What's the world coming to?

[Nijyo]

 

It's supposed to be loud, and it's not supposed to sound good (it's a Metal fest) :poke:

 

 

Herein, ladies and gents, is why 99.44% of all metal sucks these days.

 

Musicality and metal are not mutually exclusive. It's just that most metal bands in this day and age wouldn't know musicality if it was knocking on their back door with a dremel tool.

[mahon451]

Quit whining. Seriously. Guitarists have to be the most nitpicky mother{censored}ers in the world.

 

Personally, I've played countless gigs where the backline was provided, and oftentimes with sub-par equipment (imagine playing death metal through a Blues Junior... yech). But, I always manage (sometimes with the help of pedals) to get a tone that will at least carry me through the set. 90% of the time, the audience doesn't give a drippy {censored} whether you're rokkin' a Diezel or a Line 6 anyway.

 

Besides, based on what I've seen, most bands (especially metal bands) that have fancy equipment STILL sound like {censored}, and should probably take the money they spent on those Mesa stacks and invest it in some lessons or something.

[Lee Knight]

Wake the Dead, I think we're all actually sympathetic to your plight. And most have us have been there. It is a bit scary to have gear ruled out. And the idea of having to use provided backline. Bluestrat makes the point that a lot of times the backline is very good. A lot of times it is. And of course a lot of times it isn't. But these are the same contraints everybody will be under. It's surprising what you can do if you're ready for it.

Number one: make sure you can get your guitar tones with pedals. Don't depend on the amp providing your tone. Just do a little homework and get your pedals in order for worst case scenario. Regarding the doujble pedal issue... once again, all drummers are similarly restricted. So there's the fun. Here's your chance to show off to the other bands and shine under the restrictions.

Just try to change your point of view on this and it really can be a boost to your band's ego. Go in and kick serious ass regardless of the conditions.

Let the other bands whine. You guys be ready instead.

[MaxKincaide]

Quit whining. Seriously. Guitarists have to be the most nitpicky mother{censored}ers in the world.

 

 

...hey, hey, now.....

 

 

Let the other bands whine. You guys be ready instead.

 

 

This ^^ + 1

[ChordGirl]

Herein, ladies and gents, is why 99.44% of all metal sucks these days. Musicality and metal are not mutually exclusive. It's just that most metal bands in this day and age wouldn't know musicality if it was knocking on their back door with a dremel tool.

Are you sure it's not the singer?

[Nijyo]

Are you sure it's not the singer?

 

The singer is knocking on their back door?

 

But yes, the singer is also part of the issue. Metal has been infected with the "I'm more than you!" one-upmanship since the early 1990's, at the expense of making listenable, enjoyable music. It never really seems to occur to a lot of metal bands that most of the "classic" metal bands tuned down only sporadically. And don't get me started on the lack of melody lines in metal these days (even Slayer and Morbid Angel had melody lines... they were frequently atonal, but they weren't just noise).

 

I dunno where metal musicians got the idea that you can't be heavy and intelligible at the same time. So many metal songs these days are just assemblies of riffs with no musical narrative to the composition, and that's BEFORE we get to the wall-of-sound mastering nonsense. Is it because they don't care? Or because they don't know (do we blame the increasing lack of music classes in grade/high schools?)

 

Alas, I'm just rehashing one of many discussions about the pointlessness of teh br00tlz (the irony being that Dethklok plays at being uber br00tl and is some of the best metal I've heard in years).

 

But, enough out of me. I agree with Lee.

[Austincowbell]

It's supposed to be loud, and it's not supposed to sound good (it's a Metal fest) :poke:

Music in general needs to at LEAST be leveled out. I like metal but I don't want to hear a bass player at 3, a guitarist at 9, a singer at 4 and a drummer with a snare at 4 and a kick drum at 2 because he has a small kick drum. I've played backline with a Blues Jr, Rivera and a marshall half-stack (a few times). I've never had {censored}ty backline gear provided. Ever. I think in this instance they would be afraid to go Crate on the backline just because its not reliable and it DOES sound like {censored} before the metalhead-wanna-be kids even start playing through it.

Would I rather play my own drumkit and guitar amp? Sure. But honestly, my gear is never going to define my songs. Iron Man played on a $80 Wal Mart guitar is still Iron Man and its still bad ass

[vanlatte]

As fast as he could, over and over again, during every song, with a snare hit on the 3rd and a hat on the f1st and 3rd? Then a "chorus" which revolves around gravity blasting the snare while riding the bell of the ride and rolling on the bass drum?

