Mother kills 3 1/2 week old baby because the devil told her to...

[bassthumpintwin]

F'ed up people have kids , sadly no matter how many steps you take or don't some people slip through cracks. You though can take allot of babies away from perfectly fine parents in the process. You walk a fine line when talking about removing babies from parents , that mom in the article asked for help and the family and people around her dismissed her. They all will have to live with this and the what if's for the rest of their lives. We had our youngest at home because our first was treated against our wishes , I was threatened with her being taken away etc... FOR NO REASON. I have no mental history. Just I didn't agree with what they wanted to do in our child's "best interest". Predicting who actually will hurt their kids is vary fine line. What people feel is hurting kids to justify being removed is a matter of perspective until the line is truly crossed in this unspeakable way. How do you regulate and enforce this?

 

 

I definitely see your point. Heck, there are plenty of parents out there having kids for all the wrong reasons, physicaly, sexually, mentally abusing them on a continual basis, practicing poor parenting, etc...and all too often it goes unnoticed or nobody gives it a second thought.

Some people just make poor decisions, despite having all of the love, affection, and good intentions possible for their kids, and people jump all over them.

Sometimes, I'd say it's not even about poor decisions. Things happen sometimes, and that's all you can say about it.

 

It's an imperfect system to say the least.

 

There's no easy or simple way to regulate/enforce these kinds of things, especially when you consider how different or unique every situation can be. The best thing we can do is to try our best to keep a vigilant eye on things, make the educated decisions when they need to be made. And if it takes erring on the side of caution, the just might be what has to be done.

 

Unfortunately, despite what I would consider to be adequate information and ample opportunity to make a wise or educated decision in the interest of this baby, the ball was dropped.

 

Now there is little more anyone can do but try to learn from this mistake.

 

As for what should be done with the mother, I'm not a judge. That being said, she's probably NOT the only one who should be held to some degree of accountability here.

[greenshag]

http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/parenting/mom-refuses-c-section-baby-taken-away-492112/ here's one article about the c-section mom I was mentioning. Looks like she had some "mental" history as well. Still, it looks like they would have taken the baby regardless of mental history. What a world.

doctors go the c-section route far too often in this country. No actual facts, but I believe I remember reading it is up to something like 40-50% of all births in this country are done c-section style.

[Goofball Jones]

I don't really get why these kinds of things always have to get twisted and turned into some attack against God, scriputures, or Christians.

 

To some, insanity and religious beliefs go hand in hand. Don't take it personally. I know, it's hard not to take personally, but arguing about it is like beating your head against a wall. Just do what Jesus advised and turn the other cheek, and then just try to ignore it.

 

And this is coming from a total non-believer.

[faileddrummer]

Why would you kill your baby because somebody TOLD you to? I mean, it shouldn't matter if it's Satan, a real person, or the freakin easter bunny. WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE? This is a sick world we live in. And the who eating thing really blows my mind. I don't even know what to say about this.

1) A TEXAS "mother."
2) She believes in the devil, so, she's religious (this is a rarity in Texas I've been told )
3) She's a {censored}ing idiot.
4) Don't worry, she's probably pro life.

[P1gg1e]

doctors go the c-section route far too often in this country. No actual facts, but I believe I remember reading it is up to something like 40-50% of all births in this country are done c-section style.

I agree. Sadly was just informed my SIL ( who has 2 other kids that she birthed with relative ease.) will be induced early because of a "big" baby ( 38 weeks) and no matter if she is progressing that day at 6pm she will have a c-section...wonder what would happen if she refused..all this because the baby may be 8 lbs

If its 6lb, me and the Dr. might have words in the hall ...but this is OT

[hawkhuff]

doctors go the c-section route far too often in this country. No actual facts, but I believe I remember reading it is up to something like 40-50% of all births in this country are done c-section style.

I don't recall the actual percentages but a lot of this is CYA medicine. OB-GYN docs have some of the highest malpractice premiums.

