Members The Elitist Posted August 28, 2007 Members Share Posted August 28, 2007 I was looking to snag a camcorder to film live performances of my own band and other local bands (with their permission obviously). Preferably something that I can easily get onto my computer without having to buy extra gear (ie, no VHS), and also having a "microphone in" or "line in" would be nice to run audio from the soundboard or a mixer + microphones that I'd have setup.. I was looking for an inexpensive solution (sub-$500). Yes, I know that might be asking a lot at that price... Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted August 28, 2007 Members Share Posted August 28, 2007 I was looking to snag a camcorder to film live performances of my own band and other local bands (with their permission obviously). Preferably something that I can easily get onto my computer without having to buy extra gear (ie, no VHS), and also having a "microphone in" or "line in" would be nice to run audio from the soundboard or a mixer + microphones that I'd have setup.. I was looking for an inexpensive solution (sub-$500). Yes, I know that might be asking a lot at that price... Any suggestions? I don't have much experience regarding the video facet of your question - but will comment that it's really tough getting consistently usable audio from the board at live performances without investing alot of time setting it up. I think I'd being for a unit that has a "sensitivity" setting for the inbuilt MIC rather than planning to capture audio from the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ratthedd Posted August 28, 2007 Members Share Posted August 28, 2007 I haven't checked on video camera prices lately, but I suspect that $500 might not cut it for what your after. You'll be filming in low light conditions and you'll need a very sensitive CCD with a large lense in order to capture enough light. Check out your local camera places, both the big boys, like best buy, and the smaller shops and ask for low lux cameras. Tell them that you'll be filming mostly indoors in bars and clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hard Truth Posted August 28, 2007 Members Share Posted August 28, 2007 Be sure to get a camera with a firewire (also known as IEE 1394 or iLink) output so you can ingest the material into your computer for editing. Look for a camera with good low light sensitivity. If possible get one that allows you to manually control the iris since the high contrast lights in a club will be hard for the auto iris to handle properly. Getting what you need for $500 will be difficult, possibly impossible. Seriously consider renting instead of buying. Pro or semi-pro cameras are much more suitable for shooting in clubs than consumer cameras. Almost all lower priced cameras tend to overload when the mic picks up a loud band. The trouble with using a PA feed is that it will pretty likely not include all the instruments, just the ones, such as vocals, that need the amplification. One way to deal with the audio is to use a good external microphone and also get an antenuating pad to reduce the level before it hits the camera. You'll also need an adaptor to connect a pro microphone to a consumer camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted August 29, 2007 Members Share Posted August 29, 2007 You might consider a setup like this: a used sony dcr trv22: it is smallish camera with a nice lens and it has firewire to make getting the video onto the computer easy. plus some kind of XLR-1/8" adapter/preamp like this:http://www.studio1productions.com/xlr-bp.htm Plus a stereo pair of mics that you can put somewhere that sounds good in the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Elitist Posted August 29, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 29, 2007 Thanks for the info folks. Been doing more googling and lots of other forum reading and it seems like this could be an even more expensive endeavour than guitar or bass gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Redsand187 Posted August 29, 2007 Members Share Posted August 29, 2007 Thanks for the info folks. Been doing more googling and lots of other forum reading and it seems like this could be an even more expensive endeavour than guitar or bass gear. Yeah, to have a chance to have anything that is actually usable I don't think it is possible for less then 1000 dollars on a good day buying used gear. New, you are probably looking at 2-3000 dollar minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted August 29, 2007 Members Share Posted August 29, 2007 Yeah, to have a chance to have anything that is actually usable I don't think it is possible for less then 1000 dollars on a good day buying used gear. New, you are probably looking at 2-3000 dollar minimum. ROI? Will the extra quality and convenience offered by this expensive solution be worth it in the end? Sounds like a major waste of cash to me - just go with whatever works - hell, live videos are expected to look and sound like s**t, right Just think of all the gear you could buy, with that same cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted August 29, 2007 Members Share Posted August 29, 2007 ROI? With all due respect - my bet is that 98% of the music (and musically related) purchases made by forum members wouldn't pass muster in the face of an ROI analysis. In most cases, if a band were to propose an honest business case (honest in terms of how many gigs they'll really play and what they'll get paid for 'em and an