(free) Internet Tab

[wades_keys]

 

Now _that_ is *bull*. It might be for _you_ more fullfilling freehand painting, but for the kid the other poster referred to he obviously finds nailing covers more fulfilling... GaJ

 

Why is it bull{censored}?

 

Because it's my opinion and I dared to speak it?

 

I guess you'd have to ask the kid how he felt after failing to be able to improvise a simple I, IV, V; something tells me he wasn't so fulfilled falling on his face in front of his friend and his friend's dad - yeah, pretty safe bet.

 

I don't know why you think the 2 concepts are mutually exclusive: if you took the time to read my other post it should be pretty clear to you that I'm not in any way advocating not nailing covers: I'm saying that the paint-by-numbers, put your finger "here" approach is jive and rarely translates into anything usable to you as a player or songwriter.

[6StringSling]

 

I'm saying that the paint-by-numbers, put your finger "here" approach is jive and rarely translates into anything usable to you as a player or songwriter.

 

Really? So if someone shows you how to play a part, that's jive? I mean, how is someone showing you "put your finger here" any different than using tab?

 

I understand what you're saying but you should define it a little more like "put your finger here is going to be pretty useless in the long run if you don't understand the concepts/reasons why you're putting it there".

[BlueStrat]

"But it's on the internet," he says.

What? You mean stuff on the internet can be wrong?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rhat]

 

Really? So if someone shows you how to play a part, that's jive? I mean, how is someone showing you "put your finger here" any different than using tab? I understand what you're saying but you should define it a little more like "put your finger here is going to be pretty useless in the long run if you don't understand the concepts/reasons why you're putting it there".

 

 

 

There isnt anything wrong with tab ,,,, its basically just sheet music. Its a great learning tool. When i was taking guitar lessons, the teacher taught me to read tab. It made those licks he taught me a ton easier to remember when i took the stuff home. A great cover lead is nothing but a series of licks. The key is to learn how to use them over a chord progression and apply them to your own inprov.

[wades_keys]

I understand what you're saying but you should define it a little more like "put your finger here is going to be pretty useless in the long run if you don't understand the concepts/reasons why you're putting it there".

That's what I was trying to say: I thought that was pretty clear in my post too.

 

The thing is: I ain't preaching really - I couldn't give a damn if people think this is bull{censored} or not.

 

I know what works for me, and more importantly, what has been working for students of music for hundreds of years now.

 

A parrot can "speak" english; anybody can learn a phrase or 2 in a foreign language.

 

To really be fluent in a language requires understanding of grammar and context: we can choose to be parrots, or we can choose to learn to speak.

 

I'm still learning....

[wades_keys]

 

There isnt anything wrong with tab ,,,, its basically just sheet music. Its a great learning tool. When i was taking guitar lessons, the teacher taught me to read tab. It made those licks he taught me a ton easier to remember when i took the stuff home. A great cover lead is nothing but a series of licks. The key is to learn how to use them over a chord progression and apply them to your own inprov.

 

Right - that's what I'm saying.

 

If you have some understanding and take the time to understand the notes you're playing and relate them back to something you already know, it can be a really wonderful way to learn.

 

Most people don't relate well to numbers (fret numbers): visual patterns, note names, and scale degrees are a lot easier to internalize....

[GreenAsJade]

Why is it bull{censored}?

 

I took your analogy of landscapes vs paint by numbers to be saying that improvisation (landscape) is more fullfilling than note-for-note sound-for-sound reproducing someone else's music (paint by numbers).

 

And such a statement is indeed bull{censored}.

 

If it was meant to say "I personally find improvisation more fullfililng than covering", no-one could argue with that.

 

However, what it appeared to be saying is that in general one would find

improvisation more fulfilling than covering. Ultimately, this is the ole covers vs originals again, which I was shooting down.

 

Because it's my opinion and I dared to speak it?

 

I hope you see that if you were saying your _experience_ is that

improvisation is more fulfilling, I can fully relate to that.

 

But if have the opinion that for everyone improvisation is the ultimate

goal, and pity anyone who spends their time covering, because they

will be lacking fulfilment ... this opinion is bull, no matter who holds it, IMHO

 

I don't know why you think the 2 concepts are mutually exclusive: if you took the time to read my other post it should be pretty clear to you that I'm not in any way advocating not nailing covers: I'm saying that the paint-by-numbers, put your finger "here" approach is jive and rarely translates into anything usable to you as a player or songwriter.

