Bass tone and power

[samson3382]

Ok so iv'e been playing an old 01 ampeg american made b2r 350 watts @ 4 ohms. i use a alesis 3630 compressor and a beringer ultragain pro tube preamp in the effects loop in that order. i run it through a genz benz 2x10 and an swr 1x15. I play an 07 ibanez soundgear sr505 with active bartolini pickups. The tone is awsome. i can get a great punchy but full deepsound, clear, cuts right through the mix sound. Sounds great for recording too. It has to run just on the edge, limiting quite a bit to sound its best. The volume is very impressive-for 350 watts. I've played with out being mixed into the P.A., on my own when everybody else mixed, and been heard just fine. But its still only 350 watts. In many situations it has not been enough or i've had to sacrifice bass for volume and been in fear of damage. I wanted to step it up but i don't want to loose that sound. I recently ordered an ampeg svt6 pro 1100 watts @ 4 ohms, 4 tubes in preamp and 2 in the driver stager with mosfet solid state power at the end. thing had a horrible buzz no matter what i did if i was within 5 feet of the amp. i could definetly feel the extra power, but was not impressed and i am returning it promplty. Does anyone have any suggestions on a bass amp that might give me a similar tone but with much more than 350 watts? and around the $1100 range?

[Kindness]

With my suggestions you will need to play a little to get the same tone, but I can personally vouch that any of these will be good amps for you:

 

Genz Benz GBE750

Mesa/Boogie M6

Gallien-Krueger 1001RB-II

Markbass Little Mark II

[LanEvo]

If you like the basic Ampeg tone but simply need more power, I would get an Ampeg tube preamp and stick it in front of whatever solid-state power amp you like.

 

Personally, I have used the Ampeg SVP-Pro and was very impressed. They sold for around $500 new. You should be able to find a used one for around half that price.

 

 

There's another model called the Ampeg SVP-BSP, which is Billy Sheehan's signature model. My understanding is that it's pretty similar to the SVP-Pro in basic tone, but adds some overdrive and high-gain sounds. The price was similar to an SVP-Pro when new, but I suspect they're worth more on the used market today. Figure $300-400 (ballpark).

[Rocknrumble]

Won't that overload the power amp?

[LanEvo]

 

Won't that overload the power amp?

I'm not sure I understand your question. The Ampeg SVP-Pro (or SVP-BSP) is just a preamp. You can connect it to any power amp you like.

 

If you need 200 watts, connect it to a 200W power amp. Need 1000 watts? Connect it to a 1000W power amp.

 

I'm assuming the original poster is prepared to get rid of his 350W Ampeg B2R head and replace it with something more powerful. I think an SVP-Pro should capture the B2R tone about as well as any preamp can. Then he can buy whatever power amp he needs to get the kind of wattage he's looking for.

[Kindness]

LanEvo's suggestion is a good one.

[T. Alan Smith]

I'm amazed you got such good tone. You must have excellent touch.

[jackcheez]

Replace that 2 X 10 with a 4 X 10 if you want to put out some big noise.

[LanEvo]

 

I'm amazed you got such good tone.

That's why I suggested the SVP-BSP preamp.

 

He says he's running an Alesis 3630 (a pretty low-end compressor) and a Behringer Ultragain Pro (perhaps the worst mic preamp on the market) in the effects loop of his Ampeg B2R head. So, I'm assuming he's looking for a good overdriven rock tone.

 

The SVP-BSP preamp will give you very smooth and musical overdrive and distortion. I guarantee the overdrive tone will be a million times better than anything you could possibly get out of that Behringer mic preamp. The SVP-BSP also comes with an on-board compressor. While it might not be the best compressor in the world, it's unlikely to be any worse than the Alesis 3630.

 

Personally, I would sell the B2R head and both rack-mount effects. That should net you more than enough for a used BSP preamp. Any money left over goes towards the solid-state power amp of your choice. I honestly don't think any solid-state amp is significantly better or worse than any other in terms of tone. It's just a matter of noise, wattage, and reliability under stage conditions. I'd look for a used power amp from Peavey, Crown, Crest, Carvin, QSC, Yamaha, etc.

[jackcheez]

That's why I suggested the SVP-BSP preamp. He says he's running an Alesis 3630 (a pretty low-end compressor) and a Behringer Ultragain Pro (perhaps the worst mic preamp on the market) in the effects loop of his Ampeg B2R head. So, I'm assuming he's looking for a good overdriven rock tone.

There are worse preamps for more money.

[78pbass]

Emre,

Wouldnt he be just as good to just add a poweramp out of the effects loop to add more HP? with the extra saved, he could add a cabinet, right?

[rpsands]

GBE 750 or Gk 1001 RB II, imho.

 

A Gk 1001 RB II with the boost cranked way up does a mean, mean rock tone.

[LanEvo]

 

Emre, Wouldnt he be just as good to just add a poweramp out of the effects loop to add more HP? with the extra saved, he could add a cabinet, right?

I guess so. I just like to keep things simple. Why stick a mic preamp and compressor into the effects loop of your head when you can just get something like the BSP that will do it all (and do it better) in a single rackspace? And why carry around the dead weight of the power-amp section on that B2R head if you don't plan to use it?

 

I say get rid of everything and start from scratch. He's looking for an Ampeg tone with overdrive on demand. In that case, an SVP-BSP can take the place of the pre-amp section of the B2R, the Behringer mic pre, and the Alesis compressor. And I'll take just 1 rackspace instead of 4. Then send the output into whatever power-amp will give you that watts you need/want.