Of course not; he wanted it to sound good.

Dur!



:poke:

[Thrashy]

I gotta agree, As a guitarist your tone is in your hands, not the name plate on the amp. Give Dave mustaine and Kerry king the exact same rig and they will each sound completely different. You really should be able to sound like yourself on any rig. If not maybe it isn't time to be playing shows yet.

[Nijyo]

 

I gotta agree, As a guitarist your tone is in your hands, not the name plate on the amp. Give Dave mustaine and Kerry king the exact same rig and they will each sound completely different. You really should be able to sound like yourself on any rig. If not maybe it isn't time to be playing shows yet.

 

 

Someone post that youtube video of Satriani playing on the fender squire strat in the little solid state 15w. I can never find it when I need it.

[WakeTheDead]

Wake the Dead, I think we're all actually sympathetic to your plight. And most have us have been there. It is a bit scary to have gear ruled out. And the idea of having to use provided backline. Bluestrat makes the point that a lot of times the backline is very good. A lot of times it is. And of course a lot of times it isn't. But these are the same contraints everybody will be under. It's surprising what you can do if you're ready for it. Number one: make sure you can get your guitar tones with pedals. Don't depend on the amp providing your tone. Just do a little homework and get your pedals in order for worst case scenario. Regarding the doujble pedal issue... once again, all drummers are similarly restricted. So there's the fun. Here's your chance to show off to the other bands and shine under the restrictions. Just try to change your point of view on this and it really can be a boost to your band's ego. Go in and kick serious ass regardless of the conditions. Let the other bands whine. You guys be ready instead.

I agree with a lot of what you guys have said about it (I'm not really a metal-head, I'm a rocker so I won't be playing at this gig) ...however:

My main concern (had I been playing in this show) would be the following:

Like was mentioned before, with everyone playing through the same backline, the bands will not have enough individuality and will all pretty much sound the same (tone wise). This could be a good thing (for some) and it could be a boring parade of never-ending garbage.

With only 30 minutes to set-up your gear, play a set and get off the stage it really only gives you enough to get warmed up....not to mention that playing through someone else's gear for the first time on stage at a show sounds like it would be a real crap-shoot.

Yes you could get lucky and rip some cool songs and "wing it" so to speak, or it could just as easy go South and you could make yourself (and your band) look like ass with an infected boil oozing all over the place.

My hat's off to all of you with the balls to step up and do a 30 minute set at a Battle of The Bands type gig through an unknown backline/FOH setup.

I would much rather just show up with my own gear, do a quick set-up and rock out knowing that we are throwing "our sound" out into the atmosphere and 30 minutes is not worth the hassle (especially when you have to look for parking in Waikiki (good luck!)

I guess for some young guys with {censored}ty gear and little experience, this could be a God-send. I am thinking of the young guitarist/bassist/drummer with cheap rubbish for gear showing up and going ... "WOW! This is KILLER" we get to play through a real Ampeg, a real Fender combo and we get a real Yamaha PA to boot! This is the chance of a Lifetime!! We're going to sound awesome!

Where old guys like me might show up, take a look around and simply walk out in dismay... leaving a 30 minute slot open.

Sorry, I didn't mean to ramble on! (Led Zep rules)

[BJH]

Someone post that youtube video of Satriani playing on the fender squire strat in the little solid state 15w. I can never find it when I need it.

 

Here's a similar one:

 

 

[stevesherbert]

i don't think this gig sounds half bad, for the bands or the audience. if bands are allowed to bring their own gear, a 30 minute time slot quickly becomes a 15 minute time slot. imo, a guitarist should be able to get decent tones using pedals for exactly these situations where their favorite amp isn't available. they'll probably have 2 amps onstage: a marshall jcm 2000 or dsl (awful dirt sound but ok clean, so use pedals!) and something fender-y.

 

i like them being strict about getting on and offstage in a hurry. there's nothing i hate more than waiting for guitarists to tune up onstage, especially since we were just picking our asses backstage for the last hour!

[Nijyo]

 

Here's a similar one: Dave Grohl drumming on a kids drum set

 

 

Never seen that one before

 

Here's the Satch one

D9v5e1TTwts

[Austincowbell]

honestly, every musician in the world needs to see the dave grohl clip and the satch clip and enjoy them with a big glass of "STFU and play".