 

I worked for OB-GYN docs for 5 years as a surgical assistant and most agreed they have much more control over the birthing process using the Caesarian. Hence the high numbers. Sad but true.

[hawkhuff]

F'ed up people have kids , sadly no matter how many steps you take or don't some people slip through cracks. You though can take allot of babies away from perfectly fine parents in the process. You walk a fine line when talking about removing babies from parents , that mom in the article asked for help and the family and people around her dismissed her. They all will have to live with this and the what if's for the rest of their lives. We had our youngest at home because our first was treated against our wishes , I was threatened with her being taken away etc... FOR NO REASON. I have no mental history. Just I didn't agree with what they wanted to do in our child's "best interest". Predicting who actually will hurt their kids is vary fine line. What people feel is hurting kids to justify being removed is a matter of perspective until the line is truly crossed in this unspeakable way. How do you regulate and enforce this?

I think you're 100% correct but you're dancing around the word. It's government.

[P1gg1e]

I don't recall the actual percentages but a lot of this is CYA medicine. OB-GYN docs have some of the highest malpractice premiums. I worked for OB-GYN docs for 5 years as a surgical assistant and most agreed they have much more control over the birthing process using the Caesarian. Hence the high numbers. Sad but true.

 

 

Mostly because the infant death rate is lower then the maternal that route , people are less likely to sue when the mother dies then the baby... even if it wasn't medically needed.

[King Kashue]

So you're suggesting that it's legal to abort a full term baby on the mother's whim? I'd like to see some actual evidence that this is the case anywhere in the US or the rest of the western world for that matter.

 

 

Ralph is incorrect. Elective abortions can only be obtained until the 24th week, at which point the medical standards consider the fetus to be "viable". Only a medical reason will suffice beyond that point, and no doctor in the US (even those who are willing to provide late-term abortions) will perform one past viability, unless there is a compelling medical reason.

 

 

You certainly can't do it in Canada and our abortion laws are relatively lax.

 

 

That is entirely incorrect.

 

Canada is one of the few countries with absolutely no National legal restrictions on abortion. (See Jan. 28, 1988 entry).

 

The reason that third trimester abortions don't often happen in Canada is that there currently aren't many (any?) doctors in the country who are willing to perform the procedure. As of a few years ago, Quebec was looking to hire a doctor to perform them.

 

They are however entirely legal, the situation is such though that, again, no doctor would perform them.

[P1gg1e]

I think you're 100% correct but you're dancing around the word. It's government.

 

 

Federal Government! Even some states though. Its amazing how much power Dr's , state and the Fed have over just this one subject.

[citizenralph]

My apologies. It was early and I was cracky. I didn't mean that you are nutty/ill informed. Where I come from, aborting a baby carried to full term for no real reason would make the news. Therefore, I saw your statement as a radical exaggeration. Still, I believe there is a difference between this and partial birth abortion. Maybe not much, but it's just my opinion.

 

 

Reason was never mentioned, only the legality of the procedure.

[citizenralph]

Ralph is incorrect. Elective abortions can only be obtained until the 24th week, at which point the medical standards consider the fetus to be "viable". Only a medical reason will suffice beyond that point, and no doctor in the US (even those who are willing to provide late-term abortions) will perform one past viability, unless there is a compelling medical reason. .

 

 

What you're saying is that abortion is legal through the entire gestation given a compelling medical reason. So, how am I wrong?

[King Kashue]

Doesn't matter the reason

 

 

The reason absolutely does matter. The only way that a mother can procure a third trimester abortion is if the fetus has a significant chance of causing her death.

 

You're holding up an example that occurs once in a million pregnancies, about which a massive number of laws and ethical rules apply, and you're using it as an example about how people in general don't care about the ethics of abortion, when in fact, the multitude of regulations regarding the procedure and the exacting medical standards required before it's permitted clearly demonstrate otherwise.