honest accounting for time spent (driving, practicing, performing)) - they'd first be laughed out of the office and then fired for incompentent business sense! For 99% of the folks on this forum (myself included), any attempt to financially justify the time and $$$ invested in musical endeavors is an exercise in self-deception. Face it - for most folks here, music is a labor of love which is at best offset with a little bit of pocket change at the end of the night. Buy whatever toys your personal situation can afford and enjoy 'em! Life's way too short to sweat the nickels and dimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members atabner Posted August 29, 2007 Members Share Posted August 29, 2007 For 99% of the folks on this forum (myself included), any attempt to financially justify the time and $$$ invested in musical endeavors is an exercise in self-deception. Face it - for most folks here, music is a labor of love which is at best offset with a little bit of pocket change at the end of the night.Buy whatever toys your personal situation can afford and enjoy 'em! Life's way too short to sweat the nickels and dimes. Amen - unless you're doing it full time, you're almost certainly onto a financial loser in this business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted August 29, 2007 Members Share Posted August 29, 2007 Amen - unless you're doing it full time, you're almost certainly onto a financial loser in this business. As a performer - even if you're doing it full time - unless you're at or very near the top of the industry - it's likely still a financial loser. High paying gigs as a performer are few and far between - and those that do exist tend to have a lifespan that is measured in weeks or months (as opposed to the "years" that are necessary to truly call it a career). Those who are at the pinnacle of success are extremely visible - which is enough to convince many to chase the dream. For the other 99.99% of us - our musical endeavors are a labor of love. There ain't nothing wrong with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members picker13 Posted August 29, 2007 Members Share Posted August 29, 2007 Well, here's my "budget" recommendations. 1) Put out the word for anyone you know or your other band members know that has a digital camcorder. Try to get the best one you can. Consider trading a "party" gig for the use of the camera and any nice software they may have to play with the video (just as, or even more important than the camera, IMO). 2) Chose a place that has built in lighting, or bring yours if you have it, and set it up to be full on when you're recording. Yes, it will be hot, but the light will make the video that much better. 3) Put the camera on a stand, and have somebocy there to guard it and turn it on/off. Don't bother with having someone pan/scan -- it can be done with the software with better results. Use the AC power adapter (the battery will NOT last long enough). 4) Frame the band and just the band. 5) If you have a controlled stage, use the line in option running a tap from your mixer. If not, then get one or two good mics, run them through a pre-amp/mixer, then to your camera via the correct cable/adapter. During set up check the sound levels to be sure that you're not overloading (clipping) the audio 6) Put your best performed songs on the video -- might even consider playing them before the crowd gets there. Make sure it's OK with the club owner if that's the situation. 7) Now edit the videos, adding wanted effects, etc. Make master DVD's/VCD's. Be sure to get the entire band's input on the mixing/editing process. This will be the least expensive way to go. If you want better video, including multiple simultaneous angles and pan/scans, you are much better off spending your $500 for a pro service (check your local TV stations -- most have video production services). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Redsand187 Posted August 30, 2007 Members Share Posted August 30, 2007 ROI? Will the extra quality and convenience offered by this expensive solution be worth it in the end? Sounds like a major waste of cash to me - just go with whatever works - hell, live videos are expected to look and sound like s**t, right Just think of all the gear you could buy, with that same cash. Depends on the desired results. If you want to film it to put in your cabinet next to your nephew's 8th birthday party, then sure, a camcorder will do everything you need. If you are looking to showcase your performance via youtube or your website, you'll need to step it up. For 3000 bucks or so, I could probably piece together the stuff to film an actual music video/DVD... but that is forgetting the fact that I already have a 10000 dollar editing suite. Really, if you want to actually get some promotional use out of it, you will probably want a 3chip camera, which will run probably still around 700 bucks or so, for a cheap consumer version, 1500-3000 for a good prosumer SD cam. Then you will want a XLR converter like posted, so say 200 bucks, and a couple of mics that will probably run 200-600 bucks. You should also use a minidisk or similar recorder to record directly from the board to mix in with ambient mics probably another 100-200 bucks there. If you really want sharp video, a second, camera is required, if not a third, forth, fifth and sixth. I'd consider a video set up like a PA system. It's a nice to have. Sure you shouldn't sacrifice your gear so you can have a crappy camera, but if you have your gear