[marmorek]

As fast as he could, over and over again, during every song, with a snare hit on the 3rd and a hat on the f1st and 3rd? Then a "chorus" which revolves around gravity blasting the snare while riding the bell of the ride and rolling on the bass drum?

He could've with his single pedal if he'd wanted to, but he didn't. That's why he was so awesome.

[mildlysane]

He could've with his single pedal if he'd wanted to, but he didn't. That's why he was so awesome.

:thu:

[Sparkytfl]

What about the metal bands with keyboard players? It's not a guitar or snare so it's not getting in the door? Oh that's right, the other metal bands say we're not metal enough and we don't get to play shows like this anyway. But that's a different rant.

Last battle of bands we played with equipment provided, the amps were a jsx and a 2 or 3 recto. Which had no footswitch. The bass amp was some fender 112, drums were provided too, but nothing special and the kick drum was about the size of a floor tom. This stuff was provided by GC who you know put it back on the floor to sell as new. One band still took easily 25 minutes to set up even though most of the gear was provided.

[Nijyo]

 

What about the metal bands with keyboard players? It's not a guitar or snare so it's not getting in the door? Oh that's right, the other metal bands say we're not metal enough and we don't get to play shows like this anyway. But that's a different rant.

 

 

Don't feel bad. These days Sabbath would probably get called "stoner hard rock" or something.

[ForgetMeNacht]

What about the metal bands with keyboard players? It's not a guitar or snare so it's not getting in the door? Oh that's right, the other metal bands say we're not metal enough and we don't get to play shows like this anyway. But that's a different rant. Last battle of bands we played with equipment provided, the amps were a jsx and a 2 or 3 recto. Which had no footswitch. The bass amp was some fender 112, drums were provided too, but nothing special and the kick drum was about the size of a floor tom. This stuff was provided by GC who you know put it back on the floor to sell as new. One band still took easily 25 minutes to set up even though most of the gear was provided.

 

 

that's what I was thinking as well.

 

Milwaukee Metalfest had backlines but they did allow keys.

[6StringSling]

 

honestly, every musician in the world needs to see the dave grohl clip and the satch clip and enjoy them with a big glass of "STFU and play".

 

No {censored}.

 

A gig like the OP is bitching about would not be a big deal for me anyway since I use a PodXT Live - all my tone is on the floor and I can get the pretty much the same sound through a head, small amp or PA.

[Zon5string]

Metalfest going on here in Hawaii (Honolulu)..... What a joke! Drummers-allowed 1 foot pedal only, guitarists just bring your axe and pedals, 30 minutes to play including setup and breakdown time??? Using someone elses gear youv'e never even seen before??? You've got to be kidding right? WTF would want to participate in something like that? Here's a copy the rules for participating bands with a link to the website stating so. http://www.myspace.com/hawaiimetalfest About Hawaii Metalfest This profile is for the use of bands playing, or that want to play on the '09 Hawaii Metalfest. If you are not in a band, feel free to add yourself at www.underworldevents.com . BANDS THAT ARE PLAYING HAWAII METALFEST '09 - READ THIS GEAR - As always, a backline will be provided. Bring only your guitars and effects pedals. Drummers bring your snare and pedal. NO OTHER GEAR WILL BE ALLOWED IN THE CLUB.

 

 

Reading the "pedal rule", as it would apply to me, says "bring my pedal". I would do just that. My pedal happens to be "double". It's not "double pedals", it's "A double pedal". I suspect the wording is to indicate that there will only be one kick drum in the provided set.

[dogtownmax]

are they paying? my guess is no.

 

so if yer not gettin paid, make yer own scene! call it oh, i dunno oahutalica, or mauitalica, or blackauai, or something. throw it in your neighborhood, find a decent hall or bar or something.

 

look, screw these assholes who are ready to tell you what the rules are. you dont want to go to this {censored}fest as a band, and i suspect you wouldnt want to go as a member of the audience. i know i sure a {censored}e dont want to.

 

effing do it yourself. its easy, more fun, and your paycheck is the same.

 

either make big money, or have fun, but dont have a {censored}ttry time for free.

 

the _best_ shows i have been to have been hella diy. local bands throwing down some genuine music in a wide variety of genres. local blues: awesome. local punk: el bombe. local metal: grrr! fantastic. local coffee shop acoustic girl-folk: schweet!

 

you get the picture. eff that rule bound bullsh!ite. throw a decent event where there are fewer bands, and a better time.

