Members GCDEF Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by FlogRock Btw, why do some of you assume that you need a loud amp for gigs? I don't get that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fastplant Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by FlogRock Btw, why do some of you assume that you need a loud amp for gigs? That's only true for small gigs with only vocals through the PA. And even then: use an amp that gets the same volume as the drums. If the drums are amplified by the PA, the guitar will also use the PA. If the drums are not amplified, then it makes no sense to suddenly be a lot louder than the drums at gigs. My solution: use a small amp, both for practice and gigs, and mic it at gigs. And if you don't feel manly enough with just a small amp, then put the small amp on 4x12" cabinet, but don't use it. Then the amp is also at the proper height. I think it all goes back to the days when major touring bands needed 14 full stacks on stage to get their sound out. I don't think alot of guitarists realize that nowadays, almost all of the cabs on a major stage are empty, and just for looks. I finally convinced my guitarist to ditch his 4x12 and get a 2x12 and to turn down on stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chris_feek Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 I was once in a similar situation. I was in this band with some really good friends. but the bass player was always too loud, i tried convincing the guy to turn down but that never seemed to work either. The thing is, if the guy is always too loud and doesn;t seem to notice, it means that he just doesn't have what it takes to be a (semi)pro musician. I can tell you now that you will kick this guy out some day or the band will just die or get nowhere or whatever. I tried to convince those guys in the band to fire the bass player but they didn't want to because he was a friend and stuff...eventually i quit and some time later i started a new band with the drummer and some proper musicians... these days we sometimes even practice without amplifying the vocals.... Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chris_feek Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 btw, i just bought a classic 30. I already used it at 3 gigs and never turned the volume past 2.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FlogRock Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by fastplant I think it all goes back to the days when major touring bands needed 14 full stacks on stage to get their sound out. I don't think alot of guitarists realize that nowadays, almost all of the cabs on a major stage are empty, and just for looks. I finally convinced my guitarist to ditch his 4x12 and get a 2x12 and to turn down on stage. Yup, that's true. But how long ago is that? 35 years? Guitarists are so backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Z_Zoquis Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Both myself and the other guitarist in my band use Classic 30 1x12 combos. He's got his running a seperate 2x12 cab as well, while mine is just the 1x12. We haven't gigged yet (soon I hope ) but at practice, I'm usually at about 3.5 - 4 (I use the clean channel mostly with a BOSS OS-2) on the volume. Anything louder and it starts to drown out the drums. I just can't imagine a scenario where any more power would be needed. I mean we practice pretty loud - in any small room I'd think we could just use our practice settings and we'd be good to go. In a larger place, the PA would be used as has been said already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members maxnew40 Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 The size of the speaker cab doesn't really matter that much if the amp is right. It is all about having an amp that can get the tone you want at a decent volume. I play a Line6 HD147 through a 4X12 cab and the other guitarist uses an old Fender Deluxe and the other guitarist has a problem with getting too loud not me (my amp is 300 watts but it has a volume control and my tones are tweaked to sound right at the volume we play at). I just don't see where you need a 100 watt tube amp ever. They usually need to be cranked up high enough to kill small animals to get them in the sweet spot tone wise. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members woodsmandan Posted September 12, 2006 Author Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 I think I could go get a Marshall Mode 4 and just out power the {censored} out of his 6505...Seriously, it's nice to see I'm not alone to think that small amps are the way to go...a wall of 4x12 sure looks tough but for me, there's nothing that compares to a ful throttle small amp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vanlatte Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by fastplant I think it all goes back to the days when major touring bands needed 14 full stacks on stage to get their sound out. I don't think alot of guitarists realize that nowadays, almost all of the cabs on a major stage are empty, and just for looks. I finally convinced my guitarist to ditch his 4x12 and get a 2x12 and to turn down on stage. + A Gagillion ( I am sure that's a number)This should be carved in stone and used as a doormat