Do you wear your seatbelt?

[SYRINGEBASS]

I don't know how it is in other states but in PA you can get a fine for not wearing a seat belt, if they pull you over first. Yet it is perfectly legal to ride a motorcycle without a helmet. I don't know....doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me:confused:

 

 

Me neither...I work at a level 1 tauma center and get to see this stuff on a daily basis. No seatbelts/no helmet can get you messed up.

[Thumper]

Three families grieve after crash kills five in Yamhill County

People recall the three children and two adults that died Tuesday when their car hit a tree on Oregon 221

Thursday, March 27, 2008

ESMERALDA BERMUDEZ

The Oregonian

 

Three families struggled to find solace on Wednesday, a day after a car crash killed three children and two women in southeast Yamhill County.

 

Some of the deaths might have been avoided had every passenger, instead of only the driver, worn a seatbelt, police said.

 

A 2-year-old boy, Sabian Martinez of McMinnville, was doing well in a Portland hospital Wednesday night. Ricardo Ramos Zolorio, 33, of Salem remained in intensive care, but stable, at OHSU Hospital, said Lt. Marlene West of the Oregon State Police.

 

Five others died at the scene of Tuesday's accident, when a speeding car crashed into a tree near the community of Hopewell. They included the driver, Lena Buchholz, 20, of McMinnville; her friend, Wendy Medina George, 27, of McMinnville; Medina George's daughters, Soraya Medina George, 7; and Saira Medina George, 5; and Zolorio's son, Richard Ramos, 7.

 

Those who knew the victims quickly responded. Mark and Penny Buchholz rushed to their young grandson's side at Legacy Emanuel Hospital & Health Center. Mark Buchholz, chief operating officer of the Monrovia nursery in Dayton, said his daughter, Lena, had a "bright, sparkling personality," but was very strong-willed and struggling to put her life together.

 

"She tried to make big statements," Mark Buchholz said.. "That's how she lived, and unfortunately, that's kind of how she died."

 

In Salem, Laura Chabolla, the mother of Richard Ramos, or "Ritchie," drove overnight from her home near Sacramento to pick up her son's body.

 

The energetic boy, known for his mischievous streak and uncompromising love for his father, had been spending two months visiting his dad in Salem, where he also was enrolled in school. He was supposed to return to his mother April 4.

 

"I'm thankful to God that he didn't die in pain, that he died quickly," Chabolla said Wednesday, adding that she and Ricardo, who share three daughters, split four months ago. Soon after he moved from California to Salem.

 

In McMinnville, Medina George's family gathered at the home of her mother, Martha George. Medina George was an outgoing homemaker "who would do anything for her children," said her sister, Johanna Cuevas.

 

"We're grieving," Cuevas said. "We're in shock, and we can't believe this has happened."

 

Medina George attended school field trips, parent-teacher conferences and routinely checked on her daughters' progress in school, said Tanya Gross, spokeswoman for the Salem-Keizer School District.

 

"The girls were delightful," Gross said. "They cared for others. The older one would always save an apple and give it to her younger sister at the end of the day."

 

Gross said the school plans to have grief counselors ready to help the girls' friends when they return from spring break on Monday.

 

Police said the stretch of Oregon 221 where the accident occurred is posted at 55 mph. They don't know how fast Lena Buchholz's Toyota Camry was going when it veered off the road and crashed into a spruce, uprooting it, but it appeared to be speeding. West said the victims died from trauma when they were thrown from the car. The investigation is continuing.

 

As the Buchholz family dealt with the loss of their daughter, they celebrated their grandson's survival. The toddler's car seat was not secured properly in the car, West said, but because he was buckled into the seat, he escaped greater injury.

 

Mark Buchholz said the child, who suffered some fractures around the jaw and the side of his face, was moving around, smiling and wanting to be held Wednesday afternoon.

 

"He's a strong, little guy," Buchholz said. "Just like his mom."

 

Esmeralda Bermudez: 503-294-5961; ebermudez@news.oregonian.com

 

 

[Craig Vecchione]

Gotta love people who can't even be bothered securing a child seat properly. Takes all of 20 seconds. Camry's have had the seat anchor points for years, making it even easier to snap a seat in.