[78pbass]

 

I guess so. I just like to keep things simple. Why stick a mic preamp and compressor into the effects loop of your head when you can just get something like the BSP that will do it all (and do it better ) in a single rackspace? And why carry around the dead weight of the power-amp section on that B2R head if you don't plan to use it? I say get rid of everything and start from scratch. He's looking for an Ampeg tone with overdrive on demand. In that case, an SVP-BSP can take the place of the pre-amp section of the B2R, the Behringer mic pre, and the Alesis compressor. And I'll take just 1 rackspace instead of 4. Then send the output into whatever power-amp will give you that watts you need/want.

 

 

All good points, IMO.

 

I like keeping gear around for later purposes, so the Alesis and Behringer would get shelved for another purpose later on if it were me. But your points are all sound.

[ToeJamFootball]

I'm amazed you got such good tone. You must have excellent touch.

 

Tone is in the fingers, remember!!?!?

 

[samson3382]

this is the first time i have ever tried one of these forums and this is great. got some very usefull info and suggestions. I forgot to mention in my originpost that i use elixir coated strings, don't know how well they stack up but they seem great and have a very long life for me. so when i returned the svt6pro(yuck, think it was a dud mabey) i was able to exchange it for the genz benz GBE1200! For the same price! haven't got it yet but i've loved every genz benz amp ive ever played and it has the tube & FET preamps that you can switch or blend. I have high hopes but we'll see. I considered a preamp power amp combo, especially because I already have a crown xls402D, but my cabs are 8 ohms each, that amp cant run bridged @ 4, and in stereo its 300 watts per channel @ 8 ohms per channel. I know that doubling your watts barely increases decibles, so i need more than 600 to hear a big difference from 350, Right? well if I wanted to get crazy i could run that power amp off my D.I. bridged @ 8 ohms (900 watts) and run another big cab. eh, overkill. The new genz benz im getting is 1000 @ 4 ohms or 1200 @ 2. I definetly need a speaker upgrade, as I said in my original post i have a genz benz 2x10 xb rated @ 250 watts and an swr 1x15 200 watts. i was thinking about just getting high end high wattage replacement speakers for each cab, enough to bring each one to at least 500 watts power handling. would that sound good/loud? or mabey get a whole new high quality 4x10 and then just get a high power replacement 15 for the SWR cab? or start from scratch altogether. BTW no 8x10s for me. might consider a pair of 4x10s. i like the lows of the 15, and that swr cab sounds pretty good...

[Rocknrumble]

I'm not sure I understand your question. The Ampeg SVP-Pro (or SVP-BSP) is just a preamp. You can connect it to any power amp you like. If you need 200 watts, connect it to a 200W power amp. Need 1000 watts? Connect it to a 1000W power amp. I'm assuming the original poster is prepared to get rid of his 350W Ampeg B2R head and replace it with something more powerful. I think an SVP-Pro should capture the B2R tone about as well as any preamp can. Then he can buy whatever power amp he needs to get the kind of wattage he's looking for.

 

I was having a brain fart when I read your suggestion. I thought you meant that the SVP would give him more power even though I know perfectly well the power comes from the power amp.

[Ender_rpm]

 

this is the first time i have ever tried one of these forums and this is great. got some very usefull info and suggestions.... snip

 

 

Form your OP and this one, it appears you need more HEADROOM, not volume per se, is this correct? By that I mean your current set up has enough volume for most situations, but ometimes you need a little bit more to keep the tone in your preferred zone? Going from 350 -> 600 watts @ 300 per cab, possibly with a crossover to run the cabs as a woofer/mids arrangement would likely be just fine. Not sure how loud your band is, but that way you can keep a solid low end and tweak the mids/highs for cut.

[T. Alan Smith]

 

this is the first time i have ever tried one of these forums and this is great. got some very usefull info and suggestions. I forgot to mention in my originpost that i use elixir coated strings, don't know how well they stack up but they seem great and have a very long life for me. so when i returned the svt6pro(yuck, think it was a dud mabey) i was able to exchange it for the genz benz GBE1200! For the same price! haven't got it yet but i've loved every genz benz amp ive ever played and it has the tube & FET preamps that you can switch or blend. I have high hopes but we'll see. I considered a preamp power amp combo, especially because I already have a crown xls402D, but my cabs are 8 ohms each, that amp cant run bridged @ 4, and in stereo its 300 watts per channel @ 8 ohms per channel. I know that doubling your watts barely increases decibles, so i need more than 600 to hear a big difference from 350, Right? well if I wanted to get crazy i could run that power amp off my D.I. bridged @ 8 ohms (900 watts) and run another big cab. eh, overkill. The new genz benz im getting is 1000 @ 4 ohms or 1200 @ 2. I definetly need a speaker upgrade, as I said in my original post i have a genz benz 2x10 xb rated @ 250 watts and an swr 1x15 200 watts. i was thinking about just getting high end high wattage replacement speakers for each cab, enough to bring each one to at least 500 watts power handling. would that sound good/loud? or mabey get a whole new high quality 4x10 and then just get a high power replacement 15 for the SWR cab? or start from scratch altogether. BTW no 8x10s for me. might consider a pair of 4x10s. i like the lows of the 15, and that swr cab sounds pretty good...

 

 

What arenas/stadiums are you playing that require this?

[rpsands]

I would suggest strongly that you get two Genz Neox 212Ts. You can't do much better than a pair of those for portability and awesome sound.

 

If you're looking to go cheaper, try Dr. Bass or Low Down Sound.

 

There is no reason to buy basically any 4x10 on the market - they are all garbage excepting the very best (Acme, Berg, Aguilar). Even the berg/aggy ones leave something to be desired in terms of low end, IMHO. The 4x10 driver configuration is just kind of crappy.

 

The vertical aligned Genz 212s are some of the better designed cabs on the market. However, overall, I think you might do slightly better with a pair of 15/6s from LDS or Drb If you can handle the wait and the ordering/design process.