for every Guitar Center on the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by maxnew40 I just don't see where you need a 100 watt tube amp ever. They usually need to be cranked up high enough to kill small animals to get them in the sweet spot tone wise. Yeah, I totally agree. There are so many great smaller amps on the market now, there is NO reason to have an amp like that unless you're playing arenas.And I agree, if that's all you want is the macho factor, get some empty cabinets to use as beer stands. Even famous bands have done that - put a wall of speakers on stage and most of them are not even on. But then again they have roadies to carry that stuff around and set it up... personally I'm happy to have less to carry as well as not damaging anybody's hearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roy Brooks Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 You ought to call him up before the next practice and express your concerns. If he doesn't listen simply replace him. It shouldn't be any harder than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarsjb Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 We practice in a SMALL room (basement) all 4 walls are concrete block. Talk about LOUD. There's nothing we can really do about that, not allowed to modify the room at all etc. Everything bounces off the walls so bad, even at low volumes we are LOUD! I wear earplugs. The other guys in the band have laughed at me (yep they are that sutpid)...but I am the only one who can hear when we are finished. If your ears hurt, protect them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by GCDEF It's not an equipment problem, it's an attitude problem. Getting your tone isn't important at practice. Making sure everybody knows their part and the structure of the song is. You need to keep on him to turn down, and let him know you mean it. If he won't cooperate, replace him. We've started having acoustic practices. You could try that too. Plus a billion. I use a little Princeton facing the wall at rehearsal, the drummer uses a little 4 piece practice kit, the bass player plugs straight into the rehersal PA, and I often don't even set up a vocal mic, we just sit in chairs in a tight half circle around the drums. We rehearse the songs to get structure, breaks, and attitude. We've all been doing this long enough to know what our rigs are going to sound like live. I've found over the years that the louder a rehearsal is, the more stuff I miss that needed to be fixed but didn't because I couldn't hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by chris_feek btw, i just bought a classic 30. I already used it at 3 gigs and never turned the volume past 2.5 Yup. I use a 40 watt Fender HRD and have never had it over 4, and I use it for everything from winery gigs to big outdoor festival stages. With PAs today, there just isn't any need for huge amps. I saw a mainstage act where the guitar player used a Blues Jr. on a stool with a mic in front of it and it absolutely crushed tone-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by Lee Flier +1. It does take awhile for most young guitarists to figure this out. And even more especially if you can only afford one amp. That always used to pose problems for me when I was younger and only had one amp that couldn't help being loud. It had no master volume and attenuators didn't exist back then, either. When I was a kid, I had a late 50s Fender Basssman piggyback with a 2/12 cab ( I sold it when I was 18, I wish I still had it, I'm a dumbass, but that's a different thread!). I used to turn it toward the wall and pack blankets in front of the speakers to muffle them so I could crank it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 I used to have that problem with a former band member. It is BS don't take it. The point of practice is to get together and polish material not to let everyone around hear you. Tell him to bring a diferent amp or one of the previous solutions. There is no need to practice at a high volume level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elbow Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 We pretty much practice at gig levels... which means, we can hear ourselves over the drums but we have manageable levels in practice and in gigs. If it's necessary to be louder at a gig, we mic up. I like to play our practices at our gig levels because it gives us a good idea of what our sound will be live. I know the settings I use on my gear as soon as I set it down. Depending on the venue, I may need to tweak it some, but it is usually right on or very close to where it needs to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted September 12, 2006 Moderators Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by elbow We pretty much practice at gig levels... which means, we can hear ourselves over the drums but we have manageable levels in practice and in gigs. If it's necessary to be louder at a gig, we mic up.I like to play our practices at our gig levels because it gives us a good idea of what our sound will be live. I know the settings I use on my gear as soon as I set it down. Depending on the venue, I may need to tweak it some, but it is usually right on or very close to where it needs to be. I'm of this philosophy