agency story

[jeff42]

here is a story that a guy told me a few weeks ago. About 5 or 6 years ago he was in one of the most popular bands in my hometown area. An area that the PA entertainment agencies rarely look at to pick up bands. Well his band go a shot with a decent agency, did the showcase, crowd loved them, he was sure the agency would rep them... but they passed. No details just a "sorry, not interested."

 

A few weeks later word got back to him from a trusted source the reasons the agency passed on the band... Does it suprise anyone that it had NOTHING to do with music?

 

* the bassist played his bass like a machine gun (think of what Steve Harris of Iron Maiden does)

 

* The guitar player was not animated enough when he sang and played guitar.

 

* The keyboard player is blind.

 

The last one was, from what he was told the MAJOR reason the agency said no.

 

Just thought I would share this story...

 

(just reinforces my DIY attitude with my band.)

[kmart]

I don't see this as such a big deal honestly; sounds like the agency felt they couldn't sell that particular product.

 

People judge based on looks first in many/most cases, and it could be as simple a case as this particular agency only repped bands that they could book on first glance/listen, rather than ones they could make a case about and eventually get gigs for.

 

That's how it goes.

[THX1138]

 

I don't see this as such a big deal honestly; sounds like the agency felt they couldn't sell that particular product. People judge based on looks first in many/most cases, and it could be as simple a case as this particular agency only repped bands that they could book on first glance/listen, rather than ones they could make a case about and eventually get gigs for. That's how it goes.

 

 

Yep. Agencies aren't selling your musical ability, they're selling entertainment.

[TIMKEYS]

Oh no a blind keyboard player ,,,, here i thought all the good ones were either blind or gay.

[jeff42]

Yes it is how it goes and no its not a big deal... I mean how much of what we talk about here is?

 

I just wanted to share a story that's all... I don't feel like working today.

 

This band's music and set list was not the problem. A blind band member was. This band was a band that really had their {censored} together as far as I remember. It used to really hurt our attendence when they were playing near us... but still an agency wouldn't rep em and not because they suck.

[jeff42]

 

Oh no a blind keyboard player ,,,, here i thought all the good ones were either blind or gay.

 

 

Let me just say this guy is really good too. and a good vocalist on top of that.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Let me just say this guy is really good too. and a good vocalist on top of that.

 

 

Agents are just sales people,,,, sales people can be pretty shallow and short sighted. Just because they are in sales doesnt mean they are really good at it. A good agent could have made money on that band, because it was a good band. The blind guy made then unique. Taking percieved negatives and turning them into positives is what a good sales person does.

[rangefinder]

 

Let me just say this guy is really good too. and a good vocalist on top of that.

 

 

Huh... I'm not sure what to say about all this... but for the sake of argument, let's substitute "schlub", "dork", "porker" or some such similar word for "blind"... even THAT might very well be enough to keep a band out of the top tier... and I'd rather be any of those other things than blind... and as an audience member, I want to be taken away from the real world, not reminded about it by somebody who's infirm in some way... a quality I don't necessarily like about myself, but that's human nature, I'm afraid.

 

So I'm not sure what the message/moral is, except that if MY band was in that situation, I'd make DAMN sure to minimize any effect it might have on the crowd, whatever the "disability" happened to be, or even turn it around somehow as timkeys said.

[kmart]

 

Agents are just sales people,,,, sales people can be pretty shallow and short sighted. Just because they are in sales doesnt mean they are really good at it. A good agent could have made money on that band, because it was a good band. The blind guy made then unique. Taking percieved negatives and turning them into positives is what a good sales person does.

 

 

Nah, taking perceived negatives and turning them into positives is what a sales person WHO WANTS TO do that extra work does.

 

It's entirely possible that the business model of that particular agency is to ONLY take on bands that are an easy sell and place them in venues that are looking for a specific/particular product. If this agency has a relationship with a number of rooms who expect ONLY bands that fit a particular image, then it could be as simple as a GOOD sales person (in this situation) recognizing it was a band that wouldn't work.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Nah, taking perceived negatives and turning them into positives is what a sales person WHO WANTS TO do that extra work does. It's entirely possible that the business model of that particular agency is to ONLY take on bands that are an easy sell and place them in venues that are looking for a specific/particular product. If this agency has a relationship with a number of rooms who expect ONLY bands that fit a particular image, then it could be as simple as a GOOD sales person (in this situation) recognizing it was a band that wouldn't work.

 

 

Dont confuse an order taker with a saleman. An order taker will cost you lots of money if you ever hook your wagon to one. A good saleman can take a negative and spin it into a positive in a matter of seconds on the fly in a conversation. Its not work , its skill.

