An article about a study about practicing

[Janx]

I found this:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D00E1DC1F3DF932A25753C1A962958260&sec=&pagewanted=all

 

The short of it is, lots of hours of practice is what makes champions and masters at chess, sports, or music.

 

The tricky part is being motivated to put all that practice in. Perhaps, that's the "natural talent" factor. Wheras the average person isn't motivated to put that kind of work in.

[Austincowbell]

it helps to not have any friends ;-)

[RupertB]

http://www.newenglandconservatory.edu/studentLife/documents/PracticingandCurrentBrainResearchbyGebrian.pdf

 

1) Shorter sessions every day > Less frequent long sessions.

2) For improving speed: Slow, precise & deliberate > Fast & loose.

3) Quality of sleep important to building coordination & new skills (new neural pathways).

4) "Mental practice" (ie: thinking your way through parts) can make a big difference.

[arf-boy]

My neighbor's brother has hung out a bit with Richard Thompson.

 

A guy approached them one day, saying he'd never been able to learn such-and-such a song.

 

RT said, that's 'cause you're a wanker. I practice eight hours a day.

[Kramerguy]

I think that the bottom line isn't that ANYBODY can be truly great at something just because they practiced it 1000 times harder than someone else. I've known people who played guitar for hours and hours every day, but just never quite "got the feel" of it. But even more, I think the flipside of that is true: That you can't be great unless you practice dutifully.

 

I've known many a bandmate that thought they were the ultimate {censored}, so good that they didn't have to practice the material, and whaddya know... they were the ones who always {censored}ed up songs. It all goes hand in hand. This article kind of states that, but also kind of seems to lean in the direction that "anybody can do anything if they try hard enough" which just isn't true.

[fastplant]

I literally NEVER practice. But I wish I did. I just can't ever seem to find the time and/or motivation. When I do have a few moment's rest I rarely want to spend it practicing. But, really, I should. Maybe reading this article will inspire me to spend some time practicing.

[ctoddrun]

Since the Tool band started getting serious I practice constantly.

 

Every day.

 

 

I'm way ahead of the other guys in the band.

 

To be fair, the drummer is just as dedicated but playing Danny's parts is a whole world harder than playing Adams.

 

 

 

That being said, I dont think I have any natural ability. I dont write songs. Theory is just now coming into focus after 25 years.

 

But one thing is certain. I've progressed a metric ton more in the last three or four years than in all the years prior.

 

Blame that on practice.

[Fernabulax]

practice is for people who lack confidence...

[BATCAT]

I don't practice my instruments by themselves (drums, guitar, vocals) very much at all.

 

The thing for me isn't so much that I have a lack of motivation- it's that I have my own band, plus I play drums in a couple other bands. Between rehearsals, shows, and writing music and lyrics, working 40 hours a week, and taking time to enjoy being with my GF, it just doesn't leave much for practice. I also spend so much writing and at practices that sometimes I just don't want to even think about music and just read or watch a movie.

 

I have scales and vocal-less guitar chords on my iPod, though, and I try to do vocal excercises when I'm walking around in areas where there aren't people around to hear me.

[cleverbastid]

it helps to not have any friends ;-)

 

+1 lol

[Kramerguy]

I don't practice my instruments by themselves (drums, guitar, vocals) very much at all. The thing for me isn't so much that I have a lack of motivation- it's that I have my own band, plus I play drums in a couple other bands. Between rehearsals, shows, and writing music and lyrics, working 40 hours a week, and taking time to enjoy being with my GF, it just doesn't leave much for practice. I also spend so much writing and at practices that sometimes I just don't want to even think about music and just read or watch a movie. I have scales and vocal-less guitar chords on my iPod, though, and I try to do vocal excercises when I'm walking around in areas where there aren't people around to hear me.

 

but if you learn something new, don't you practice it?

 

Every tiem you play it, you are technically practicing. What the article is saying is that if you learn it and practice it at home relentlessly, you will more likely than not nail it at your next rehearsal (assuming you are a decent player to begin with), but if you learn it and don't practice it, you will go to rehearse it unprepared and fumble through it and "learn as you go"

 

Which is what I run into more than not. Drives me nuts too when people come to rehearsals and don't know their parts.

 

So hmm.. I guess in that context, the article is 100% correct.

[SingLoco]

I think that there are many different ways to become a great success and have good accomplishments in the music biz. Remeber, you are what you surround yourself in and also who the company you keep is.

[SunRaFan]

That article is really old. It quotes Herb Simon a lot who died several years ago. I used to work in a building that was named after him.

 

One thing about practicing music is that to improve you do need to keep forcing yourself to work on new things. Once you've gotten a minimal level of competency on guitar, you can sit around all day strumming open chords, and you really aren't going to get any better. Try learning all of the inversions of Cmaj7, and you are going to need a lot of practice.