[WakeTheDead]

You're right, I just can't believe they could actually find anyone willing to participate in their Communist Metalfeast!

[patman0322]

I agree with a lot of what you guys have said about it (I'm not really a metal-head, I'm a rocker so I won't be playing at this gig) ...however: My main concern (had I been playing in this show) would be the following: Like was mentioned before, with everyone playing through the same backline, the bands will not have enough individuality and will all pretty much sound the same (tone wise). This could be a good thing (for some) and it could be a boring parade of never-ending garbage. With only 30 minutes to set-up your gear, play a set and get off the stage it really only gives you enough to get warmed up....not to mention that playing through someone else's gear for the first time on stage at a show sounds like it would be a real crap-shoot. Yes you could get lucky and rip some cool songs and "wing it" so to speak, or it could just as easy go South and you could make yourself (and your band) look like ass with an infected boil oozing all over the place. My hat's off to all of you with the balls to step up and do a 30 minute set at a Battle of The Bands type gig through an unknown backline/FOH setup. I would much rather just show up with my own gear, do a quick set-up and rock out knowing that we are throwing "our sound" out into the atmosphere and 30 minutes is not worth the hassle (especially when you have to look for parking in Waikiki (good luck!) I guess for some young guys with {censored}ty gear and little experience, this could be a God-send. I am thinking of the young guitarist/bassist/drummer with cheap rubbish for gear showing up and going ... "WOW! This is KILLER" we get to play through a real Ampeg, a real Fender combo and we get a real Yamaha PA to boot! This is the chance of a Lifetime!! We're going to sound awesome! Where old guys like me might show up, take a look around and simply walk out in dismay... leaving a 30 minute slot open. Sorry, I didn't mean to ramble on! (Led Zep rules)

I wouldn't worry about everyone sounding the same just because they're playing through the same gear - there's way to much room for individuality for an amp to squash it all - different guitars, pickup selections, effects, playing style and, most importantly, technique as evidenced by the Dave Grohl and Joe Satriani videos. Give Grohl a halfway decent set of cymbals and he could lay down a record on that toy kit - he could probably make a set of pots & pans and some empty oatmeal cartons sound good too. If your technique stinks, no amp will save you

Weird that they won't let them touch any of the knobs other than the gain but I suppose they're afraid those metalheads will crank the volume all the way up and do evil things to the tone controls and they'll end up with a guitar tone that they can't mix. I think they're underestimating peoples' ability to develop bad tone independent of the amp

I too would read that to mean that you can bring a double pedal, just that there's only one kick drum. I mean, how can you have metal without double kicks?

One of the hard things you have to learn how to do is to separate what you're playing from what you think you should be hearing. It's easy to play when you're playing your own rig that you've carefully constructed to fit your idea of tone and you're comfortable playing through it and it sounds and feels awesome when you play and the notes jump off of it surrounded by halos of light and a chorus of angels singing but that experience only exists for you, no one else experiences that. No one more than a few feet away from your rig experiences even a little bit of it - they just hear another guitar (or bass, or whatever).

I'd much rather play through my bass rig than through anything provided at one of these kinds of gigs, no matter how nice the rig is supposed to be - not because I think my rig is the greatest in the world but because I know it's competent and I'm comfortable with it and know how to get the sound I want for myself out of it quickly with a minimum of fuss. But, I also know I can usually get a decent tone out of just about any bass amp and speaker cabinet as long they've got enough power and speaker area to do the job (except my nemesis, the aluminum coned Hartke cab ) Either way, I'm confident I can give a soundman a direct output that he can plug into his board and not have to do much to it to make it sound good out front no matter how bad what I'm hearing sounds.

What you have to learn how to do is play just like you do when everything is perfect even when what you think you are hearing sounds like crap and trust that it sounds OK to the audience. It may sound like crap to them too but there's not anything you can do about that so you can't worry about it while you're playing - just assume it sounds good out there and let it rock.

You can control your technique, your instrument and your effects chain so make sure those are all up to par so you know that you're delivering a good signal to whatever's on the other end.

Don't let backline restrictions scare you off from playing these kinds of gigs - they can be a pain in the ass to pull off for a number of reasons but they can be a lot of fun too. The audience wouldn't recognize a difference in your sound between your own gear and provided gear if it bit them but they will notice if you get up there and rock for 30 minutes. Don't worry so much about gear and concentrate on kicking ass.