Band politics and what to do about it.

[dfibraio]

I could use some nonbiased advice. IN order to understand my situation, let me try to sum everything up as succinctly as I can. Sadly, this may be a long post, so try to bear with me, but everything is needed to understand my current situation. i will not name the band I am currently in or any other bands to protect them, not that you'd know them anyway, but just in case.

 

Firstly, some background on me. I am almost 35 years old. Been a keyboard player and bvocalist for 30 or so of those years. I started playing in bands at about 14, or so. I am totally blind. I began playing and getting paid in rock bands at 19. Being blind, one has to rely on others for transportation where I live in central New Jersey. I have gone from one half assed band to another without getting very far. I seem to have the knack for drawing a lot of attention to myself in any band I play in due to my blindness, but also due to the fact that I have spent a lot of time on my technique and skill. I am mostly self taught, but over time I have learned to play very complex music like Dream Theater, even playing in a QueensRyche tribute band simulating second guitar. I suppose it is hard not to notice that. I am probably the anal retentive perfectionist in the band, typically relating to my parts. I spend a lot of time sampling stuff from CD if I can't recreate it myself, putting all my sounds in order and making sure I can play through practice or any set without too much of a hitch. This is because, since I cannot see the screen of my gear, I have to rely on organization and memory. Since I also am slave to what vehicle the driver, usually other people in the band, drives, I have to not allow my gear to spiral into Rick Wakeman multikeyboard setups. I try to stay to 2 keyboards. My drummer from my current band stores a bunch of my auxiliary gear at his house, mainly stands, speakers and extra pedals, to make the transportation easier. Currently, in my band, the singer who drives a Pontiac sunfire, a small car, is transporting me and what I do bring to practice. This currently consists of a Yamaha motif xs7 in a hard shell case, sometimes a Korg m3 in a hard shell case, a line6 pod x3 live that I run my motif into for better guitar sounds. sometimes I bring my roland ax1 keytar as well, although I typically leave that home and only bring it to gigs.

 

The band I currently play in is an off shoot of the old QueensRyche tribute band I played in from summer 2004 until the singer broke us up in august 2007. At the time, we were on the verge of some booking deals with management, so I am told, and the singer just walked away from the band. Now, being from NJ, where the music scene that thrived in the 80s is slowly sinking into the {censored} house, there are not a lot of places left to play that aren't holes in the wall, and the band selection is even less. I've outgrown playing three chord songs. My style has gone beyond being your average keyboard player who plays brown eye girl and is barely heard by the crowd due to poor sound. I love playing prog rock and classic rock and since I can cover guitar sounds as well, metal. I also love singing. I do backing vocals and used to do leads in previous bands, but that kind of stopped. Anyway, when I have searched for new bands to play in, I get bands like your average party band that plays stuff that bores me, or they expect me to just do bonjovi parts or no parts at all half the night, or you get people who when they hear you are blind, find excuses not to even try you out. I have played with the same guys in slightly different configurations for 10 years, mainly because they have been cool enough to accept my limitations, i.e. driving, in favor of the fact that apparently I am a kick ass keyboard player. But there are problems and they are coming to a head at this point.

 

The current band got together, again, an offshoot of the old band, last year. IN one year, we've played one gig. We've practiced on and off, more off than on, really over the last year. The band has changed direction multiple times. At first, we were doing QueensRyche, dream Theater and a bunch of other things from Ozzy to Genesis to savatage and a lot of that stuff. Then, we took on a male singer in addition to the female singer and when we got our first gig, everything we had learned was scrapped with the exception of the queensRyche and dream Theater. We had some more Dream Theater dropped on us, basically without being asked, by the guitar player who seems to have taken on the leader of the band title without warning. So, I panicked, as I had to learn this stuff in 2 months. Somehow, I managed to learn 4 dream theater songs from the jordan rudess era and we played the gig just fine. Weeks go by, we get together, watch the video and discuss our next direction. since we were making headway as a queensRyche tribute, to not throw that work away, it was discussed that we'd continue with the QueensRyche stuff and focus exclusively on that. However, specific songs were not really agreed upon. Now for me, this is an issue because I have to put setups and different keyboard splits together, program sounds, sample sound effects from the CD if needed, etc, so not knowing what to do is a problem for me, because I don't want to spend time working on a song that we aren't doing in favor of stuff we are doing. this kind of work takes a while. I use a computer that talks and plug the keyboard into it where I have editor software that works with my screen reader to assist me in setting up the keyboard. However, I am sure I am not as efficient as a sighted person who can read the screen. So, last night, I bring my one keyboard to practice and the guitar player wants to still go over the Dream theater stuff. This to me, is a change from the plan from a couple of weeks ago. Further to the problem, I had wanted to sing lead on one song. The guys seemed OK with it and I learned the words. When it was about time to do the song, guitar player has an issue with me singing. I had already had a bad day as it was, so it turned into verbal sniping, where the guitar player tried to pull rank, I have no idea what he was going on about as I was not listening anymore as I was naturally angry. the rest of practice was spent trying to play songs on one keyboard that I needed two to do properly. I didn't say much for the rest of practice. ON the way home, I expressed my feelings to the female singer, but she thinks I am being too anal and I worry too much about being a perfectionist. I don't feel like I am being heard at this point because it is not about being a perfectionist, it is about being organized and having a plan and not having surprises thrown at me and changing {censored} around every other week. I try to be considerate and not bring more gear than I need to bring as setup takes a while and we only have a short amount of practice time due to my drummer living in a residential area.

