Members bengerm77 Posted December 18, 2008 Members Share Posted December 18, 2008 so the band at the bottom of my sig broke up some time ago, due to internal band problems (drummer was a dick). I've been languishing in mediocrity not being in a band of my own original songs since then. Anyway, through some weird turn of events a bunch of other cool guys are interested in starting a band with me in the same vein of music. I figured "why not use the same exact songs? I mean, I wrote them." Thing is, though they are ALL my riffs, I didn't create them in a vacuum. I didn't do all of the arrangement, so at least the drummer ( the guy with the poorest people skills) is going to raise a huge stink. In summary, are they my songs? I wrote every single note, did a lot of the arrangement, and lyrics aren't an issue (they going to be changed). Do I haev any right to take songs from one band to another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members strathound Posted December 18, 2008 Members Share Posted December 18, 2008 If you wrote em, they're yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members backtoblue Posted December 18, 2008 Members Share Posted December 18, 2008 I didn't do all of the arrangement, so at least the drummer ( the guy with the poorest people skills) is going to raise a huge stink. Un-arrange his arrangements. He (or anyone else) should only be credited a co-writer if they did something like repeat a chorus, add a verse/lyrics or come up with the signature riff, etc. If all he did was add a drumbeat, he didn't help write the song. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I'd handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JimiRules Posted December 18, 2008 Members Share Posted December 18, 2008 If you wrote them then I'd use them. I was in a band about 5 years back and we broke up. Two years ago I formed a band under a new name with the same lead singer and rhythm guitar player, but with a different drummer and bass player. We used a song from the first band that was written by myself and the first bass player. When we recorded it I gave credit to the first bass player for the lyrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted December 18, 2008 Members Share Posted December 18, 2008 Their your songs are they not? sounds like you still have friendship feelings for the drummer? Just saying why are you asking for permission to play your own songs. doesn't make sense to me. hell when ever I have a line up that willing to do one of my originals we just go for it. Doesn't make a f**k to me if the drummer I had in the past knows or not. He didt't write it I did so f**k him. I don't need his permission to play my own tune. Now if publishers are involved then yea the drummer could intervene if his name appears on the copyright but with mine original only name on the copyright is mine therefor I'm entitled for self indulging no matter who ass it pisses off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A Happy Crowd Posted December 19, 2008 Members Share Posted December 19, 2008 If you wrote the songs, they're yours to do whatever you want. What I would do, personally, is only keep the parts you wrote and let the new band members come up with their own parts. Not only will the songs sound updated and more in the style of your new band, but they'll also be different than what your old band used to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lopp Posted December 19, 2008 Members Share Posted December 19, 2008 Oooh... oooh... oooh. I think I know this topic. At least according to my studies 8 years ago and a little bit of recent research. Can I play too? If someone doesn't call me within the next two seconds, I'll take that as a "yes." [2 seconds pass] According to 17 USC 101, you are referring to a "joint work" prepared by two or more authors with the intention that their contributions be merged into inseparable or interdependent parts of a unitary whole. If the songs were indeed joint works, each of you has a non-exclusive right to perform the songs without the consent of each other. However, you should share any income from the song with your drummer. Yet, I'm not too sure how much income from a gig can be attributed to a few songs given the other expenses of booking the gig, playing the instruments, traveling to the gig, running or hiring out the sound system, and other expenses. Caveat: This is not legal advice. I am not an expert on Copyright law. I am also not licensed to give you advice. This post has not been evaluated by the food and drug administration. Always brush and floss before bedtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JBJ Posted December 19, 2008 Members Share Posted December 19, 2008 it's nigh on impossible for a drummer to get a song writing royalty. if the guy kicks up a fuss say: how many session drummers do you think end up with a songwriting credit for turning up and putting a 4/4 beat with some fills in behind some guys song? NONE the only drum part off the top off my head i think could even argue to be an integral part to the make up of a song is we will rock you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted December 19, 2008 Members Share Posted December 19, 2008 it's nigh on impossible for a drummer to get a song writing royalty. if the guy kicks up a fuss say: how many session drummers do you think end up with a songwriting credit for turning up and putting a 4/4 beat with some fills in