[pickinatit]

but if you learn something new, don't you practice it? Every tiem you play it, you are technically practicing. What the article is saying is that if you learn it and practice it at home relentlessly, you will more likely than not nail it at your next rehearsal (assuming you are a decent player to begin with), but if you learn it and don't practice it, you will go to rehearse it unprepared and fumble through it and "learn as you go" Which is what I run into more than not. Drives me nuts too when people come to rehearsals and don't know their parts. So hmm.. I guess in that context, the article is 100% correct.

 

Which is why my band has taken forever to put together a song list complete enough to play out (and just when we get there our singer quit!!).

Don't get me wrong, I'm as guilty as the rest of them, but we are spending a lot of time learning songs at rehearsal. Can't be helped though, really. Three of the four of us instrumentalists all work 40-55 hours a week and have families and....well, you know. I doubt we'll never be more ;then a part time,

weekend warrior, passable, small bar band. But that's ok with us, at least for the near future anyway.

[pickinatit]

Here's my take on the natural talent vs practice part of the thread that I know hold true for sports and I think are probably just as valid for music:

 

average talent

avg. talent that practices hard & lots

natural talent

natural talent that practices hard & lots > everybody else.

[wades_keys]

 

Every tiem you play it, you are technically practicing. What the article is saying is that if you learn it and practice it at home relentlessly, you will more likely than not nail it at your next rehearsal (assuming you are a decent player to begin with), but if you learn it and don't practice it, you will go to rehearse it unprepared and fumble through it and "learn as you go"

 

I think a lot of that is dependent on the skill level of the player, and whether they can relate that part to something they've already done.

 

Take a song like "black dog" - I see that lick as just an ascending blues scale with the flat five.

 

I've practiced that scale and those boxes countless times over the years - that means I don't need to sit and practice the "Black Dog" riff, because I can already see those notes and I've already played that scale - I'm relating it back to countless other practices.

 

By contrast, take a song like "Foreplay/Long Time" - those keyboard riffs are right at the very edge of my ability - I would have to practice those riffs every day in order to push my comfort level and technique to the point where I'm ready to play that song in a live setting.

 

The reason for that (besides the fact that I suck on keys lol) is that I don't really have anything else to relate those licks to - they are not standard pentatonic rock fare, they're not based on an ascending or descending scale that I practice, rather they are arpeggiated chords that have specific fingerings unique to that song.

 

I think it pays then to have enough grasp of theory to be able to relate what you're doing in a given song back to what you've worked on foundationally.

 

If you're not practicing scales intelligently, a song with (say) a descending mixolydian lick is not going to relate to anything - instead, you'll be doing the 'paint by numbers approach' - stuck in the box with fingering positions and patterns being the only way you know how to play the lick.

[wades_keys]

Which is why my band has taken forever to put together a song list complete enough to play out (and just when we get there our singer quit!! ). Don't get me wrong, I'm as guilty as the rest of them, but we are spending a lot of time learning songs at rehearsal. Can't be helped though, really. Three of the four of us instrumentalists all work 40-55 hours a week and have families and....well, you know. I doubt we'll never be more ;then a part time, weekend warrior, passable, small bar band. But that's ok with us, at least for the near future anyway.

Yeah, it's tough sometimes.

 

Gotta have goals and direction that are compatible with everybody, and good communication - pick 3 or 4 songs to learn before the next rehearsal, and find a way to get it done.

 

Saturday is my day to learn new tunes for band - I devote 3-4 hours to doing that. If for some reason I can't do that, then I'm hosed in terms of really working up my parts for that next rehearsal. It takes discipline, but it can be done.

 

I work 60 hours a week by the way.

[Dessalines]

 

practice is for people who lack confidence...

 

 

 

Ridiculous.... This means you're Mozart. I really doubt that.

[pickinatit]

practice is for people who lack confidence...

 

In my experience, in all different walks of life, in many varied avenues of endeavor there is never any shortage of extremely self-confident people that

suck at what they do.

[Kramerguy]

 

I think it pays then to have enough grasp of theory to be able to relate what you're doing in a given song back to what you've worked on foundationally. If you're not practicing scales intelligently, a song with (say) a descending mixolydian lick is not going to relate to anything - instead, you'll be doing the 'paint by numbers approach' - stuck in the box with fingering positions and patterns being the only way you know how to play the lick.

 

 

I agree. I frequently practice all the modes/scales as much as I can. My legato has really blossomed because of it.

[wades_keys]

 

But the problem doesn't revolve around you being more than capable of playing the riff. While that does help, one of the finer benefits of practicing that song at least a few times is that you will invariably burn the arrangement into your head.