 

Now, friends of mine who are musicians, not in Jersey but in Nashville, tell me to quit and find other bands. This leads back to our first problem. The last band that our female singer was trying to get me into won't even audition me because I can't use pro tools and ableton live to trigger things on stage, even though I have modern workstations that can do what these programs are doing, I think. They are slave to the technology. I know, pot meet kettle, right?

 

I don't live in a musically rich area. NJ is a dying musical state. The days of Bruce Springsteen and Bon Jovi are over. Most of the good clubs are dead except one. IN NJ, you have to drive to go anywhere, it's not like NY or nashville where apparently everything is a cab ride away and close by. I can't make my friends understand this.

 

All I want to do is get into a band that will not restrict me, that will let me play and sing, that is serious and not out to get drunk at every practice and gig and not be a bunch of {censored} offs. I take music seriously. I have put 31 years into my instrument and sometimes I feel like I am the only one who cares if we sound good or not. Especially if there is scotch or southern comfort in the room. Maybe it is a confidence issue, due to being judged by my disability for too long, but I am not interested in quitting the band to sit on my ass. I did that from the end of 2007 through this past february and it was the worst hell imaginable, not playing out, but I don't want to be in a situation where I am not taken seriously or listened to and made to feel like I am slave to a band that can't make up its mind in the first place. I've thought of starting my own band up, but maybe I am impatient in finding the right musicians, not to mention I have no where to practice as I live in a house that isn't set up to have a band come in with drums and pa systems and such. People have encouraged me to just go solo, but I don't really want to play to sequencers, and I don't see a crowd going for that, plus my voice wouldn't really hold up for a night of singing.

 

So, if you're still with me, does anybody have ideas on how best to approach this? I don't want to screw up years worth of work and this is really the first real conflict in the band in its history over almost 5 years now. I do like playing with these guys and they are awesome musicians. There is so much potential, and it burns my ass that we aren't meeting it. My guitar player, who I suppose is the head of the band is not easy to talk to and can be kind of intimidating. And yet, usually we get along and we have a great musical chemistry on stage that I don't really want to lose.

 

Have any of you dealt with stuff like this? I know there may not be a lot of blind musicians out here so my story may not resonate with you completely, but what do you think I should do?

[IsildursBane]

Hey Damon, I remember you from when I used to get the ytsejam e-mail list years ago.

 

What about starting/hiring a band where you're the leader and everybody else works for you?

 

-Dan.

[dreadheaded]

any issues i have had with my current band have always been sorted out by chatting to the singer and guitarist, both of who are good friends of mine, but being good friends i think makes them easier to talk to

 

our band is kind of a democracy so im not sure how much this applies but you need to try and get the guitarist and have a chat with him about your issues, if your getting frustrated things will only get worse.

 

 

i think if you are tactfull with your issues im sure he will be willing to listen, after all you are only trying to make the band better.

 

 

and from here it sounds like your being very reasonable trying to be properly organised i cant imagine how hard it must be setting everything up being blind, and even if you could see there is nothing wrong with being well organised, if anything that is our main weakness

 

good luck

[wades_keys]

Your band has no true leader, so ego is filling that void.

 

Try to tactfully suggest - and tact is very important - that your band spend 10 minutes or so after practice talking about what the goals are for the next week.

 

Follow up with e-mails.

 

Get setlists and work of off those.

 

Otherwise, somebody has to call the tune, and it sounds like that somebody is the guitarist.

 

Goals and direction are needed.