behind some guys song? NONE the only drum part off the top off my head i think could even argue to be an integral part to the make up of a song is we will rock you... Actually that's not drums that a crowd of people in a church stomping their feet at a church pew and clapping sorry you lose. To the OP read Fantasy vs Fogerty it was a copyright case that made it all the way to the Supreme court. It's great read on copyrights. Also if your song is not copyrighted and published your song is fair game to anybody and everybody including your x drummer. Publishing companies such as ASCAP and BMI work for you to help protect your copyrighted material. I use BMI myself. If you need to copyright your song just download the PDF form form Gov. Copyright , just goggle it. Fill out the form and submit your material then wait 3-6 mos for your registration number once you get that number, have it published for a small yearly fee by BMI or ASCAP that way your copyrighted material is protect from Dream Merchants if your planning on having a music career doing originals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lopp Posted December 19, 2008 Members Share Posted December 19, 2008 Also if your song is not copyrighted and published your song is fair game to anybody and everybody including your x drummer. Publishing companies such as ASCAP and BMI work for you to help protect your copyrighted material. I use BMI myself. If you need to copyright your song just download the PDF form form Gov. Copyright , just goggle it. Fill out the form and submit your material then wait 3-6 mos for your registration number once you get that number, have it published for a small yearly fee by BMI or ASCAP that way your copyrighted material is protect from Dream Merchants if your planning on having a music career doing originals. That's kind of correct. Your song is "copyrighted" as soon as it is fixed in a tangible medium of expression (transcribed, recorded, etc). A work does not have to be published to have copyright protection (17 USC s104). You do not have to file a form with the Library of Congress to "copyright" your work. Filing the form "registers" your work. As mentioned, your work is copyrighted as soon as it is fixed in a tangible medium of expression. That being said, registering your work can give you the upper hand in helping prove you are the original author of a work. Thus, like twostone mentioned, if you are planning on having a career in music, registration could help prove you actually authored a song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted December 20, 2008 Members Share Posted December 20, 2008 Loop check your PM I sent you a message Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lopp Posted December 21, 2008 Members Share Posted December 21, 2008 Got it. One's awaiting your viewing pleasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted December 21, 2008 Members Share Posted December 21, 2008 I'd say if you wrote all of the riffs and the lyrics and the main melody, they are completely your songs and you can do what you want with them. Arranging a complimentary bass part or drum intro or what-have-you is not part of the songwriting process. If the situation was more like Metallica, where James, Kirk and Cliff (and later Jason) wrote random riffs and Lars would "arrange" them into songs...if that's the same kind of relationship you had with the drummer, then I would strongly consider giving him credit as a co-songwriter. If you had no idea how to put the riffs in order to make them into complete songs until somebody else in the band said, "Let's put this one here 8 times, then break with this one, then do this one again..." he definitely wrote the song with you. That's why Robert John "Mutt" Lange has songwriting credit on Def Leppard albums, because they basically brought in pieces of songs (riffs, melodies, lyrics) and he assembled those pieces into good tunes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diceman1000 Posted December 21, 2008 Members Share Posted December 21, 2008 if you wrote them,use them...if you co-wrote them,use them...just give the other guy(s) credit when you play them.the only place i'd see a problem is with particularly personal lyrics... Damon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted December 21, 2008 Members Share Posted December 21, 2008 Lyrics and melody make a song. Riffs may occasionally be part of it but are more often arrangement issues. I have lots of songs I wrote and arranged to be played one way with a band and another by myself. Even though they are completely different arrangements (and in some cases different keys) they are still the same song. The main reason arrangements aren't considered to be part of songwriting is obvious: if it were the case I'd have taken lots of million seller songs, rearranged them and claimed songwriter's credit for my version. There are arrangement that can by copyrighted material, such as horn and string arrangements, chorale vocals etc but those are things that are added to the song with their own copyrights and do not become part of the song itself. Every once in a blue moon a court will hold that a certain riff or sound is integral to the song and is therefore considered part of the writing-such as the organ intro to "Whiter Shade Of Pale". But it's rare and is decided on a case by case basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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