 

It sounds like I took "paint by numbers" further than you intended. If you just meant "people looking to tabs and placing their fingers where the tab says", then I agree that this is neither musical nor likely to be fulfilling for most people.

 

However, what we heard is that the kid _nails_ songs. I imagine that would be very fulfilling. I personally work hard to achieve that and feel fulfilled at the rare times I do.

 

GaJ

[rocknhard]

You sound bitter...I bet there is a post on the internet about you where he says "I was in a band with a disagreeable ass&$@ named ____"

 

 

I was in a band with a disagreeable asshole named Dave. For my "audition" he sent me 5 songs to learn. One of them was "Hey You" by BTO. So we start with that. It sounds really weird and terrible. So we stop, look at each other, and go again (he's on bass, by the way). It's terrible. So I say, "Something's wrong." "You didn't learn the song," Dave says. "I did, though. What are you playing?" So he runs and gets this tab. I'm looking at it and it's not even close to what the song is. I mean, not even close. It starts on an F# where the song starts at an Am. The simple three chord verse thay have wrong, too. Wrong key, wrong progression, wrong everything. Then all of a sudden it clicks. This is the tab for "You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet." So I say, "This is the wrong song." Dave rolled his eyes. "Oh. So you're right and the entire internet is wrong." "In this case, yes." I tell him. He will not be swayed. We play the song on a cd and he listens to it and tries to play along and can't. I play it and it sounds fine. "But it's on the internet," he says. I'm not in that band.

 

[GreenAsJade]

Hmm - were you meaning I sound bitter?

 

I re-read what I wrote & I don't see bitter in there, and I don't _feel_ bitter!

 

But I guess bitter is as bitter does ... if it seems bitter to you then I must be bitter!

 

I'm only somewhat intolerant of an attitude that improvisation is superior to recreation. This seems to be a superiority complex carried by creative artists. This seems to be an attitude common in rock, yet not in other fields. For example, the finest classical musicians spend their life reproducing the works of classical composers, not composing themselves.

 

It was the implication of looking down at the kid who can nail other people's work that I took objection to. I acknowledge that wade pointed out that it isn't what he meant, so that's all good.

 

GaJ

[wades_keys]

 

However, what we heard is that the kid _nails_ songs. I imagine that would be very fulfilling.

 

See above...

 

But ultimately like I said it's cool - people can do what they want, it's all good.

 

But when they hit that brick wall of frustration, and "playing music" becomes just the latest fad to put away and move on to something else, then maybe they should consider learning a little more about how to really play the instrument and understand the music.

 

I went through this myself - wasted a lot of years stealing licks and putting my fingers where they were "supposed to go" - like a parrot.

[mstreck]

I went through this myself - wasted a lot of years stealing licks and putting my fingers where they were "supposed to go" - like a parrot.

 

Guilty

[V-man]

I go out at random and buy some books. Then I go on the free tabs and compare them with the published works. When somebody writes a fairly decent approximation of the tab, I look up the screen name and I email that person due praise. When it's a {censored} tab, I look up the screen name and email that person praise asking if there might be interest in tabbing out some more songs for me (in exchange for a fair price). We agree on a price and I then mail a venomous snake to the person's house for {censored}ing it up in the first place.

[Bodyguard2112]

I've played with some veteran musicians, who I have heard live, and who are much better than I... who learned by ear.

 

Sometimes they learn by ear very well. Other times what they are trying to learn by ear is not so obvious, especially if its in a thick mix.

 

Some guys who never looked it up, think that you play an "A" chord in 12 bar blues in E. It sounds best, of course, with an A7.

 

Ear guys are not all perfect, no matter how long they've played, and how good they are.

 

But yes, I have found the tabs online to be... not always so reliable.

[wades_keys]

Ear guys are not all perfect, no matter how long they've played, and how good they are.

Right.

 

Same goes for those that sat down and created the tabs in the first place, by ear.

 

I tell you what, I trust Dave Whitehill's ear, though I don't think he's doing as much transcribing these days.

 

Ultimately I'd rather cop the feel and phrasing than the exact notes anyway; understanding of course that I'm not interested in playing notes that clash with the other instruments, which really all comes back to having a fundamental understanding of music.

[tim_7string]

 

I'm only somewhat intolerant of an attitude that improvisation is superior to recreation. This seems to be a superiority complex carried by creative artists. This seems to be an attitude common in rock, yet not in other fields. For example, the finest classical musicians spend their life reproducing the works of classical composers, not composing themselves.

