Members DevilRaysFan Posted November 26, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 26, 2007 I'm actually hoping a new small, but powerful, hardware sequencer/pro sound module makes a comeback! One with a USB slot for thumb drives or a SD card slot. Hauling and using a laptop kind of scares me. Oh and it has to be affordable. The Yamaha unit looks nice but it's in need of a serious upgrade. Keep checking this thread -- I'll eventually get to converting data to MP3 and loading an iPOd or MP3 player...In honesty, this is the easiest....Granted, a hardware sequencer triggering multiple units allows for on-the-fly mixing, but thats really a pain in the ass to try and do live....While I agree that I like the flexibility that offers, I do think a premix live -- especially while having to concentrate on playing bass or keyboards AND singing -- is easiest. Plus already premixing in a computer leaves you almost unlimited sounds via VSTis and WAVs where a hardware sequencer is limited by the sounds available to you in your hardware sound modules/sound sources... Like I said, theres no right way or wrong way---Whatever works for you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Renfield Posted November 26, 2007 Members Share Posted November 26, 2007 Reserved Just In case I got more to say Like that'll ever happen I'm withholding my 2 cents until you are done. So far you've been very comprehensive, better than I could be, so why get in your way? After, if I have a comment to add, I'll chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted November 26, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 26, 2007 Like that'll ever happen I'm withholding my 2 cents until you are done. So far you've been very comprehensive, better than I could be, so why get in your way? After, if I have a comment to add, I'll chime in. Chime in at anytime -- like you know, theres no right way or wrong way, and Im only going over the methods that Ive used over years of trial and error...but I certainly dont claim to know everything....The only thing I ever claim as a certainty is that I am one good lookin' sumbitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Renfield Posted November 26, 2007 Members Share Posted November 26, 2007 Well, my personal hands on experience is limited, but I did have a 2 piece, bass and bass band a few years back. I programmed drums, keyboard and samples on a Mac, then dumped the MIDI file to a floppy. The other bass player sang and played bass. I played distorted bass, guitar on a few songs and turned on the sequencer. All sounds came from a Roland piano/key/synth module and the samples came from an Alesis sampler. All were run from the floppy by using an Alesis Datadisk. I owned it already as I use it for MIDI backups for all the rack gear for the bands I tech for. It was dead simple, the whole rig fit in a 4 space rackbag, sending one line to the monitor feed, one to FOH. Easy as pie and I dare say bulletproof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitzilla Posted November 26, 2007 Members Share Posted November 26, 2007 Last time I did any of that, I hauled around my buddies PC running Cakewalk triggering a Yammie TG module. Whachya wanna know? T. Alan and I did quite a bit of sequencing back in the day. We actually didn't use headphones, but created musical clicks, like a percussion parts or like synth lines that you could keep the beat with. This went through the PA and our monitors. We had an amazing drummer though. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted November 26, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 26, 2007 This thread has inspired me to revive my temporarily locked setup and fretwork threads, as well as to create a few more in depth instructional threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Westsailor Posted November 26, 2007 Members Share Posted November 26, 2007 I do think a premix live -- especially while having to concentrate on playing bass or keyboards AND singing -- is easiest. Plus already premixing in a computer leaves you almost unlimited sounds via VSTis and WAVs where a hardware sequencer is limited by the sounds available to you in your hardware sound modules/sound sources... Like I said, theres no right way or wrong way---Whatever works for you.... Exactly why I use a 'Premix Live' MP3's approach as well. We had a guitarist that was staunchly against using 'Premixed' sequences. His argument was 'It's the same thing every time! It's just too limiting'. I on the other hand see the consistency as a musical enabler. Absolutely KNOWING what is happening, going to happen musically provides the freedom to just stay in the pocket or open up, move around, explore the song (without worrying about said guitarist suddenly deciding to ad lib in the middle of a song). It's interesting too that the guitarist ultimately couldn't hang. He just wasn't disciplined enough to repeat a performance without losing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitzilla Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 I always wanted to setup a show with video projection and synced light show. This was about 14 years ago. I planned on using VHS with one of the audiotracks striped with SMPTE, which would control my computer, which would have the music and lighting midi tracks. I never put much effort into it as the video production was WAY beyond me at that point. I bet it wouldn't be that hard to pull off now with Sony Vegas, digital camcorders and plasma TVs....Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Auchenorrhyncha Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 Speaking of Sequencing and we are in a bass forum.... Squarepusher Live, Bass + Sequencers + talent + Stingray + Light show = Blah I have an audition tommorow. night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted November 27, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 27, 2007 Oh yeah, I forgot, DRF is a traitor and a cheater! any "musician" that isn't open minded enough to understand the musicality of sequencing isn't a musician at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveyDevey Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 For anyone telling you it's cheating and that it's virtually karaoke, tell them to arrange their own sequenced setlist and to come back next week and perform it. I don't think they have any idea how much work goes into setting this up to work properly... It can make for a really full sounding one or two man act as well... To me, it's about a show. If you're entertaining people, what does it matter how it's being done? As long as you're not hiding what you're doing, people can fuck off. How is something like a pre-recorded track of something that you can't play/don't have someone to play/don't have the equipment to play any different than someone learning their parts well enough that they can play them and talk, walk and goof around at the same time? If you can play a song without paying attention to it, you're just an inefficient machine at that point. I don't really have anything worthwhile to add to the