[wheresgrant3]

Unfortunately for agency it is all about presentation and not really about the whole package. I think if bands really understood that they would be less disappointed. By the same token that's the pressure that some of the higher capacity clubs put on the agent. That agent is competeing with other agents. I tend to find that sometimes those gigs aren't as fun to play anyway just because you feel under a microscope all night. I think one of the best moves we ever made was hiring our own manager and only supplimenting with agency gigs. We make more money, own the relationship with the club owner and never have anyone making a comment about our band or presentation. We are never at the mercy of an agent or club owner. It's a terrific feeling.

 

 

I have a friend in another band that recently broke away from an 'exclusive' agency deal in the NY/CT/NJ area. They started out as an agency act and felt they were being locked out of some rooms in favor of other bands. So they started self booking themselves with the agents blessing. All went well with the local bookings until they booked a larger room that the agent had no help or hand in. He said he wanted his commission even though he hadn't booked a band in there in over 5 years. They ended up leaving the agency entirely... and he's happier for it. It's been hard working to get their name out there but every place they play they make an impression. It's hard work, but the feeling is great when you break open a room on your own, without an agent 'owning that business'.

[Christhee68]

A blind keyboard player will never make it as a musician. Just ask Ronnie Milsap, Ray Charles, and Stevie Wonder.

[kmart]

 

Dont confuse an order taker with a saleman. An order taker will cost you lots of money if you ever hook your wagon to one. A good saleman can take a negative and spin it into a positive in a matter of seconds on the fly in a conversation. Its not work , its skill.

 

I'm not confusing anything.

 

But I'm also not assuming anything either, which you seem to be doing; nobody in this thread ultimately knows why the agent/agency decided to pass on the band.

I'm just not as willing to paint the agent or agency as inept, and am more willing to recognize how most agents and agencies work in the real world it seems than many in this thread are.

[TIMKEYS]

 

I'm not confusing anything. But I'm also not assuming anything either, which you seem to be doing; nobody in this thread ultimately knows why the agent/agency decided to pass on the band. I'm just not as willing to paint the agent or agency as inept, and am more willing to recognize how most agents and agencies work in the real world it seems than many in this thread are.

 

 

Whatever ,,, If its a great band ,, passing on it seems kinda dumb on the agents part. Like you say , they have their reasons,, they dont have to be valid. As for the negative thing,, fending off perceived negatives is what a sales person does for a living ,,, if you dont you are just an order taker. A band doesnt need of of those as an agent.

[Rezrover]

Maybe they saw "handicapped" more than blind and started to consider what's involved with that more than actually talking to the guy.

[kmart]

 

Whatever ,,, If its a great band ,, passing on it seems kinda dumb on the agents part.

 

Again, that's an assumption that they are 'great' based on the needs of that agent's clients...

 

...when it's entirely possible the agent works with venues who want bands that fit "Type A" only, and this band was "Type B"; so it doesn't matter if they are the best "Type B" band in the galaxy, and possibly doesn't matter if they are better than every single "Type A" band as well: what they aren't is a "Type A" band.

 

IMO, "dumb" would be trying to figure out how to fit a square peg into a round hole.

[jeff42]

We are not an agency band and I doubt we ever will be. We don't have the look but that's OK. Yes it keeps us out of certain rooms but we have been gaining bigger and bigger crowds since the new year. People seem to be digging what we are doing.

 

This story and others like it just gets me to push this little DIY band I have more and more. Maybe the day when this agency comes calling I can say... no thanks. Or like Grant's band does it, On their own terms.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Again, that's an assumption that they are 'great' based on the needs of that agent's clients... ...when it's entirely possible the agent works with venues who want bands that fit "Type A" only, and this band was "Type B"; so it doesn't matter if they are the best "Type B" band in the galaxy, and possibly doesn't matter if they are better than every single "Type A" band as well: what they aren't is a "Type A" band. IMO, "dumb" would be trying to figure out how to fit a square peg into a round hole.

 

 

Well maybe from the agents point of few ,,if you have a guy booking you ,,, the object is to get the peg in the hole and make it work out well. Dont know the situation , but If sales people only put round pegs in round holes ,, they would never be a top producer.

[Hegmatronicon]

 

Well maybe from the agents point of few ,,if you have a guy booking you ,,, the object is to get the peg in the hole and make it work out well. Dont know the situation , but If sales people only put round pegs in round holes ,, they would never be a top producer.

 

 

Not sure how it works out there - but here - It's the agents responsibility to put bands in the rooms that they would do well in. You wouldn't book a country band in a TOP40 type nightclub. Yes - maybe the salesmen could make it happen - but the gig wouldnt work.

It's the agents responsibility to know his bands and his rooms well enough to match them up to the right ones.

I'm not interested in our agent getting us gigs JUST because he manages to talk the room into having us - no matter what room it happens to be. Nobody benefits from the wrong band in the wrong room. Not the room/crowd/bar, not the agent and not the band.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Not sure how it works out there - but here - It's the agents responsibility to put bands in the rooms that they would do well in. You wouldn't book a country band in a TOP40 type nightclub. Yes - maybe the salesmen could make it happen - but the gig wouldnt work. It's the agents responsibility to know his bands and his rooms well enough to match them up to the right ones. I'm not interested in our agent getting us gigs JUST because he manages to talk the room into having us - no matter what room it happens to be. Nobody benefits from the wrong band in the wrong room. Not the room/crowd/bar, not the agent and not the band.

