venue staff and you

[jeff42]

You should be tipping me for having to see you refer to soda as "pop".

 

[Zeromus-X]

 

As far as tipping. I haven't met a bartender yet that I felt deserved a tip where we play. We get a tab at exactly 1 venue that we play. So I tip them well. The others, my usual... if there's change you get that, if not then a buck (even when I buy a round for the band). When I have to pay $6 for a Sam Adams in Providence, tips aren't going to be plentiful. :-p

 

 

There's so much wrong with this entire paragraph that I don't even know where to start.

 

I guess I'll start with -- do you seriously feel that the price of the beer negates a tip? Do you think the bartender is getting any part of that $6 for that beer?

[BATCAT]

I don't exactly understand the premise of this thread.

 

I try to be as courteous to all venue and bar staff (unless they being total jerks or something, which is rare) as possible, and I tip at least a dollar on every beverage I get, free or not, alcoholic or not.

[Kramerguy]

I think the OP's point was about getting to know people then *poof* they are gone from your life or something. Such is the way the wheel turns.

 

We kind of hijacked it into how being overly or underly decent to your barstaff can affect your band.

 

Kinda a cool topic IMO

[TIMKEYS]

I think the relationship you want to avoid is the one where you tip good exchange for free drinks under the table from bartenders. You have to remember its not that you are so special,, its the bartender stealing from the venue.

[Zeromus-X]

 

I think the OP's point was about getting to know people then *poof* they are gone from your life or something. Such is the way the wheel turns. We kind of hijacked it into how being overly or underly decent to your barstaff can affect your band. Kinda a cool topic IMO

 

 

In the age of social networking, I don't understand how this is even an issue. We encourage anyone who works at any venue we play to add us to their Facebook page, and most do, since it helps get people out to the shows (and therefore makes them more money). In return, when one leaves and goes to a different bar, for example, we now have an "in" because we can include him/her in our posts and people will see our name. As well, it makes it easy to keep in contact with anyone who is genuinely friendly to us.

[J.Paul]

Yeah pretty much

just being emotional

kind of a gay post really.....

It was also directed at how YOU personally interact (not your band or the dynamic of your entire band's deminure but YOU).

 

bnelly428 had a perspective~ hit the high points and bail, check in with the people that are important and everyone else doesn't matter (my paraphrase not his)....Get the business done....should fit right into Nashville.

 

there are all kinds of subtleties to the post (not just tipping)

~I try and check in at every station (some venues have 15 plus servers, some have 2 or 3 floors) and not just the main bar or coffee station, and see if everyone has made money or not....if not just by hanging out at their station on breaks can encourage a "herd" into their area.

~is one of the managers a particular dick to his servers (pun not intended)? He's usually not gonna tell you, but the serves might if they get to know you. If given a choice between doing business w/ someone w/ an overt character flaw and someone else we would probably work w/ someone else.

~I find out what the staff is listening to.....servers have tuned me onto Gilbert Brantley and Zak Brown years before those two broke.

~staff knows other bands. Are you gonna play with the people you're with until you die?

~the staff are your partners for the night featuring TADA! Alcohol with special guest appearance by yourband.

 

and on and on and on

it's more than about just "tipping so you can get your drink quicker on break"

come on. you guys know this stuff..... don't you

[J.Paul]

 

In the age of social networking, I don't understand how this is even an issue. We encourage anyone who works at any venue we play to add us to their Facebook page, and most do, since it helps get people out to the shows (and therefore makes them more money). In return, when one leaves and goes to a different bar, for example, we now have an "in" because we can include him/her in our posts and people will see our name. As well, it makes it easy to keep in contact with anyone who is genuinely friendly to us.

 

 

see

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2809393-technology-the-internet-music-industry-relationships

[J.Paul]

 

What is the story here? Are they switching to DJ's?

 

Not really...

They already have a DJ (the soundman), so now there are just no bands.

80% of the staff is gone now and it's running on a skeleton crew.

 

Some of it is the economy and some of it is the influx of "urban" clubs and lifestyle in the area.The club is "too white and too country" to compete and would have to do too much expensive renovation to thrive.We only play there twice a year (so no biggie) but it's been open for about 40 years so a bit of history is about to be lost I think...

