Members Outkaster Posted August 30, 2005 Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 Why is it more and more musicianship is in the toilet? I realize the best musicians do not make the best bands but man there are a lot of terrible players out there of every instrument. How many of you are rarely impressed by what you see out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flatout Posted August 30, 2005 Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 Shall we talk........ Meg White? Is she not a tad over reliant on the crash cymbal?Would it not be better if she could play in time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr. Botch Posted August 30, 2005 Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 Some of us are just hired for our looks. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fastplant Posted August 30, 2005 Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 While it's not the 80's anymore, I'd still like to see some good guitar players. When was the last time you heard a top 40 song with a killer solo? Although, I would say drummers and bassists have gotten better in recent years. But singing and guitar playing seems to have gone downhill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zookie Posted August 30, 2005 Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 In another forum someone asked what we all thought the most moving songs ever written were. Lots of people answered with numerous Neil Young songs and some Beatles. A big response was "Amazing Grace". Personally I would have listed "Danny Boy". Most of those songs don't require a huge amount of intricate musicianship. What makes those songs so effective is the emotional articulateness in them. When I start feeling old and curmudgeonly towards some of the newer music I hear, it isn't because the songs are three chords, it's because the songs have no emotional impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fastplant Posted August 30, 2005 Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 Originally posted by zookie When I start feeling old and curmudgeonly towards some of the newer music I hear, it isn't because the songs are three chords, it's because the songs have no emotional impact. I can agree with that. And when that's coupled with a lack of good musicianship it really makes you wonder why people like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ratthedd Posted August 30, 2005 Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 Being a good musician is more than just technical prowess on your instrument. You have to be able to inject your emotion into the listener. Neil Young does that well. Ian Anderson does that well. In my opinion, Jack and Meg White do that well, also. Sure, the White Stripes won't go down in history as being masters of their instruments, and their lyrics tend to ramble on with no real direction, but who cares? Their music gets my head bopping and my feet tapping, and that's more than I can say for any number of other musicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bones Posted August 30, 2005 Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 Was thinking about this when listening to some old Deep Purple over the weekend. The old recordings sound raw, under produced and nonconforming - and they're outstanding. All Jon Lords needed was a Hammond and over-driven Leslie to create tons of variety in his sound. Maybe less commercial/Music business demand for conformity and production would foster raw musicianship again - get people playing from their guts they way they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted August 30, 2005 Author Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 Originally posted by zookie In another forum someone asked what we all thought the most moving songs ever written were.Lots of people answered with numerous Neil Young songs and some Beatles. A big response was "Amazing Grace". Personally I would have listed "Danny Boy".Most of those songs don't require a huge amount of intricate musicianship. What makes those songs so effective is the emotional articulateness in them. When I start feeling old and curmudgeonly towards some of the newer music I hear, it isn't because the songs are three chords, it's because the songs have no emotional impact. True but there are still a bunch of umimpressive people. I do not see Bill Paynes, Chester Thompsons, Roy Bittans or Ben Tench's out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted August 30, 2005 Moderators Share Posted August 30, 2005 Originally posted by Outkaster man there are a lot of terrible players out there of every instrument. I find that encouraging. Terry D. P.S. But seriously, it was never about shredding to the average non prepubescent boy. It's all about the song, and how it connects with the listener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted August 30, 2005 Author Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 Originally posted by MrKnobs I find that encouraging. Terry D. P.S. But seriously, it was never about shredding to the average non prepubescent boy. It's all about the song, and how it connects with the listener. True I realize that you do not have to be a good musician to write a good song. It maybe that I am older and do not hear to much stuff I like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zookie Posted August 30, 2005 Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 Originally posted by Outkaster True I realize that you do not have to be a good musician to write a good song. Well, I would take that statement and turn it on its head. I would say that it is a good musician who can write a good song. To be able to take all that theory, all that skill and all that worldly experience and funnel it into 3:05 of pure emotional and articulate truth is what talent is about. Yammering on like a howler monkey while another guy plays a G major chord faster than anyone else ever has for 3:05 doesn't count. But, then again, I also think the short story is a "higher" art than the novel. I find terseness and direction aesthetically appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted August 30, 2005 Moderators Share Posted August 30, 2005 Originally posted by zookie Well, I would take that statement and turn it on its head. I would say that it is a good musician who can write a good song. To be able to take all that theory, all that skill and all that worldly experience and funnel it into 3:05 of pure emotional and articulate truth is what talent is about. Yeah, but the problem I see is that the really skilled players tend to have esoteric/refined taste in the music they'll play. For instance, many really proficient keyboardists and guitarists prefer to play jazz, fusion, or instrumental stuff (Eric Johnson comes to mind). They're bored with simple music. But the public, for the most part, has very simple taste in music. Right now, some guy or girl is strumming on an acoustic at some coffee house singing a beautiful, heart wrenching original song using three chords while in dire need of a metronome to coordinate their spastic strumming. At a club nearby, some band full of 17 year old kids is pounding out the same three chords with massive distortion and volume to a full house getting off on the raw energy of the music and the passion and anger in the singer's voice. Meanwhile, some of the finest players in Austin are doing a little jazz trio thing with 12 people watching. I'm not speaking theoretically. Living in Austin I see this all the time. I like hooking all the above folks up. I like to find the raw, talented singer/songwriters, connect them with the skilled musicians, and put it all together into a more complex arrangement / chord progression that enhances rather than subtracts from the energy and evocativeness of the original performace. And when the magic happens, I'm there with the microphones and tape. When it works perfectly, it awakens the child in the older, better players, giving them an excitement from simplicity they've almost forgotten, and opens the ears and eyes of the younger songwriters to what is possible with more knowledge and proficiency. Not saying I've accomplished this, but I've been giving it a try. Now that I'm on the verge of retirement, I'll have more time and funding to put into the project. Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tedster Posted August 30, 2005 Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 Originally posted by Mr. Botch Some of us are just hired for our looks. Deal with it. I know I sure was... On a serious note, Knobs, you're dead on. Or, as I like to say, Who's a better guitarist, Yngwie Malmsteen or Bruce Springsteen? Now, who's sold more CDs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr. Botch Posted August 30, 2005 Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 So what we're looking for is a guy who can write superior songs, play them with as much technical skill AND emotion as possible, and yet keep it simple too? Did I mention I saw Mark Knopfler in concert about a month ago? And I had tears running down my cheeks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zookie Posted August 31, 2005 Members Share Posted August 31, 2005 Originally posted by Mr. Botch So what we're looking for is a guy who can write superior songs, play them with as much technical skill AND emotion as possible, and yet keep it simple too? For me, that's Richard Thompson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitar Centaur Posted August 31, 2005 Members Share Posted August 31, 2005 Originally posted by flatout Shall we talk........ Meg White? Is she not a tad over reliant on the crash cymbal? Would it not be better if she could play in time? {censored}in' A. That "Doorbell" song is unlistenable because of that hideous crash cymbal she rides through the entire song. They shoulda just given her a {censored}ing cowbell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitar Centaur Posted August 31, 2005 Members Share Posted August 31, 2005 Originally posted by fastplant While it's not the 80's anymore, I'd still like to see some good guitar players. When was the last time you heard a top 40 song with a killer solo? Although, I would say drummers and bassists have gotten better in recent years. But singing and guitar playing seems to have gone downhill. Why is it everyone thinks "the solo makes the song"? I hear {censored}loads of great guitar interaction and "playing to the song" in today's music. Y'all just ain't listening close enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fastplant Posted August 31, 2005 Members Share Posted August 31, 2005 Originally posted by Crustycabs Why is it everyone thinks "the solo makes the song"? I hear {censored}loads of great guitar interaction and "playing to the song" in today's music. Y'all just ain't listening close enough. The solo isn't everything, but you still don't hear anything good. That's all I'm saying. I'd rather hear a good song without a solo, than a bad with with a great solo. I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'd also say that while guitar playing seems to have gone downhill since the 80's, bass playing and drumming talents have skyrocketed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Help!I'maRock! Posted September 1, 2005 Members Share Posted September 1, 2005 ok, here's the truth. deal with it. musicianship is fine. people are as dedicated to their instrument and to pushing boundaries with it as they ever were. what's in the toilet is the mainstream's ability to recognize talent and follow through by delivering it to the general public. its much easier, and there's much more money to be made in mediocrity. now quit your bitching, and go find something good to listen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members worthyjoe Posted September 1, 2005 Members Share Posted September 1, 2005 I think it's the same now as it has always been. The general public could care less how much technical skill a band/musician has. They only care if they hear music they like. It goes back to the example of Louie Louie. You can't write a song any simpler and it was just fun. People don't care if you are playing minor 5ths add the 9 sus 1.3 arpeggiated. They just care if they can bop along and sing along. That said, it's been my experience in taking music lessons and generally being around technically gifted musicians... many I came across just didn't have creativity. It's like they explain a chord progression or what theory they are incorporating in a song and how it's cool they are doing it this way and blah blah blah.. and I'm just like... I don't like it. It's all about songwriting. Technical skills only matter to some musicians. That's my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fastplant Posted September 1, 2005 Members Share Posted September 1, 2005 Originally posted by worthyjoe I think it's the same now as it has always been. The general public could care less how much technical skill a band/musician has. They only care if they hear music they like. It goes back to the example of Louie Louie. You can't write a song any simpler and it was just fun. People don't care if you are playing minor 5ths add the 9 sus 1.3 arpeggiated. They just care if they can bop along and sing along. That said, it's been my experience in taking music lessons and generally being around technically gifted musicians... many I came across just didn't have creativity. It's like they explain a chord progression or what theory they are incorporating in a song and how it's cool they are doing it this way and blah blah blah.. and I'm just like... I don't like it. It's all about songwriting. Technical skills only matter to some musicians. That's my 2 cents. I can agree with that, but I remember a while back when great musicians wrote great songs. That doesn't happen much anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted September 1, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 1, 2005 Again I am not talking about technical skills and blinding fast solo's. I am talking about basic good skills with an instrument. I just do not see it anymore. I cannot think of how many times a guitarist I meet does not know anything about flats when they have to transpose things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fastplant Posted September 1, 2005 Members Share Posted September 1, 2005 Originally posted by Outkaster Again I am not talking about technical skills and blinding fast solo's. I am talking about basic good skills with an instrument. I just do not see it anymore. I cannot think of how many times a guitarist I meet does not know anything about flats when they have to transpose things. That's what I'm saying too. I used solos as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zookie Posted September 1, 2005 Members Share Posted September 1, 2005 Originally posted by Outkaster I cannot think of how many times a guitarist I meet does not know anything about flats when they have to transpose things. I'm only half joking when I say tab has hurt some degree of musicianship, or at least versatility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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