[Xuf]

So I'm the only one here who agrees that what this crazy bitch did to her baby was incredibly metal??? :confused:

[lokidecat]

 

-1... You do that kind of {censored} to a baby and I don't care who you are or what's going on in your head. You don't deserve to live anymore.

 

 

+1 to your -1 (err.. wait..)

 

If you're that {censored}ed up, what the hell are you doing having children. I love how procreation is deemed a "right." If you can't handle reality, you are an unfit parent and shouldn't be allowed to breed.

 

Women like her are almost a poster child for positive Eugenics

[NeonVomit]

I think late-term abortions are only performed in extreme circumstances.

If you've waited that long to have an abortion, you may as well just have the kid and give it up for adoption.

Edit: what KK wrote.

Speaking of not being allowed to breed...

Woman who has had 13 children taken into care is pregnant with 14th Theresa Winters, a woman who has already had 13 babies taken into care, is pregnant with her 14th child - and says she will keep on trying for more until she is allowed to keep one. Miss Winters, 36, has not been able to keep any of her offspring beyond the age of two, but insists she deserves a second chance at being a mother. She admits that social services had made the right decision in removing her first 13 children because she had neglected them, but claims to have "calmed down" now. Miss Winters, who was taken into care herself as a teenager, says social services should be helping her and the father of 11 of her children, Tony Housden, to achieve their "dream" of becoming a family. She told the Daily Mail: "We feel like social services are treating us like murderers when we haven't done anything. "All we want to do is be a family and look after our children, it is very upsetting. "We want help from social services, but they won't help us." However, her sister has said she is a "baby factory" who has vowed to keep getting pregnant. Louise Walls, 37, a mother of three from Northampton, said: "Whenever I have asked her why she keeps getting pregnant when she knows the baby will be taken off her she says 'I don't give a ----', I just want the government to pay for them. "It's pure spite. As long as she is not allowed to keep a child her attitude seems to be that she will get her own back by making the authorities pay to look after them and bring them up. "She has told me she will only stop getting pregnant the day they stop taking her babies off her." Miss Winters, who is 25 weeks into her 14th pregnancy, had her first child aged 19 with ex-husband Wayne Redding. Their daughter was taken away when she reached the age of two after the couple were accused of neglect. They went on to have a second child, who was also put into care. Miss Winters divorced Mr Redding, who has since died, after she began her relationship with Mr Housden, who had been a lodger in their home. The new couple, from Luton, Bedfordshire, then went on to have another 11 children. Four had a rare degenerative condition, and one has since died. The parents have been told they cannot keep their children because of "concerns about severe neglect, lack of parenting ability and the consequent risk to any child in their care". Miss Winters admits: "I was a bit aggressive, but never towards the kids. "In one sense they were right to take them away, I was young. They looked at it thinking that if I was aggressive towards social services, I'd be aggressive toward my kids." However, she insists she is a changed woman. Miss Winters receives

[Goofball Jones]

+1 to your -1 (err.. wait..) If you're that {censored}ed up, what the hell are you doing having children. I love how procreation is deemed a "right." If you can't handle reality, you are an unfit parent and shouldn't be allowed to breed. Women like her are almost a poster child for positive Eugenics

 

 

I believe that postpartum-depression was a major factor in this case...which doesn't come on until after childbirth.

 

My sister was a totally sane person. She was married, had her first child, nothing wrong. She was a registered nurse, had a good career, everything going right. Had her second child and BAM, like 2 days after giving birth she was off the deep end. She had to be institutionalized for like a month afterward. Finally she was diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic (at the time, this was 20 years ago...who knows what specific thing she'd be diagnosed with today). She was totally irrational, thought everyone was trying to kill her and take her baby away to conduct medical experiments blah blah blah. It was literally like a switch being thrown after giving birth. She's been like that ever since...though it's under control for the most part with lithium and some other drug.

 

Then again, she never had another child.