 

And I'm sure the excuse the adults made for not wearing belts..."I'd rather be thrown clear". Yeah.

 

Let's not even go into how there were 7 people in a Camry.

[Kindness]

Gotta love people who can't even be bothered securing a child seat properly. Takes all of 20 seconds. Camry's have had the seat anchor points for years, making it even easier to snap a seat in. And I'm sure the excuse the adults made for not wearing belts..."I'd rather be thrown clear". Yeah. Let's not even go into how there were 7 people in a Camry.

 

 

It takes 20 seconds if you know what you are doing. If you spend a day at one of the baby seat checkpoints (where parents bring their cars to make sure everything is set up properly) you'll find out that the vast majority of parents that show up honestly care, try and still fail to do it correctly.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

It takes 20 seconds if you know what you are doing. If you spend a day at one of the baby seat checkpoints (where parents bring their cars to make sure everything is set up properly) you'll find out that the vast majority of parents that show up honestly care, try and still fail to do it correctly.

 

 

I'll betcha a ham sammich they hooked the top strap to the rear deck tiedown and that was that. It's the equivalent of Kramer slamming the blinds down on the "Commando 8" airconditioner in Jerry's apt....

 

Even if the seat is loose but fully tethered it's better than leaving them off completely.

[Kindness]

I'll betcha a ham sammich they hooked the top strap to the rear deck tiedown and that was that. It's the equivalent of Kramer slamming the blinds down on the "Commando 8" airconditioner in Jerry's apt.... Even if the seat is loose but fully tethered it's better than leaving them off completely.

 

 

I'm not making any predictions on what these folks did, just stating from my experience, even the simplest mechanical restraints are more than the average parent and grandparent can figure out. It's scary. However, you are right, even if it isn't perfect, most seats are being used in a way that has some benefit.

[bbl]

And if he decides to not wear a seatbelt and gets a bunch of tickets for it, and then loses his license, that's one of the consequences.

Why would that stop someone from driving? If someone's dumb enough to drive without a seatbelt, they're also dumb enough to drive without a license, insurance, corrected vision, etc.

[collinwho]

Why would that stop someone from driving? If someone's dumb enough to drive without a seatbelt, they're also dumb enough to drive without a license, insurance, corrected vision, etc.

And that certainly isn't faulty logic by any stretch of the imagination. :poke:

[bbl]

I won't argue that point. Most of my posts are not intended to be taken seriously, so they lack real value.

-1

They're most valuable.

[bbl]

And that certainly isn't faulty logic by any stretch of the imagination. :poke:

The cost of wearing a seatbelt is nothing, while the potential reward for wearing one ranges from avoiding a ticket to avoiding death.

Someone who doesn't wear a seatbelt in light of the known risk/reward lacks common sense when making that decision. It's not a stretch to suggest that that person would lack common sense when making other decisions, especially ones that relate to driving and safety.

He said he doesn't want the gov't telling him what to do. If the gov't takes his license away, you assume that he's going to respect that and not drive?

I'm not saying that he would drive without a license, but you can't assume that taking his license away would stop him from driving. That's my point (I thought it was clear) and it's not faulty logic.

[collinwho]

The cost of wearing a seatbelt is nothing, while the potential reward for wearing one ranges from avoiding a ticket to avoiding death. Someone who doesn't wear a seatbelt in light of the known risk/reward lacks common sense when making that decision. It's not a stretch to suggest that that person would lack common sense when making other decisions, especially ones that relate to driving and safety. He said he doesn't want the gov't telling him what to do. If the gov't takes his license away, you assume that he's going to respect that and not drive? I'm not saying that he would drive without a license, but you can't assume that taking his license away would stop him from driving. That's my point (I thought it was clear) and it's not faulty logic.

 

 

It is absolutely faulty logic, whether the conclusion is correct or not (I don't know with any certainty if Banta, or any other non-seatbelted driver would actually be willing to drive w/out a license).

 

A fine example is my dad. He rarely wears his seatbelt, because he was raised on the "brace myself w/ the steering wheel" mentality. Its stupid, and he knows its stupid, but it is so ingrained in him that there is nothing anyone can do to get him to regularly wear his seatbelt. If you take away his license, though, he won't drive. Hell, if his tabs expired (they never would, but theoretically), he would take my Mom's car or call someone and have them drive him to get them renewed. He still won't wear a seatbelt, though.