set, have your pa decent, and want to do some guerrilla promotion, a video set up can be priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stegre Posted August 30, 2007 Members Share Posted August 30, 2007 I was looking to snag a camcorder to film live performances of my own band and other local bands (with their permission obviously). Preferably something that I can easily get onto my computer without having to buy extra gear (ie, no VHS), and also having a "microphone in" or "line in" would be nice to run audio from the soundboard or a mixer + microphones that I'd have setup.. I was looking for an inexpensive solution (sub-$500). Yes, I know that might be asking a lot at that price... Any suggestions? I guess my first question would be: "What use are you planning on making of the video?" Is it for fun, or for your learning or a demo... If it is for a demo, is it going online, and what kind of gigs are you trying to get. My approach to each use situation would be quite a bit different. Stefancoverbandbook.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C JoGo Posted September 3, 2007 Members Share Posted September 3, 2007 We use a $100 Sony TRV30- with a wide angle adaptor ----great quality in recording and video --direct to your PC originally had a MSRP of $1,699 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dk123123dk Posted September 4, 2007 Members Share Posted September 4, 2007 We once had a friend record a show with his camcorder. He just set it up on the tripod, setup a mic stand, ran a 20 dollar nady mic into the input with adaptors etc. It worked out great on the audio end of things. The video could have used a bit more light, but we couldnt get it hooked up to the computer anyways. But the audio was surprisingly good. Pro quality? no, but a lot better than we expected. So my advice would be to see if a friend has a good camera that will let you borrow it, or run it themselves. Also check for used cameras on craigslist. Just make sure that all the inputs and outputs work before buying. good luck dk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dk123123dk Posted September 4, 2007 Members Share Posted September 4, 2007 another thought, if you find a few cheap camcorders would be to setup two cams. That way you can edit the two shots to make your vids look more professional. It also helps if you have a mac, you can edit the vids with the encluded software. Again it wont be pro, but it will work dk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinbr Posted September 11, 2007 Members Share Posted September 11, 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1lwWUFhfXc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N6K-AJC2aw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuxlJ-WuXZc Shot with two second hand DV cameras ( you can get something in eBay for this price ). Sound recorded into Mackie Traction. Used the stereo mix that comes off the board. ( there was also 8 channels for fixing the mix) Imported the video in Final Cut and synced up. Forget the camera sound it will be awful. You really need 2 cameras for editing interest. I will be using 3 camera in future ( one handheld ). One was static 90% of the time, the other zoomed and panned, then the other is changed, back to the other for more zooming and panning, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted September 11, 2007 Members Share Posted September 11, 2007 We use a $100 Sony TRV30- with a wide angle adaptor ----great quality in recording and video --direct to your PC originally had a MSRP of $1,699 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et4vvhkWwkY At first, I thought not another version of ... Stairway. And then I saw that it's a string quartet (well, quintet with drums) version! Even has the "wheedly-wheedly-wheedly-wee" at the end of the solo. Too cool! Did you chart that yourself? Is it an original arrangement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted September 11, 2007 Members Share Posted September 11, 2007 "You really need 2 cameras for editing interest. I will be using 3 camera in future ( one handheld )." I submit that with some creativity, you only need one camera if you get b-roll footage during other songs: -- no one knows which song is being clapped for just by looking at an audience -- no one can really tell if the 3 seconds of closeup of the bassplayer's headstock is rocking out to a specific song -- ditto with a CU of the drummer's expression or the guitar player's fingers. You might have a problem with various closueps (like a headshot of the singer), but if you cover up panning between various setups with footage of the audience rqeacting or closeups of various unrelated things (and you are very quick and selective with your camera moves) you can do quite a bit on a single song with a single camera and some editing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C JoGo Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 back view with a ..wide angle >>>> DCR 20 SONY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C JoGo Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 At first, I thought not another version of ... Stairway. And then I saw that it's a string quartet (well, quintet with drums) version! Even has the "wheedly-wheedly-wheedly-wee" at the end of the solo. Too cool! Did you chart that yourself? Is it an original arrangement? The 1st violinist arranges all the pieces;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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