[citizenralph]

Because you claimed "the reason doesn't matter" The reason absolutely does matter. The only way that a mother can procure a third trimester abortion is if the fetus has a significant chance of causing her death. You're holding up an example that occurs once in a million pregnancies, about which a massive number of laws and ethical rules apply, and you're using it as an example about how people in general don't care about the ethics of abortion, when in fact, the multitude of regulations regarding the procedure and the exacting medical standards required before it's permitted clearly demonstrate otherwise.

 

 

My point is that it is legal to do so. The reason is at the Dr's discretion. In this particular case the reason could have been mental instability.

 

Yes, I am using it as an example of how people don't care about abortion. In or out of the womb doesn't matter, it is still a human being.

[hawkhuff]

Federal Government! Even some states though. Its amazing how much power Dr's , state and the Fed have over just this one subject.

 

 

No, it is state government too via Medicaid and the rules as applied to the medical practices.

 

I think the physician should and must have the power here, not the government. It is in the hands of the physician we place our lives. As it should be. Don't you think?

 

It is the government and the lawyers who are the intruders that wield way too much power and have corrupted this relationship. And most people don't take notice.

[RSBro]

1) A TEXAS "mother." 2) She believes in the devil, so, she's religious (this is a rarity in Texas I've been told ) 3) She's a {censored}ing idiot. 4) Don't worry, she's probably pro life.

5) She's probably a Katrina evacuee expatriate who neve went home. :idk:

[hawkhuff]

What you're saying is that abortion is legal through the entire gestation given a compelling medical reason. So, how am I wrong?

 

 

You are right and if a physician starts off an evaluation with "it is my belief that......" they can always come up with a justification for abortion throughout the gestation period.

 

The late term doctor who was recently eliminated was doing just these kinds of things. The last count of his I read was 60,000 late term murders all of which he had justification and came under the scrutiny of state and medical officials.

[Goofball Jones]

 

HCBF is an endless source of entertainment none of which should be taken seriously but still does. Never fails.

 

 

Which is it...is this entertainment we shouldn't take seriously, or are you being serious?

[P1gg1e]

I believe that postpartum-depression was a major factor in this case...which doesn't come on until after childbirth. My sister was a totally sane person. She was married, had her first child, nothing wrong. She was a registered nurse, had a good career, everything going right. Had her second child and BAM, like 2 days after giving birth she was off the deep end. She had to be institutionalized for like a month afterward. Finally she was diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic (at the time, this was 20 years ago...who knows what specific thing she'd be diagnosed with today). She was totally irrational, thought everyone was trying to kill her and take her baby away to conduct medical experiments blah blah blah. It was literally like a switch being thrown after giving birth. She's been like that ever since...though it's under control for the most part with lithium and some other drug. Then again, she never had another child.

 

 

PPD can happen during pregnancy..though more common is after.

 

So sorry about your sister. Its really hard for some to understand that you can have one person one day and a couple days later they are someone else.

 

Getting pregnant doesn't have to be a rational thought.

[sub5ound]

Posting my true feelings on what should happen to this nutbag would probably get me banned, which is why I didn't post here when I was drinking last night. All I can say is that the sister should have had the good sense to keep the kid from a mother who was hearing voices. When was the last time someone that was hearing voices tried to hand you their baby, you gave it back and it ended positively? {censored}ing idiots. We should establish a moon colony for these people. Put a few Wal-Marts there, a Nascar track and take away their ability to have children.

[citizenralph]

You are right and if a physician starts off an evaluation with "it is my belief that......" they can always come up with a justification for abortion throughout the gestation period. The late term doctor who was recently eliminated was doing just these kinds of things. The last count of his I read was 60,000 late term murders all of which he had justification and came under the scrutiny of state and medical officials.

 

Before we get all crazy here, let me just say that there is no justification for the murder of that doctor. To use the term "eliminated" suggests a justification and I, in no way, believe it to be justified. I also am not aware of the number of procedures he performed,though as far as I'm concerned, one would have been too many.