[SpaceNorman]

As a fellow keyboard player - I can empathize with your issues about practicing on "a partial rig" and the headache that changing a practice plan around mid-stream can turn into. I've played with guitar players who would not attempt certain songs without the axe they've chosen to play that particular tune on - and could only shake my head when they couldn't understand that there were tunes that I couldn't play all the parts on because I only had one of my two keyboards available to me at practice. These days I give all my project a simple choice - a) I'll practice wherever you want to - however, I'll only be bringing 1 keyboard with me - or b) we can practice in my rehearsal space where I'll have ALL my keyboards. (Note that my rehearsal space also has a drum kit, bass amp, and full PA for vocals.) If it's option A - they'll simply have to get used to my modified parts and limited sound selection.

 

As far as changes to practice plans go ... I learn what we said we were going to learn. If somebody decides we need to abandon the plan on work on something else - I simply remind them that isn't what we said we were going to work on and that I prepared for whatever we originally targeted - and then happily shift gears. Everybody has to be flexible ... plans get made, things change, plans get changed ... that's just part of playing in a band made of folks with day jobs and families. However, if the group is abandoning the plan for every rehearsal - it quickly becomes a factor to consider when evaluating whether or not I plan to stick around for long.

[dfibraio]

I've thought of starting up a band, but the headaches involved, finding musicians that play at the level I want, where to rehearse and of course the blindness bias, just have not made it a project I want to deal with. I could hang out in guitar center and listen for good musicians, but that isn't likely as again, transportation is an issue and getting around the store independently is also a problem. I have tried being tactful and people barely let me finish a sentence before shooting me down. I think it has a lot to do with guitar players and singers and the like who don't understand how much techynical it is when you play a keyboard versus a guitar or singing, there is programming involved as well as playing. Granted, some guitarists can get nuts with effects and such, but noboyd I have ever played with has been tha anal about their sound like I am. Maybe it's me, and maybe they are right and I am putting way too much into this, especially for a practice. I usually will wing whatever songs they want to play, but again, it's the communication or lack there of that is a problem, and it is stressful to try to find sounds when they are scattered all over the place and you can't read the display to know if you're ven right. I guess my practice philosophy is different from theirs. I really think it boils down to them not understanding my issues completely and not being sensitive to it. But I may be wrong. I am trying also not to paint the band out to be the bad guy here, either.

[wades_keys]

 

As far as changes to practice plans go ... I learn what we said we were going to learn. If somebody decides we need to abandon the plan on work on something else - I simply remind them that isn't what we said we were going to work on and that I prepared for whatever we originally targeted - and then happily shift gears.

 

I have and will continue to happily refuse to play a song that is throwing me a curveball like the original poster describes.

 

That usually teaches em to stop with the curveballs.

 

I don't get upset, I just leave the room and take a smoke break.

 

I don't mind jamming or goofing around, but if it's a song that requires a specialized keyboard patch and ahead-of-time preparation, I won't even attempt it. Like the OP, I have all of my patches lined up, programmed and ready to go on a song-by-song basis.

 

I don't use stock patches for anything, and I will not be digging through all of my presets to find something that is "close enough" just to satisfy somebody's desire to "jam".

 

Unless of course the sound is stone simple, like a straight piano or B3.

 

Even then, if I feel we should be concentrating on our sets, I won't go along for the jam ride - that's just a distraction and gets the band nowhere.

[dfibraio]

To address something somebody else wrote, I have suggested we talk after practice, that sometimes happens and some times doesn't. Guitar player doesn't own a computer and he is the self proclaimed leader of the band .Go figure. I've even offered to put a computer together for him from parts and he declined. So, our so-called leader is out of the communications loop. Again, all I want to know is what we are supposed to be, what songs we will be working on overall and I am good. I don;'t know why this is such a problem and why things keep changing and why the agenda of this band is never discussed.

 

OK, sorry, I am ranting. i do that sometimes.

[wades_keys]

Then stop accommodating them - just don't play anything at all, and let them get their silly little side-track out of their system on their own.

 

Do this consistently, and with no emotion.

 

Trust me - it works.

 

All you need is a setlist - you'll need that for gigs, right?

 

So instead of making the setlist a "solution" to your problem, put together setlists so you all can prepare to gig. DO the work yourself - show, don't tell.

 

For sure the guitarist will want to make changes - okay, make the changes.

 

Now it's time to play through the sets. Keep track of where you left off, and next week pick up from there.

 

Done.

 

Now tell me, how can anyone in the band be opposed to getting gig ready and playing through sets?

 

Now you've solved your problem without drawing attention to it, and you'll have buy-in from the other band members.

