Members dravenzouk Posted August 2, 2009 Members Share Posted August 2, 2009 Alright folks, I've got a car problem that's been intermittent for a long time now and I'm going to post it here to see if anyone's got any ideas. Sometimes the problem is very slight and just shows up very occasionally, and other times it's fairly consistent. I've had a 5 or 6 different mechanics "fix" it (from myself to backyard types to real pros) and the problem keeps coming back. I can't seem to get this one dealt with, and before I take it to the ultimate resource (Tom & Ray) I figured I'd give folks here a crack at it. Here's the basic symptoms: At first I would be just driving along, usually at highway speeds, and the engine would simply shut off. Most of the time, I would pull over and turn the key, and it would start right up again. Sometimes it would not start for a few minutes. The engine would crank just fine - it simply wouldn't catch. In time it then started to occasionally buck and miss as I'm driving - just here and there. It would also shut down still once in a while. Again though, it usually would start right up again immediately. The first time this problem showed up, the idea was that I had gotten a bad tank of gas and/or water contamination (it was winter). So I used "Heet" and such and it seemed to fix it. But after a while the problem came back and it became apparent there was something more to it. In diagnosing the problem, it seems like it's either an electrical or a fuel problem (or both). And since then it has come and gone, been "fixed" and came back, and I've seemingly tried everything - cleaned out the injectors, new fuel pump, new fuel filter, checked egr valve, checked if it was vapor lock, new wiring harness to the injectors, new plugs & wires, new distributor/cap/rotor, and entire new injector assembly. The one thing that really seemed to "finally" fix it was the new injector assembly (and it was expensive). That was about a year ago, and I've had no problems since then. Until now that is - the problem is back and I'm completely out of ideas. Every mechanic type (pro or not) I talk to is stumped. So, anyone here have any ideas? Oh......the vehicle in question is a '94 Chevy Astro van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guttermouth Posted August 2, 2009 Members Share Posted August 2, 2009 i had an issue like this in an old pickup. it turned out that i had gotten contaminated gas ( there looked to be rust in it). the crap would get sucked up to the filter,shut off the fuel flow,engine would die and crap would flow back into the tank. i'm not a chevy guy but i would think sticking a check valve on the fuel line to keep it from running back into the tank would help you rule out a fuel delivery issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ec437 Posted August 2, 2009 Members Share Posted August 2, 2009 I have no idea if there is a similar setup on an astro van, but my car will not run unless the computer is receiving signals from 2 magnetic sensors on the bell housing that measure crank speed and something else that I can't remember offhand. One of these sensors was old and cracked, and would intermittently fail, causing issues that sound similar to yours. There could be a million things causing your problem(s), though, so this is totally a blind stab in the dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted August 2, 2009 Members Share Posted August 2, 2009 A plasic bag floating in your gas tank will do this (clogs the gas intake and starves the engine). Do you have...enemies? hmmmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members countrybass Posted August 3, 2009 Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 Any ECU codes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thrustin Posted August 3, 2009 Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 Change the fuel filter. See what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dravenzouk Posted August 3, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 Thanks folks so far. Definately checked and dealt with (many times) any possible bad/dirty fuel, fuel filter has been checked/cleaned/replaced more than once, computer codes have been looked at and analyzed by a couple of mechanics (and the codes were always sorta vague). Enemies? Maybe, but I've dropped the tank (to replace the fuel pump) at least three times since this all started and found nothing in there. Just to be sure though, I'm going to hunt down all my enemies and kill them - couldn't hurt right? The crank sensor (or some other type of sensor). Yeah, I keep coming back to this or perhaps a bad ground or faulty wire somewhere. That said, these types of problems can be really difficult to locate and fix, and myself and others have put a lot of time into finding something like this already. But in the end, I bet that's what we come up with. Maybe a cracked vacumn line too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JovialEvil Posted August 3, 2009 Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 Have you noticed that it only happens when the car engine gets warms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dravenzouk Posted August 3, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 Have you noticed that it only happens when the car engine gets warms? It seemed like it at first - actually it seemed like it was only on long trips and I had been driving for a couple of hours. But that was false; it pretty much happens randomly. Sometimes right after startup, sometimes only when it's warmed up. Over the long period that this problem has come and gone, there have been a ton of red herrings. In the end, I've never been able to find any particular pattern or conditions that seem to have an effect. It can be all sorts of weather, under acceleration or just cruising, high or low speed, full or near empty tank, when I'm running accessories (like AC) or not, different brands or grades of gas, uphills or coasting, etc. Every time I think that I've found some sort of common pattern, when I test it I find that it doesn't matter. Actually, that's not entirely true. The one thing that no mechanic has been able to do is see the problem when the van is just parked and idling. It does seem to happen only when I'm driving or in gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JovialEvil