistence on treating people from other cultures like cattle are at least as much to blame - we started this every bit as much as the radical Islamists did. If it weren't for our meddling, there'd be a democratically elected moderate secular government in Iran right now, for example. Sorry, you're dead wrong - radical Islamics have NEVER had ANY intention of "live and let live", despite the delusions of people like you - regardless of any "meddling"... One day, you'll be forced to realize just how misguided you truly are... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members strangedogs Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 Git dem boots on boys... reading this has made me realize - WE NEED TO WADE ON IN... What's the point of waiting and being on the defensive. We already got a whole army over there... LET'S GO! p.s. can I bring an Axe & a small practice amp in my gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dragon9666 Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 That guy is awsome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hawkhuff Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 People who believe it's ok for innocent civilans to be killed shouldn't have any problems with the 9/11 hijackers then. Or with Hitler & co. That's just hypocritical. All's fair in love and war, right?I just fail to get the clean war concept or the 'surgical' air strike. They make absolutely no sense. :freak: If we had dealt with only Hitler and his armies where would we be? We had to make war on the civilian population for two reasons. One they were doing it to the allies and second the population was providing the logistics to support the war effort. General William T. Sherman said it best but I must paraphrase. War is all Hell. When a nation wages war they must do so by making war so terrible on the enemy that they shall never again wish to wage war. Paraphrased once more, if we take part in a war we must fight it to win not to spare ones' feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bob O'Brian Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 I have to disagree here. Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Afghanistan are all countries that have actively worked to put down radicals. There are several countries in south east Asia that have also worked to destroy them. Not to mention the Iraqi govenment. Right now there are only 2 middle eastern countries that we have poor relations with. Painting all muslims as jihadists or apeasers is unfair. Do you mean the current Iraqi government? Cos Saddam's regime was actually pretty good at keeping sectarianism under control. Heck, there was even a synagogue in Bagdad. The country has become far, far more religously divided since 2003. Another example of the 'wade in and kill them all' approach not really working Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bob O'Brian Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 Really? What good is having a democratic secular government if the first thing the people do is vote to effectively abolish it? We seem to forget that democracy only works when the majority of the people are somewhat educated, can think for themselves, and are middle class. When the poor are more than 50% of the electorate, they vote for whomever promises to take from the rich and give to them. Yeah, you Yanks go teach them all about democracy and how to have an informed electorate (and transparent, corruption-free elections) I remember some truly depressing stats from a while back about the number of Americans who believed various untruths- e.g. that Saddam was responsible for 9/11, that WMD had been found in Iraq already, and even a significant number of people who thought that WMD had been used against US troops during the war. I don't know where you guys get your news from but it sounds like you're being treated like mushrooms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hawkhuff Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 Yeah, you Yanks go teach them all about democracy and how to have an informed electorate (and transparent, corruption-free elections) I remember some truly depressing stats from a while back about the number of Americans who believed various untruths- e.g. that Saddam was responsible for 9/11, that WMD had been found in Iraq already, and even a significant number of people who thought that WMD had been used against US troops during the war. I don't know where you guys get your news from but it sounds like you're being treated like mushrooms. It isn't the news as such, it is the woefully inadequate 'education' system in the U.S. We have a much larger population of functional illiterates. And, they vote democrat. Go figure. I read another interesting tidbit; 45% of graduating college students believe Martin Luther King freed the slaves. It's funny but sad at the same time. Usamma has no worries, we're rotting from within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted August 5, 2007 Moderators Share Posted August 5, 2007 It isn't the news as such, it is the woefully inadequate 'education' system in the U.S. We have a much larger population of functional illiterates. And, they vote democrat. Go figure. I read another interesting tidbit; 45% of graduating college students believe Martin Luther King freed the slaves. It's funny but sad at the same time. Usamma has no worries, we're rotting from within. Sorry, hawk, but it wasn't the educational system that convinced people that Saddam Hussein was behind the 9/11 attacks, that WMD's have been found in Iraq, and that they were used against US troops. Nor was it Democrats, nor did most of the people who believed those things vote Democrat. You're way off the mark on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members walkerci Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 Yeah, you Yanks go teach them all about democracy and how to