 

You all can still jam around - but play through an entire set first, take a break, then do some jamming if that's what you wanna do.

 

Nobody says that you have to jam along - let em have their fun.

[tim_7string]

This sounds very much like my experiences as a keyboard player from 1986 to 1992, especially the flak I received when I expressed an interest in singing a song or two. I tried to find people that could play well (and they could), but their personalities were not always the best and my input and ideas were often dismissed.

 

You need to find like-minded people. It sounds like they are all not quite there. It is very cool that you have found people that will give you rides and store your equipment there, though.

 

I would suggest you form your own band. If you can, try to convince those specific people that are helping you now to join your new project. Then, you can do what makes you happy, without some guitar player trying to bully you or some singer telling you that you're too anal. She may be the laid-back type that can't handle someone who is very dedicated and has a lot of passion and drive. The guitarist might feel threatened by your ability on the keyboard and wants to make sure his own vision is #1 before anyone else's ideas.

 

Sure, it's scary and it sucks to find people on your own, but it's also more fulfilling than trying to fit into some small box that other people want to put you in. You already know your talent is too big to be contained in such a limited fashion. Express yourself the way you want to and you will be infinitely happier.

[dfibraio]

I don't know if I am coming across correctly. I have no issues with jamming or trying a new song out of nowhere, really. I guess what has me more pissed is that one minute we're a queensryche tribute band, the next we're doing dream theater when we didn't say we were going to, and then the guitarist gets all feisty with me because I didn't bring the second keyboard. Well, when somebody gets pissy with me, i return fire because I am trying to think of the person who has to haul my gear and if I don't need that second keyboard, I am not bringing it as it is a bitch to break it down, wedge it into the car, set it up at practice and such. So, I guess the issue is the attitude problem combined with the moving target that is the definition of what the band is. I am all for jamming on pieces out of nowhere. I just don't appreciate the attitude I am getting when I am told one thing, prep for that and then the plans change and I am not ready and it is suddenly my fault? Even with the idea of doing the lead vocals on a particular song, I know we have two singers, but if people didn't want me to sing the damn song, they should have said something before I spent time learning the words, and then also it is in how things are addressed. I do all the really high backing vocals in my band. I suppose that's all right, but god forbid I do a lead. Yes, we have a male and female vocalist. They don't seem to give a damn if I sing, so why should the guitar player?

 

Again, I had a bad day before coming to practice in the first palce so maybe that attributed to my own feelings on the matter, but I just feel left out of the loop and also a few other things like lack of appreciation and I don't like being talked down to like I am somebody else's child. That's my main issue with this whole thing overall. Again, I know I could just quit, but for one, I don't want to deal with the discrimination I get from other people without even hearing me play first, plus finding bands that do decent material is a nightmare. No offense to you classic rockers out there, but I can't play old time rock and roll anyore without wanting to put a gun in my mouth and pull the trigger. I'd have to drink myself sighted first.

[wades_keys]

Again, your band needs setlists.

 

Make setlists: it's all about getting gig ready, right?

 

You're making this harder than it has to be Damian.

 

Get setlists and watch all of these issues fade away.

 

Good luck.

[tim_7string]

 

Again, your band needs setlists. Make setlists: it's all about getting gig ready, right? You're making this harder than it has to be Damian. Get setlists and watch all of these issues fade away. Good luck.

 

 

Wade is onto something here. That was a real problem in the band I left back in February. The lead singer would always say he should make a setlist. After a while, I got tired of him saying it and I'd answer, "Yes you should!" He acted like they were the worst things in the world or something. He would rather do songs off the cuff. Trouble is, he's 65 years old and has been playing for probably half a century. He knows literally hundreds, maybe even thousands, of songs. To expect a band to know all of those...well, it isn't realistic. The band I had before that one, we had specific setlists printed out for each venue we played. Every time we went back, we would follow it about 80% with some variation. It gave us something to work with. We weren't chained to it, but it put our energy into the show rather than "gee, what's next? I dunno" amateur hour bull{censored}.

 

Anyway, back to you. I believe if you give everybody setlists that include the Dream Theater and Queensryche songs in the order you're going to be performing them, it will suddenly focus the band practices.

 

As for the guitarist, you're just going to have to have a one-on-one with him if you don't want to quit the band and form your own group. Try to figure out where you two can meet in the middle so you can at least work with each other. Also, express your frustration at not being allowed to sing the song you worked on with the entire band, but especially the vocalists.

[dfibraio]

I've suggested that. We don't have any gigs coming up so it is harder to set up a set list. Well, there's the one in July. That's another joke though.