 

 

 

thats not what i am talking about ,,,, selling a blind keyboard player is what he needs to do. Not book a metal act into a country bar. maybe this deal is hitting a little close to home for me,,,, pretty well blind in one eye ,, cataract surgery comming up the 5th of april on my only eye that has decent vision potential. I am not blind but I know what vision issues are about.... its been a pretty rough few months when my daytime bright light vision went to 20 /200 due to supcapsular cataracts. Thank god I could see ok at night ,, and have not missed any gigs.

[wheresgrant3]

We are not an agency band and I doubt we ever will be. We don't have the look but that's OK. Yes it keeps us out of certain rooms but we have been gaining bigger and bigger crowds since the new year. People seem to be digging what we are doing. This story and others like it just gets me to push this little DIY band I have more and more. Maybe the day when this agency comes calling I can say... no thanks. Or like Grant's band does it, On their own terms.

 

It's a necessary evil... and a Catch22. Without an agent we wouldn't have gotten into some A-list venues in larger markets. We need those A-list bookings to have clout and put pressure on the local rooms that would have stonewalled and dragged their feet on bookings and pay. Because we are not based in the market the agent books in, we don't get the 'plumb' gigs and it's hard to build a following without playing often. We're popular at home, and are frequently booked so that puts some pressure on the agent to only call us or offer rooms at $X-pay or more. So we using both markets in a sense to pressure each other. It's a balancing act... but it adds up to 6-7 local gigs and 1-2 agent gigs per month. After gas, tolls, hotel and sometimes a 1099 for taxes, even when we exceed the same pay of a local gig we still net out a little more than half.

 

Kmart does have it right especially with the club scene in the northeast. Agent needs to book in type A bands to type A rooms. Failure is not an option. Agent clubs vary in capacity from 400-1500 and if the agent books the wrong band, well {censored} hits the fan. That being said, most every agent I've come across takes the easy way out, and books the easiest band for each situation. It's why the nightclub scene is so cookie cutter. It's also why the bands that are committed to that model, live and die by the agent bookings. The bands rarely last very long.. most burn out, reform, regroup after a few summer seasons. If I had an opportunity to book the band that Jeff described I certainly would. It might not have been the prettiest room but given the opportunity to plug a good band somewhere looking for solid entertainment I would have found a way to make it work.

[wades_keys]

Yep. Agencies aren't selling your musical ability, they're selling entertainment.

Maybe they should book clowns. They're a lot cheaper and the bang-for-buck ratio far exceeds that of any band.

 

Clowns.

 

That's the ticket.

[Austincowbell]

 

Dont confuse an order taker with a saleman. An order taker will cost you lots of money if you ever hook your wagon to one. A good saleman can take a negative and spin it into a positive in a matter of seconds on the fly in a conversation. Its not work , its skill.

 

 

I've said this a million times when conducting sales training, btw... We're in an era where people are accustomed to buying off of a pulldown menu on a website and mediocre sales people function in the same manner. PERSONALLY, I think it would have been inspirational to see a blind guy killing it on the guys and a salesman thinking outside the box would have as well.

 

-Having said all of that, the information sounds a little suspect to me and I only say that because secondhand information is always sketchy.

[jeff42]

Having said all of that, the information sounds a little suspect to me and I only say that because secondhand information is always sketchy.

 

yes 2nd hand is 2nd hand so you may be right. They may just have not been that agents "cup of tea" who knows? I have heard many agency stories including this one from a female vocalist's mother.

 

The agency wants to drop my daughter's band because she still has not shed all her pregnancy pounds yet. This girl is pretty hot and not fat at all... not a stick but not fat. Great singer too.

The agency also wants the singer's husband (2nd guitar/keyboards) to play less guitar and just play keyboards back by the drummer because he is "older looking" so he shouldn't be up front.

 

-again 2nd hand info and coming from a singer's mother it may be stretching the truth a bit... but still interesting for discussion. I guess when this band was picked up (or created) a few years ago they didn't figure on the people getting older.

[kmart]

 

...selling a blind keyboard player is what he needs to do ...

 

 

Still don't see a shread of logic/sound reasoning that gets you to this very specific conclusion.

 

I'm willing to bet a large sum of money that the agent's line of thinking was along the lines of "I need to put food on the table and pay the mortgage" and his actions were geared towards achieving those goals in the best way (for him) possible. I doubt he felt any particular need related to the band with the blind keyboard player in any way, shape or form.

 

Agencies/agents are NOT going to operate with the best interests of the musicians/bands they interact with (or those they don't) at the top of their priority list. They are going to operate with THEIR OWN best interests at the top of that list.