Posted August 3, 2009 Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 I had something similar but it happen when the car got up to normal temp.. i believe it was the oxygen sensor and some other sensor that ended up being the problems.Sorry, I wish I could help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ec437 Posted August 3, 2009 Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 I had something similar but it happen when the car got up to normal temp.. i believe it was the oxygen sensor and some other sensor that ended up being the problems.Sorry, I wish I could help you. Wouldn't have been the oxygen sensor. No ECU out there would stall the engine because of a faulty oxygen sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JovialEvil Posted August 3, 2009 Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 Wouldn't have been the oxygen sensor. No ECU out there would stall the engine because of a faulty oxygen sensor. It was 2 sensors, oxygen and another if I remember correctly. I paid for 2 sensors to be replaced and the problem never occurred again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ec437 Posted August 3, 2009 Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 It was 2 sensors, oxygen and another if I remember correctly. I paid for 2 sensors to be replaced and the problem never occurred again. Could have well been that your oxygen sensor needed replacing as well, but I guarantee it wasn't the main cause of the problem. (I suppose it could have been a contributing factor though. ) Oxygen sensors regularly go bad after about 50,000 miles, and when they start giving faulty readings they will usually just turn the check engine light on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JovialEvil Posted August 3, 2009 Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 I was fed up and needed to problem to go away after buying a new computer module and other parts that didn't solve the problem.I can not remember what the other sensor was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scary Bill Posted August 3, 2009 Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 Mass air flow sensor? Had one go bad on an s10. the truck would stall and buck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beginner01 Posted August 3, 2009 Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 mid-frame fuel filter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 78pbass Posted August 3, 2009 Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 my first inclination is to pull over as soon as the problem arises and check fuel pressure first. Make sure it's still in operable PSI range. There's a pressure relief valve in the rails that sometimes fails. Since you didnt mention mileage, a clogged honeycomb in the catalytic converter can sometimes cause these issues, especially if you're burning just a little oil over time. From there, I would check if it has a roll-over or rear-end fuel cutoff switch and check its status, they can get flaky and tell the computer to kill fuel delivery. To echo ec437's comments, its all guesswork over the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ec437 Posted August 3, 2009 Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 Another thing to keep in mind is that some cars have 2 fuel filters or pumps, and if one fails it can starve the engine. That said, I'm inclined to think that its an electrical problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jrkman Posted August 3, 2009 Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 Would it be possible to rig up a pressure gage on a fuel line and just leave it there to check when the van stalls. If you're getting fuel pressure it would eliminate one thing. Then you would know it's definitely electrical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cpt. Spliff Posted August 3, 2009 Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 Yeah, the mechanic type, thats me.I had that problem with an elderly, somewhat sedate Volvo. The symptoms were exactly the same. It turned out to be the "givare" cable. I haven't got the haziest what that would be in your language, but a direct translation should be something like giver/deliverer cable. It's part of the electrical system, about two hands broad and that's about all I know. Come to think of it, I may not be the mechanic type, but having it replaced worked wonders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members perrydabassman Posted August 3, 2009 Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 I have had two different vehicles give me exactly the same symptoms, and in both cases, the computer crapped out. One was an 83 firebird, the other an 08 dodge caravan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members solderjunkie Posted August 3, 2009 Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 Your problem is my specialty... I've made a career of cars like yours:) Like has been mentioned, it's all guesswork without actually seeing/testing/driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sonic1 Posted August 3, 2009 Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 All I can think of is that whatever caused your old injector to crap out a year ago has now cought up whith your new injector. Possible sediment or gunk in the fuel tank/lines. Maybe have you emmisions checked out to see if you're running lean. If not, check for vaccuum leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RIC N BACKER Posted August 3, 2009 Members Share Posted August 3, 2009 Unless I missed it, I didnt see what type of car this is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 3, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted August 3, 2009 Unless I missed it, I didnt see what type of car this is Indeed. Two pages of educated guesses without Year/Make/Model. The two aspects of this that stand out are that it happens seemingly totally at random, and only with the vehicle in Drive (never while in Park/Neutral). That would seemingly eliminate this being a strictly fuel or mechanical cause, and put it more firmly towards an electrical cause. With only a few miles of engine related wire in most new cars, should be a snap to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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