Members jpark Posted April 14, 2008 Members Share Posted April 14, 2008 If that fails (it shouldn't), just set the 112 up next to the closest stage monitor and put a small lift under the front of the cabinet to angle it towards you. A 2x4 might not be enough, but something like that should work. I like that idea however, for me personally it would take some getting used to hearing my bass in front of me instead of behind. Depending on how far back he will be standing, a 4x4 would probably be his best bet or steal some tilt back stands off of a fender guitard amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members T. Alan Smith Posted April 14, 2008 Members Share Posted April 14, 2008 Why? If each member of Jeff's band did this and it only took 3 minutes for each (unrealistically low estimate) it would add 20 minutes to the sound check. If each switch took 5 minutes you'd add 35 minutes! That's never going to happen. If you are saying Jeff should single himself out to do so, I'm even more confused. Why would the bassist be singled out, especially when the bass is not the issue in that venue. It seems like you're concerned the sound guy doesn't know what he's doing and what a country cover band should sound like. It's about showing up at a venue, and adhering to expectations required. If I was asked to set up my rig in such a manner to where it would effect my ability to perform my best(which is what I figure I was hired to do), then it's up to me to educate myself on what is going on with my sound with reference to the mix in the room. My job is to connect with my instrument(rig), my bandmates, and the audience. The better I do that, the better my chances are of being asked back and drawing more revenue for the band as well as the bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted April 14, 2008 Moderators Share Posted April 14, 2008 I like that idea however, for me personally it would take some getting used to hearing my bass in front of me instead of behind. Depending on how far back he will be standing, a 4x4 would probably be his best bet or steal some tilt back stands off of a fender guitard amp.I know what you mean about getting used to yourself. When I was in college and playing in a cover band I was used to having my cab behind me at every rehearsal and gig. Once I got into some more out of the norm situations I found myself rehearsing and gigging facing my amp or having it cross fire across the stage. It was an adjustment to make, though not major. Now the only time it is behind me facing my back is when I intend to look like a traditional rocker on stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted April 14, 2008 Moderators Share Posted April 14, 2008 My job is to connect with my instrument(rig), my bandmates, and the audience. The better I do that, the better my chances are of being asked back and drawing more revenue for the band as well as the bar. Agreed. But you won't be asked back if you annoy the patrons and sound guy by extending the sound check for 30 minutes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J. Posted April 14, 2008 Members Share Posted April 14, 2008 Anyone that has ever run bar sound knows that stage volume (especially from guitards with ego problems, though not exclusively) is a HUGE issue. A lot of bands have no concept of 'turning down,' and will actually get offended if you ask. Of course the beaming, highly directional sound of a sealed 4x12 guitar cabinet coming off the stage at a higher level than the FOH completely ruins the sound. I've done side fill a lot and I like it, although rear-facing amps isn't as common. Still, the bar cares about its bottom line, period. They want to make money, and will do whatever necessary to facilitate it. Sometimes I wish the places I went to were more strict about stage volume, because I've seen far to many FOH images ruined by out-of-control backline SPL. But for $1000 gig, in this day and age, when the era of the local live band has been on the decline for the past 20 years? Heck, I'd do whatever they wanted for that kind of money. I wonder how the bar plans to collect on bands that get booted from the roster, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members T. Alan Smith Posted April 14, 2008 Members Share Posted April 14, 2008 I just don't see how moving a cabinet from a few feet behind you to a few feet in front of you (or to your side) is of any issue.You and I have both played in enough different places to know it all depends on the venue. Example- a few feet could mean tripping over something mid-performance. Sure, it'd give the audience something to remember... It's just as much about being comfortable on stage in order to perform your best, as it is about making it comfortable for the patrons. Agreed. But you won't be asked back if you annoy the patrons and sound guy by extending the sound check for 30 minutes......which I addressed already...twice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lokidecat Posted April 14, 2008 Members Share Posted April 14, 2008 Go acoustic an have the singer whisper one night. Civil disobedience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JeffBass Posted April 14, 2008 Members Share Posted April 14, 2008 Chamber's makes some valid points and so do the others. There are unreasonable (and stupid) sound guys out there, this cannot be argued. When