[80zclubkid]

Hi Mr. Wanderlusterer: your advice worked & when they cheched da coverage on my other vehicles...the agent said he will send me a rebate check for $125,'cause of over payment of last bill...so cool! thx

[L-1329]

A fine example is my dad. He rarely wears his seatbelt, because he was raised on the "brace myself w/ the steering wheel" mentality. Its stupid, and he knows its stupid, but it is so ingrained in him that there is nothing anyone can do to get him to regularly wear his seatbelt.

 

 

People like this have their reasons, but they also have a complete and total lack of understanding of the forces at work. If anyone truly understands what can and likely will happen to them in even mild crashes, the choice to buckle up or not is not even a choice, it's a given. It's not about them not letting the Man tell them how to act, it's not that they've been ingrained with other ideas like bracing the steering wheel. It's that they honestly do not understand the physics, forces, and injuries that can/will/do happen in an accident. Hauling around unsecured in an enclosed vehicle, at risk from uncountable factors, has no basis in logic or common sense, and whatever excuse is given to justify that is not a logical choice, it's an emotional choice. Using a seat belt should be a given to anyone, but sadly some people can't reason through things enough to see that.

[collinwho]

People like this have their reasons, but they also have a complete and total lack of understanding of the forces at work. If anyone truly understands what can and likely will happen to them in even mild crashes, the choice to buckle up or not is not even a choice, it's a given. It's not about them not letting the Man tell them how to act, it's not that they've been ingrained with other ideas like bracing the steering wheel. It's that they honestly do not understand the physics, forces, and injuries that can/will/do happen in an accident. Hauling around unsecured in an enclosed vehicle, at risk from uncountable factors, has no basis in logic or common sense, and whatever excuse is given to justify that is not a logical choice, it's an emotional choice. Using a seat belt should be a given to anyone, but sadly some people can't reason through things enough to see that.

 

 

When it all comes down to it, I think he is fully aware of the forces at work, and completely understands that it is an unreasonable habit. I agree it is an emotional choice, and for some crazy reason, he has chosen to not wear his seatbelt and accept the consequences. Hell, when I called him after my crash, the first thing he asked was "Were you wearing your seatbelt?"

[LanEvo]

 

There is no way to predict the position a passenger car rider will be in at the time of a crash...

Exactly. Which is part of the reason why you see so many airbag-related injuries. If people insist on using the "left hand on the top of the wheel" driving position glorified by idiotic movies (like The Fast and the Furious") then they are quite likely to break their arms, wrists, thumbs when the airbag explodes under them. Not to mention bash their own faces with their arm/hand. If they use the proper driving position we teach every n00b who ever sets foot on the track (i.e., hands at 3- and 9-o'clock always) then they generally won't have a problem.

 

Again, not trying to argue that airbags are bad. Just that you have to respect the damage they can do and adjust your driving style and body position to avoid harm.

[bbl]

It is absolutely faulty logic...

 

 

I'm not sure if you know what faulty logic is. I don't assume that taking someone's license away would stop them from driving, especially someone who's stupid enough to drive without a seatbelt. Just because your dad would doesn't mean that everyone would.

 

There's no "faulty logic" in not assuming something. I'm not going to assume that everyone is just like your dad. That would be faulty, especially in light of the facts (20% of fatalities involve at least one unlicensed driver).

[RSBro]

Yeah, because I don't renew my registration sticker or inspection.

So, one less thing.

[L-1329]

When it all comes down to it, I think he is fully aware of the forces at work, and completely understands that it is an unreasonable habit. I agree it is an emotional choice, and for some crazy reason, he has chosen to not wear his seatbelt and accept the consequences. Hell, when I called him after my crash, the first thing he asked was "Were you wearing your seatbelt?"

 

 

I feel bad for him, but I still say he doesn't understand the whole picture. You and the rest of your family are a huge part of that picture. If he doesn't value his own life, does he even have a clue to the impact he'd put on everyone else if he was hurt/killed where a belt could have saved him? A clear thinking, logical mind will always choose to wear the belt, and those who don't aren't seeing everything. The only other explanation is they really, honestly don't care if they die, and I'd hope that's not the case!