thread though, unfortunately. One thing to keep in mind though, is that in recent years there have been a lot of interesting developments in software sequencers that can really add an interesting element to a live show. One good example would be Ableton Live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slapthefunkyfour Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 One good example would be Ableton Live. +1. Ableton Live kicks mucho asso. I don't even know how to describe what it can do. When I used to work for GC, I went to a clinic for Maudio and the rep did an awesome demo for that program. Amazing possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members venturawest Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 Now THAT really IS cheating. yes, but i looked cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BeeTL Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 This thread has inspired me to revive my temporarily locked setup and fretwork threads, as well as to create a few more in depth instructional threads. Your threads have inspired me to expand my thinking back to using music not just as an outlet for performance but also for creativity, whether in composition or construction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slapthefunkyfour Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 So, now I'm home from work and I can go into more detail about how my band uses backtracks. We have 2 guitarists, myself on bass, vocalist who also plays guitar and writes all the songs and who helps the drummer do all the computer based sampling and sequencing. The backtracks we use have no click track. There is a full drum track and some synth/sound effect parts. Our drummer is amazing. He can't play a fill to save his mothers life, but he plays perfectly in time. To get the backtracks, we start off with dry unmastered tracks taken from the studio when we recorded the album. We then add an intro or outro or something a little different for a live show, and then master them without guitars, bass, or vocals. We use a mini-disc recorder most of the time for live shows, but sometimes we will just play the track straight from itunes on the drummers laptop mac. The drummer just plugs his IEM into the output of the mac or the mini-disc player. We set it up so that the entire set is one complete song with a few seconds in between each song. The drummer just pushes play at the beginning, and we just follow the backtrack the entire show. We usually end with 1 or 2 songs without a backtrack. We are toying with the idea of getting rid of the backtrack and bringing another laptop with Reason or some other VST instrument software onstage to be controlled by a midi keyboard. It will be setup in a central location were we will all take turns playing it for different songs. Our 3rd album will be released within a couple weeks. It was all paid for by a Russian record label "Shadowplay Records" who will distribute it throughout Europe. Who knows, I might be on a European tour next summer!!! DRF, I'm still working on getting you some of our studio tracks so you can do a remix for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted November 27, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 27, 2007 Your threads have inspired me to expand my thinking back to using music not just as an outlet for performance but also for creativity, whether in composition or construction... I've never been more truly honored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Texas Noise Factory Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 Hey DRF! I can't think of anything good to say just yet, but I'm interested in reading different methods too as I am about to find myself doing some of this same stuff. I'm looking forward to playing with Ableton Live the closer we get to playing out with some backup.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted November 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 Hey DRF! I can't think of anything good to say just yet, but I'm interested in reading different methods too as I am about to find myself doing some of this same stuff. I'm looking forward to playing with Ableton Live the closer we get to playing out with some backup.... Its about time you showed up Im still in the middle of Post 2 but feel free to add your expertise at anytime..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted November 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 You forgot 'undeniably handsome' and has a nice hefty bulge in his shorts ( ...I should mention, the bulge is in the back of my shorts ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted November 27, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 27, 2007 I knew I forgot something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted November 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 Post 2 is up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Westsailor Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 Believe it or not, for a sound source, most modern computer's sound cards have (arguable) decent enough quality to make a lot of this work....Yes, you can change these sounds with a Sound Font Librarian and VSTi softsynths, but I will cover that in post 3...For right now, lets assume that youre playing a MIDI back and you find that the default sounds in your computer acceptable...... While certainly maybe usable, I personally didn't find the sound quality of the 'stock' MS MIDI Mapper or the GS Wavetable SW synth in my laptop (IBM Thinkpad) to be up to snuff. If you're serious about sequencing and plan to use a laptop for live performances I'd suggest looking at adding a Creative Audigy 2ZS PCMCIA Soundcard to the laptop. Not only is it capable of a much 'higher fidelity' audio out, it also enables 'soundfont bank management', something you'll eventually want to do when you dig into this (that I'm sure Stormtrooper will cover shortly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brother Mango Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 VERY VERY Cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted November 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 VERY VERY Cool! "Kiss" by Prince was fast for me to do but I know you are more interested in hearing what this will sound like with percussion, horns, etc minus drums....I'll post a different .mid example tonight...Maybe "I Wish" by Stevie Wonder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BeeTL Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 I've never been more truly honored. Aw...shucks! Really, original music is such an ambitious undertaking, and to pull it off is a nearly miraculous event. Your band is there, and that's a pretty cool thing for a single dad to be able to manage. That said, I've been close to that experience, and nothing beats it... I've got to dig up my old Joybuzzer CD and post it, then work on sequencing the songs I was the principal songwriter on and build from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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