have an informed electorate (and transparent, corruption-free elections) I remember some truly depressing stats from a while back about the number of Americans who believed various untruths- e.g. that Saddam was responsible for 9/11, that WMD had been found in Iraq already, and even a significant number of people who thought that WMD had been used against US troops during the war. I don't know where you guys get your news from but it sounds like you're being treated like mushrooms. I wasn't suggesting that anyone try to teach democracy, merely that it won't work under some conditions. The voters in the USA weren't the only ones deceived by their elected officials. I love these stats. I have never been asked to participate in them and I don't know anyone who has. I guess they don't bother to poll educated, working adults. We might not give the "correct" answers. BTW, Saddam not only had weapons of mass destruction, but he used them against his own people. Repeatedly. This is a well documented fact. Do I agree with the Iraq war? No. Do I believe that Saddam trained and funded terrorists? Most likely. Do I think we should get out of Iraq? Absolutely. Do I think that the UN has a responsibility to help the Iraqi government stabilize the country? Absolutely. Do I believe that the UN will do it? Not a chance. No matter what the USA does or does not do. We always get blamed for everyone else's problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L-1329 Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 II love these stats. I have never been asked to participate in them and I don't know anyone who has. I guess they don't bother to poll educated, working adults. We might not give the "correct" answers. BTW, Saddam not only had weapons of mass destruction, but he used them against his own people. Repeatedly. This is a well documented fact. Do I agree with the Iraq war? No. Do I believe that Saddam trained and funded terrorists? Most likely. Do I think we should get out of Iraq? Absolutely. Do I think that the UN has a responsibility to help the Iraqi government stabilize the country? Absolutely. Do I believe that the UN will do it? Not a chance. No matter what the USA does or does not do. We always get blamed for everyone else's problems. Yep. Easier for the rest of the world to blame the big bad US than face their own responsibilities and failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 Yep. Easier for the rest of the world to blame the big bad US than face their own responsibilities and failures. Europeans have grown particularly adept at this. C7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 Europeans have grown particularly adept at this. C7 Yup... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bob O'Brian Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 Europeans have grown particularly adept at this. C7 Europeans are currently able to use the 'I told you so' approach, and be very smug about it. As a continent we were mostly against the war, and pretty outraged when the US told Blix to get his arse out of Iraq ASAP. We were doing our bit, but unfortunately not in a style that appeals to Americans, it seems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted August 6, 2007 Members Share Posted August 6, 2007 Nobody is suggesting otherwise. But it's pretty lame to use this old argument decades later, especially considering that at the time (1988 I believe) nobody gave a hoot what he was doing cos he was the good guy in the Iran-Iraq war. That's pretty messed up Europeans are currently able to use the 'I told you so' approach, and be very smug about it. As a continent we were mostly against the war, and pretty outraged when the US told Blix to get his arse out of Iraq ASAP. We were doing our bit, but unfortunately not in a style that appeals to Americans, it seems I agree that our past foreign policy in the middle east is partly to blame for the situation, but europeans shouldn't be so smug; it's been discovered and reported and apparently forgotten that France and Germany had current financial dealings with Hussein, and they didn't want to lose out on that money by, you know, actually doing something; they were profiting off of the UN sanctions and got away with it. I guess they can be smug about breaking rules they would hold us accountable for... I compare the european "told you so" attitude to a bunch of people standing around pointing out how long it's taking to paint a house because they aren't helping, and how much better job would be done if they were the ones painting it. From an American standpoint, it seems like our allies are doing everything they can to bring us down. What they're forgetting is that if the {censored} hits the fan, they still want to consider us their protectors, and we still will be. Unfortunately. C7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted August 6, 2007 Members Share Posted August 6, 2007 I agree that our past foreign policy in the middle east is partly to blame for the situation, but europeans shouldn't be so smug Yep, US Cold War (and after) policy is 1/3 the problem, British colonial policy is 1/3, and the development of militant Islam is 1/3... Obviously, militant islam is why certain things have become so violent, but it really is a development of the last two centuries, and US and British policy in the region created the environment that spawned and nurtured that development... The Iraq War is one small part of a much larger cluster{censored}, and there is more than enough blame to go around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted August 6, 2007 Members Share Posted August 6, 2007 The Iraq War is one small part of a much larger cluster{censored}, and there is more than enough blame to go around... No, it's all America's fault. Well, not America, just Bush. C7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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