my amp is so low that I can't even hear myself standing right in front of it, I mean come on! I can't think of a situation where all the players need to be turned down less than the drummers own acoustic level, especially in a big joint that holds 400 people. Any tough room will also have a problem if the mains are loud enough to rock 400 people, reasonable stage volume will not make a bit of difference. I said reasonable, not loud. Just loud enough. It's all up to the band of course. If the money's good and they can put up with the rules (and the jerk) then it's their call. The fact that T-Broom wasn't given any options tells me the guy is a bit unreasonable. I also sense T-Broom was frustrated with the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jackcheez Posted April 14, 2008 Members Share Posted April 14, 2008 All I said was meet me in the middle. Not an unreasonable request.Some of those guys consider that unreasonable. They want complete control. They can completely blow me. There's a casino out here that pays decent (1250 per night) for three nighters. Funkee1 knows the place. We gave it our best. Drums behind plexiglass, bass sounds like ass through the monitors. I ended up telling the guy to just take it out of the monitors. We won't go back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eric.chambers Posted April 14, 2008 Members Share Posted April 14, 2008 Thanks Jeff. I was startin to feel like I was all alone here! I've been doin this long enough to know better than to piss off the sound guy, but you gotta be able to work with me a little on the stage volume. A good sound guy can make a band sound good and keep everybody happy too. Compromise fellas. That's all. compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted April 14, 2008 Moderators Share Posted April 14, 2008 The fact that T-Broom wasn't given any options tells me the guy is a bit unreasonable. I also sense T-Broom was frustrated with the guy. He wasn't given options? "Don't point your cab directly in the face of the people sitting a few feet in front of the stage" is hardly an odd request, especially in a venue where many (most?) of the people are not there specifically to see the band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members T. Alan Smith Posted April 14, 2008 Members Share Posted April 14, 2008 Thanks Jeff. I was startin to feel like I was all alone here! I've been doin this long enough to know better than to piss off the sound guy, but you gotta be able to work with me a little on the stage volume. A good sound guy can make a band sound good and keep everybody happy too. Compromise fellas. That's all. compromise. Compromise certainly sounds like the right frame of mind. Unfortunately, it's the customer's way or the highway. I have to deal with this every day. It does not seem fair, but if you won't take their business, someone else will stoop to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JeffBass Posted April 14, 2008 Members Share Posted April 14, 2008 Of course.No one told Jeff or his bandmates to turn down, just to point their cabinets the other direction. In order to control the diverse bands that frequent the stage (most of which have no concept of the FOH issues), there is a standing house order to point the cabinets at the musicians, or at least away from the patrons.That isn't even suggested anywhere in the thread.Of course.He wasn't given options? "Don't point your cab directly in the face of the people sitting a few feet in front of the stage" is hardly an odd request, especially in a venue where many (most?) of the people are not there specifically to see the band. Most places that big have an open, good size floor in front of the stage and tables back and around the sides. I haven't been to 115 Bourbon street but I know they sign some big acts. I have a feeling that the sound engineer's rules may change for acts who consistantly bring in the large crowds also, kinda like Tom Glavine always getting the outside corner! Anyway, every situation is different so it's good to have gear that enables you to adjust. I try to reason with the sound man and if that doesn't work I just put up with it. The band can decide later if it's worth it. I just saw Hi Infidelity recently (great band) and the guitar player aimed his Bogner (nice amp) sideways. I can see the benefit. Less feedback, band hears him better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J. Posted April 14, 2008 Members Share Posted April 14, 2008 The fact that T-Broom wasn't given any options tells me the guy is a bit unreasonable. I also sense T-Broom was frustrated with the guy. If I remember correctly, since I'm too lazy to go back and reread the posts, the soundguy apologized for the stringent rules but had to enforce them because he was under the thumb of the owners. That's understandable. The owners make the rules. I could guess that they heard somewhere that backward-facing amps held down on stage volume, and decided to enforce it as an ironclad rule due to stage problems they'd had from bands in the past, but who knows? I'm sure the soundguy is fully aware that he can get great sound from amps positioned as sidefill and monitors (and even as regular backline), but sometimes it's easier to have a blanket set of regulations that covers everyone. When in Rome... Hey Thunderbroom, why don't you bring out the burdizzos ultralight 12+galaxy cab? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted April 15, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 15, 2008 Last night I hooked up the Neopak to my Peavey PR12. It actually sounded decent to me. I couldn't crank it though as I didn't want to disturb my family. I can when I get home today. I do think I'd want to angle it more than the built-in angle of the PR12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Perfessor Posted April 15, 2008 Members Share Posted April 15, 2008 Boy are those people dumb. Bass is omnidirectional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L. Ron Hoover Posted April 15, 2008 Members Share Posted April 15, 2008 Boy are those people dumb. Bass is omnidirectional. That's what I was thinking..... I'm all for being co-operative with sound people (being one myself) and venue management, but I'm not sure requesting that you point amps at the back wall was particularly well thought out. Especially bass amps, where facing them backwards does practically nothing to alleviate the typical bass problem frequency range for FOH and makes it even more difficult to hear yourself, because the midrange that is so important for being able to hear yourself is being diffused off the back wall. It makes more sense in terms of guitar amps which are quite directional. Sidewashing or using a wedge-type setup, pointing back at you makes a lot more sense, though. TB, you and the rest of your band are to be commended for being agreeable to trying something like that. It wouldn't work with either of my bands. We'd have to walk. Luckily, we're in a position where we're not relying on gigs to make a living, so we can be a bit choosy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted April 15, 2008 Moderators Share Posted April 15, 2008 Boy are those people dumb. Bass is omnidirectional. 1. The directionality of sound is dictated by the size of the source compared to the wavelength of the sound. 2. The rule applies to all amps om stage and was not necessitated by problems with bass amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Perfessor Posted April 16, 2008 Members Share Posted April 16, 2008 1. The directionality of sound is dictated by the size of the source compared to the wavelength of the sound.2. The rule applies to all amps om stage and was not necessitated by problems with bass amps. But he made him turn a bass amp around. Bass off a wall has a large enough wavelength don't ya think? That's why in days of old they put the standup on a platform near a wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted April 16, 2008 Members Share Posted April 16, 2008 Last night I hooked up the Neopak to my Peavey PR12. It actually sounded decent to me. I couldn't crank it though as I didn't want to disturb my family. I can when I get home today. I do think I'd want to angle it more than the built-in angle of the PR12. Peavey makes brackets that screw right into those boxes so they can serve as monitors. I made some for mine out of particle board. I can mail you one, if you'd like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted April 16, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2008 Peavey makes brackets that screw right into those boxes so they can serve as monitors.I made some for mine out of particle board. I can mail you one, if you'd like. That would be cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted April 16, 2008 Members Share Posted April 16, 2008 That would be cool! Consider it done. I made 4 of them, but you really only need one per box, so I have two spares in my garage. I'll paint one for you and round up a couple of bolts and ship it out to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted April 16, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2008 Consider it done. I made 4 of them, but you really only need one per box, so I have two spares in my garage. I'll paint one for you and round up a couple of bolts and ship it out to you. We normally use the PR12's as monitors when we have to use our PA. We've just been propping them up on something at gigs. And related back to this thread... I just sent the booker for the venue an email seeking clarification of the stage setup for future reference. I expressed my concerns about having my amp facing the rear of the stage but understand and totally agree with their stage volume concerns. I asked if the rear facing cabs is not negotiable. If it is negotiable, I offered the wedge suggestion as an alternative. If if is not negotiable, I'm likely going to pick up an IEM for myself. I just want to be covered either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted April 16, 2008 Members Share Posted April 16, 2008 We also use PR12s as monitors. With the little stands I cut, they work perfectly. I IEMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted April 16, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2008 We also use PR12s as monitors. With the little stands I cut, they work perfectly. I IEMs. I may actually get the IEM anyway. You've got the Galaxies, right?What's the basic setup for those, as in, how are they tied into your amp? Is this something I just setup with a feed from my amp on stage? I'm assuming it's wireless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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