 

Yes - that is true.

 

I should have also pointed out that as a die hard zep head, I've listened to Black Dog 1000's of times.

 

So the arrangement is not an issue - I KNOW where that song goes because I'm familiar with it - I hear it, and I can play it.

 

Bands I've been in have had more trouble with arrangements during rehearsal due to missed vocal and drum cues than due to any lack of individual practice.

 

But I guess in a sense I could say that those missed drum or vocal cues can come about due to lack of individual rehearsal. But it's just as likely an "interpretation" issue....

 

One example I just dealt with in the variety band: We do "Just Got Paid" by ZZ Top. A dead simple song all in all, but there is a "stop" just prior to the solo where the band lands on the A chord.....

 

We kept missing that stop - not nailing it on the beat - man, it was frustrating. What was happening? So I recorded those failed attempts, and went home and listened to the original. Aha! There's a little drum fill leading up to that chord! Just 3 little drum beats, but when they were removed - trainwreck.

 

I had the drummer listen to that part and we haven't screwed it up since.

[girevik]

Yeah, Michael Jordan, who was known for practicing basketball hours on end, sure had poor self confidence.

 

I just read Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell, which mentions the 10,000 hour thing - all the greats put 10,000 hours into their chosen field. By his measure, playing gigs with your band counts as "practice", because he cites the Beatles racking up their 10,000 hours by playing 8-10 hr/day gigs for a club owner in Hamburg, Germany before they got their big break.

 

Just keep putting time into your music, whether it's writing songs, practicing your songs so you can play them at shows, or the classical-influenced routine (scales, arpeggios, etc.). Unless you die soon, you'll get those 10,000 hours before you know it. I personally am not keeping track of where I'm at in the 10,000 hour thing.

[c4racer]

 

Yeah, Michael Jordan, who was known for practicing basketball hours on end, sure had poor self confidence. I just read Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell, which mentions the 10,000 hour thing - all the greats put 10,000 hours into their chosen field. By his measure, playing gigs with your band counts as "practice", because he cites the Beatles racking up their 10,000 hours by playing 8-10 hr/day gigs for a club owner in Hamburg, Germany before they got their big break. Just keep putting time into your music, whether it's writing songs, practicing your songs so you can play them at shows, or the classical-influenced routine (scales, arpeggios, etc.). Unless you die soon, you'll get those 10,000 hours before you know it. I personally am not keeping track of where I'm at in the 10,000 hour thing.

 

 

Tiger Woods and Michael Phelps are two more great examples of the results that can be achieved with practice. Of course there is some element of natural ability there. But the level of greatness would never have been reached without dedicating their lives to practicing their craft.

 

In music, there is just no substitute for practice - both individual and with a band. It is a highly technical endeavor. The more you can commit what you are doing to muscle memory, the better you will be.

[pickinatit]

 

Tiger Woods and Michael Phelps are two more great examples of the results that can be achieved with practice. Of course there is some element of natural ability there. But the level of greatness would never have been reached without dedicating their lives to practicing their craft. In music, there is just no substitute for practice - both individual and with a band. It is a highly technical endeavor. The more you can commit what you are doing to muscle memory, the better you will be.

 

 

This is just my opinion of course:

Tiger Woods & Michael Phelps are examples of tremendous hours and hours of practice on top of a Stupendously Great amount of natural ability.

Don't forget that Tiger Woods appeared on Late Night TV at the age of four, long before he was old enough to have put in his "10,000 hours".

That's pretty strong evidence of a great amount of natural ability.

 

Michael Phelps even has a "build" all the way down to arm length that give him what some consider to be the final margin between him and the other swimming greats of the world.

 

It's possible to acheive greatness thru practice, but true "best in world class" takes both the practice AND the natural ability. IMO And on top of all that, in sports, don't underestimate the importance of desire/hunger at the crucial moments.

(Don't confuse fame and success with level of virtuosity in the music business. Success in sports on the other hand is more easily measured. You either hit the basket or don't. You either hit .320 lifetime or you don't. You either rush for 1000 yds. or you don't....etc.)

[girevik]

The Outliers book is particularly interesting in that it argues that all great achievers are set up for success by more than just fortunate genetics - it helps to be born to the right parents but it helps even more to be born into the right place, at the right time. Bill Gates just happened to attend the right high school at the right time, so he could get access to that computer (which was rare in the late 1960s). One aspiring lawyer had the misfortune of being born in the 1910s - by all accounts he had all the talent and work ethic to become a great lawyer, but it was a horrible time for him to hit the job market, just after the Great Crash of 1929 - his kid was far more successful, entering law school at a time the population had been depleted by WWII, so less competition...