 

 

This is an interesting comment. It is truly all about one's perspective.

 

I have a few students that simply want to reproduce a song as well as they can, but if asked to improvise over chords, they are terrified. Even when I try to gently encourage them, they feel really stupid doing it. And, to be fair, some of them don't "get it." But I discovered recently that one did get it and I think she even surprised herself. In the few notes that she chose, she naturally gravitated towards tones that complimented the chord at that moment, even during the change to a different chord! It was pretty cool.

 

But the more I teach, the more I realize everyone is different and it's perfectly fine if some just want to learn songs note-for-note and not come up with their own stuff. I also have students who find learning songs boring, but love to come up their own riffs and ideas. So, I change the curriculum accordingly to accommodate their needs so they enjoy music rather than abhor it.

[jonPhillips]

 

I go out at random and buy some books. Then I go on the free tabs and compare them with the published works. When somebody writes a fairly decent approximation of the tab, I look up the screen name and I email that person due praise. When it's a {censored} tab, I look up the screen name and email that person praise asking if there might be interest in tabbing out some more songs for me (in exchange for a fair price). We agree on a price and I then mail a venomous snake to the person's house for {censored}ing it up in the first place.

 

 

Pissin' meself...

[MaxKincaide]

I'm actually somewhat of a product of {censored}-tabs. I played music in school, and know how to read music...for the trumpet. For some reason, I never sat down and applied that knowledge to the guitar...instead, I decided that I wanted to play songs, and I wanted to play them NOW. I "didn't have time to learn the real way".

 

So I learned to read tab, which is very helpful in the right settings, and started looking up all the free {censored} I could. But, like anything else in life, you get what you pay for.

 

The cool thing about it was that I would end up using the {censored}-tab as a basis for how the song was supposed to go, and then go back and play over the CD with what the tab said to play. If it didn't match, it at least got me in the ballpark to figure the rest out on my own.

 

Looking back, I was just too lazy to figure the songs out by ear, and too lazy to actually learn how to read music...something I'm having to backtrack to fix now.

[wades_keys]

 

Some guys who never looked it up, think that you play an "A" chord in 12 bar blues in E. It sounds best, of course, with an A7.

 

The A chord in the key of E is not the dominant chord.

 

It can most certainly be played straight, and there are countless examples of blues tunes that do this.

 

Listen to "Pride and Joy" - SRV goes to a straight IV chord and only brings in the 7th alteration towards the end of the bar to turn it back around to the I.

 

Had he gone straight to the 7th the impact would be lessened...

 

Listen to "The Lemon Song" - there's no 7th alteration on the IV chord in that song: in fact, it's more of a 9th vibe because of the open B and E strings ringing out on top of the A chord.

 

The dominant chord in key of E is B; as such the 7th is called for there, but again not always required.

 

Again, I'll use "Pride and Joy": SRV goes right to the 7th alteration of the V chord in that tune.

 

That's not to say that the IV chord can't be played as a 7th - it can; but overuse of the 7th alteration leads to extremely cliched playing.

 

That said - Blues ain't about a set of rules, it's about feel.

 

For that matter, all chords in a blues can be played as sevenths: "Beer Drinkers and Hell Raisers" is a good example of that.

 

7ths don't alter the quality of the chord - they embellish it so there is really no hard and fast rule as to when they can and can't be used.

[Z_Zoquis]

I used tabs quite a bit up to about 3 years ago. I'd always simply assumed I didn't have the ear nor the skills to figure stuff out by ear. But, over the past few years I've come to realize that its not really any sort of "black art" to figure most rock songs out - and the ready availability of software that allows you to slow parts down is a huge factor. Now I'm pretty good at it. I don't think I've used a tab in about 2 years. In the rare case where something in a song is indecipherable due to the mix or whatever, I can usually come up with something reasonably close that would work in any live performance. The thing about learning by ear is that the more you do it, the better you get at it. I'm getting so I can hear a song on the radio and figure a fair bit of it out in my head before I even get the chance to sit down with the guitar. I think using your ears gets you more familiar with the tonality of the guitar more quickly. I also find I can memorize the songs map alot quicker by ear than if I used tabs. It seemed to take alot longer to sink in with tabs...

 

 

Theres definitely a huge quality range with internet tabs. It's usually easy though to distinguish the ones done by guys who have a clue from the ones done by the 13 years olds who've been playing for 6 months.