 

I have been trying to get even a master song list together so I can just have everything programmed in and that even seems elusive. I think I may just make extra work for myself and program every possible QueensRyche songs that we at least used to do, plus the few names that have been thrown around in practice and be ready. Since we aren't practicing for another month, don't even ask, I'll have planey of time to figure out what I am doing going forward.

[SpaceNorman]

 

I have and will continue to happily refuse to play a song that is throwing me a curveball like the original poster describes. That usually teaches em to stop with the curveballs. I don't get upset, I just leave the room and take a smoke break. I don't mind jamming or goofing around, but if it's a song that requires a specialized keyboard patch and ahead-of-time preparation, I won't even attempt it. Like the OP, I have all of my patches lined up, programmed and ready to go on a song-by-song basis. I don't use stock patches for anything, and I will not be digging through all of my presets to find something that is "close enough" just to satisfy somebody's desire to "jam". Unless of course the sound is stone simple, like a straight piano or B3. Even then, if I feel we should be concentrating on our sets, I won't go along for the jam ride - that's just a distraction and gets the band nowhere.

 

 

I think we have the same sentiment - although the way you word it sounds alot harsher and inflexible than I'd ever put it. I'll cut my bandmates some slack in terms of prep every now and then (we're all family guys with day gigs - which means there are times when somebody comes in without having done their homework). If somebody say "Hey, sorry guys I just couldn't get to it ... we need to work on something else this week" - I don't have a problem with that - provided it's not the same guy with the same story week after week.

 

I'm also pretty picky about my patches and sounds - yet by the same token, I'm not willing to drag my entire rig to "away" rehearsals. I'll carry 1 keyboard (usually my RD700SX) to a rehearsal - and will play songs on straight piano patches - even though the "gig patch" may in fact be something that's layered voices on my CP300

 

and midi controlled Motif ES Rack unit. If we're rehearsing any place other than my house - well...we get what we get in terms of sounds.

 

As I said - I think we're coming from the same place - althought I can help but think how you've expressed it comes off sounding a little harsh and inflexible.

[MartinC]

You can sing and play! Why are you spending time with a band that's not out gigging? Get an assistant to help you with your gear and stuff and go out and play solo. Soon you will have a band around you if that's what you want. In the meantime, you should be gigging. If you really love the band, you can stay with them-just don't give them all your time and energy. theres a lot of opportunity for a guy who can sing and play well.

[rhat]

 

You can sing and play! Why are you spending time with a band that's not out gigging? Get an assistant to help you with your gear and stuff and go out and play solo. Soon you will have a band around you if that's what you want. In the meantime, you should be gigging. If you really love the band, you can stay with them-just don't give them all your time and energy. theres a lot of opportunity for a guy who can sing and play well.

 

 

 

You got that right... the primo gig for a keyboard player is a solo piano bar gig. My old drummers dad sent two kids to college playing a steady organ and piano bar. He was there for years. A really good solo act is being totally in the drivers seat.

[Philbigtime]

You complain of "blindness bias". In my world, if you are good, you play. If your bandmates can't reconcile the fact that they have to drive you around with the fact that you're a killer keys player, you don't need to be playing with these guys. The lead singer-slash-bandleader in my band is paraplegic and has been confined to a wheelchair for about 14 years. While those two situations are clearly quite different, they are the same in that a natural bias exisits. Guess what? This guy can sing his {censored}ing heart out, and also has the interpersonal skills to run a fairly large band. I pretty much forgot he was in a wheelchair about 5 minutes after I met him. If the dudes that you play with can't make accomodations for your disability, then you need to leave those losers and find some guys that are genuinely willing to go places with their music. It took Hector (my lead vocalist) about 10 years to find a group of people to do what he wanted to do. Just keep at it, brother, and good luck!

[wades_keys]

 

If somebody say "Hey, sorry guys I just couldn't get to it ... we need to work on something else this week" - I don't have a problem with that - provided it's not the same guy with the same story week after week.

 

Yeah, that's the ticket.

 

But if they're in the middle of a jam, it's kinda hard to say much of anything.

 

So I'll just nip off for a smoke and let em do their thing. Like I said, the key is I don't get emotional at all - they wanna jam, that's cool - I'm just not prepared to join at that time.

 

Not to say that I won't jam from time to time, but there's a time and a place for that.

 

I keep the drama to a minimum - that's the key.

[Philbigtime]

To me, jam sessions are very important. Just not nearly as important as getting down a new song. However, many of our new song ideas have come from impromptu jam sessions.