too. I basically use the same amp settings onstage as at practice, maybe just turning up a little. Makes it simple. But then, the band I play guitar in has a pretty low stage volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cooterbrown Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Our drummer's shed is our practice room.We all have our own practice amps and instruments.Drummer has a small Tama kit on a rack with mufflers on all the heads.I guess our rehearsals are sponsored by Peavey. Our bass player uses a TKO, the guitarist and I both have Classic 30's and my keyboards go into a KB 300. For vocals, we use four 12" wedges powered by an XR-600. The bassist and guitarist just bring their axes, while I have a Korg Triton and my old Strat with a couple of fx pedals I keep in the practice room.It's nice not having to waste rehearsal time setting up/tearing down.Even that setup can get a bit loud, but we always try to keep everything at a level where we don't get any ear fatigue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cooterbrown Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by fastplant I think it all goes back to the days when major touring bands needed 14 full stacks on stage to get their sound out. I don't think alot of guitarists realize that nowadays, almost all of the cabs on a major stage are empty, and just for looks. I finally convinced my guitarist to ditch his 4x12 and get a 2x12 and to turn down on stage. My guitarist uses a Soldano Hot Rod 50 with a 2x12" cab, and I use a Rivera M100 (run in triode, at 50w) through a 1x12".Our bassist has an Ampeg SVT but uses a small SWR 4x10". What we use is way more than enough power for any gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Starry Night Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 protect your ears guys. i've been rehearsing in loud bands for years and finally two years ago i came home from rehearsal and the ringing in my ears never went away. yup, tinnitus - both ears. the possibility of mixing my next CD is basically shot; not to mention appreciating sound and music for the rest of my life. now if i go see a show that's even remotely loud my ears hurt - they have become super sensitive to moderate-high volume. I went out soon after and got myself a pair of custom molded ear plugs which are filtered to allow all frequencies but attenuates the sound. I should have got these 15 years ago. they're only $150 and well worth the investment - trust me. you can tell your bandmates to turn down all you want but the bottom line is that it's your ears and no one really gives a {censored} how sore your ears are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 That is one of my major concerns, I never want ear damage. I communicate the concern and my band agrees, therfore we play at reasonalble leves (we sometimes gig loud). I probibly should invest in good earplugs that wont distort the hearing. I have seen some much cheaper than you mentioned but I do not know if they are any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Facejackets Posted September 13, 2006 Members Share Posted September 13, 2006 I usually keep my 6505+ on 2 for practice. For shows I'm on 3 or higher...usually 3 1/2 is as high as I crank it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ZeppelinPie792 Posted September 13, 2006 Members Share Posted September 13, 2006 My band actually plays pretty loud for our practices (well, you can hear us outside if you walk by), but thats beucase we keep turning ourselves up to hear ourselves. My other guitarist will be really loud, and I can barely hear myself on my solos so I turn up. Well, he doesn't want to stop the song, so he turns up his rythem, and it keeps going on. Then at the end of the song he just yells at me to turn down. I wonder if he just can't hear himself or something..? (that would be kindof odd because I can't even hear my rythem when im standing maybe two feet away from my amp) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FlogRock Posted September 13, 2006 Members Share Posted September 13, 2006 Originally posted by ZeppelinPie792 My band actually plays pretty loud for our practices (well, you can hear us outside if you walk by), but thats beucase we keep turning ourselves up to hear ourselves. My other guitarist will be really loud, and I can barely hear myself on my solos so I turn up. Well, he doesn't want to stop the song, so he turns up his rythem, and it keeps going on. Then at the end of the song he just yells at me to turn down. I wonder if he just can't hear himself or something..? (that would be kindof odd because I can't even hear my rythem when im standing maybe two feet away from my amp) Like I said before in this thread, many guitarists don't understand how guitar amps sound in different places in the room. For instance, the drummer who is sitting right in front of your amp, but 10 feet away, can sometimes hear it louder than the guitarist who is standing two feet away from his amp, but has it aimed at his knees. A similar thing often happens in two-guitar bands, where the guitarists are aiming their amps at each other. It pays off a lot to experiment with amp placement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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