[fishmanrod]

Hmmmmm. Maintaining relationships with people is effort. The amount of effort put in, for me, depends on what I get out of it, and by that I mean what emotional connection is made. That connection developes very natually and organically. Some people you meet you get close to, others you don't. Why would you spend the same amount of effort on someone who just doesn't fit with you (and everyone knows what I mean, lots of nice people out there that you just don't gel with) vs someone who does?

 

I would say that you can characterize people into four groups

Those you don't know

Aquaintances

Friends

Close Friends and Family.

 

Sometimes there is overlap, I have family that I would characterize as aqauintances, I see them so rarely and neither makes much of an attempt to keep the contact up.

 

I try to treat the first two the same, as far as being polite and a caring human being. I will hold the door or pick up something dropped for a complete stranger. I will not hug them. I think it is the right thing to do to treat all people with respect until they no longer deserve such treatment. That is self serving (you don't make enemies for stupid reasons) and just the right thing to do. I beleive in the intrinsic value of all people. Even the dick heads are loved by someone!

 

With aquantances, I will greet them by name if I see them and ask how they are. This would include any staff at places I play. They are not my friends, they are business aquaintances. I will reach out to them in an appropriate business-like way (and we all know what that is) if it is worth while keeping in touch for business purposes, and I am appropriately polite and approachable when we meet. I do not make them part of my personal social network. I network with them as it makes sense for business. Same with people in my full time job. I work closely with people who only know me, and of me, through work. That is the extent of the connection and we are both happy with that.

 

With Friends, I spend much more time and effort. Sometimes aquaintances become friends. For instance, I have former band mates that I never see, and have lost touch with, and others that I care about and maintain a friendship even though we have not worked together in 10 years.

 

Close Friends and Family get the most effort. These are people I love. What's the old saying, you will help a friend move, you will help a true friend move a body? LOL.

 

So I think worrying about bringing every person you meet, especially for business purposes, into your inner circle, is not a good idea. It dilutes the time/energy you have for your true friends and family, and in most cases people don't expect it. Polite and friendly is more than enough.

 

As for tipping, don't get me started.

 

If you are a bar tender, and you are on break sitting on the customer side of the bar, and you ask the other bar tender to grab you coke (ok, it's Alabama, alright?) do you tip him? I say HELL NO.

 

So why is it that as a musician you are working the venue and you are 'staff' for that night, and yet the expectation by nearly everyone (wait staff, patrons, other musicians) is that you tip the people who bring you drinks, or even those that POUR your drink when you come fetch it from the bar?????

 

I know wait staff don't make big dough. Neither do most musicians. And I have often heard the argument that it should not matter how much the beer is, or that you order soda pop (that will tick off at least two people, LOL), you should tip well. So how come you tip differently if you order a $6 hamburger vs a $45 steak dinner? Which standard are we going by????

 

Tipping is one of those social 'norms' that differs place to place. You have to figure out the local custom, and that can even be venue specific. I have never been a generous tipper (10 to 15%, more if they do a spectacular job), but I do understand the reality of it. Sometimes I go to see bands. I usually have two beers in a night. I order the 1st beer, give the server twice what the beer is worth and tell them "keep the change, I'll probably only have one other drink, later", and they don't push to sell me more, but as soon as I stick my finger up they are there. Works for them, works for me.

 

My 0.02 $ worth. Cheers!

[Zeromus-X]

 

I know wait staff don't make big dough. Neither do most musicians. And I have often heard the argument that it should not matter how much the beer is, or that you order soda pop (that will tick off at least two people, LOL), you should tip well. So how come you tip differently if you order a $6 hamburger vs a $45 steak dinner?

 

 

First, you don't tip differently if you order a $6 hamburger vs a $45 steak dinner. You tip a percentage of the meal, and that percentage shouldn't change based on how expensive the meal was. When you're drinking soda and water for free, there's no percentage that's applicable, so you can't really use that, unless you're looking for an excuse to stiff them. That's where the $1-per-drink generally comes into play. You end up tipping more for a nicer meal because, in general, establishments which cost more offer better service -- fewer tables per waitstaff, longer meals, better overall quality of service, multiple waitstaff for various parts of the meal, etc.

 

Second, you are not an employee of the bar. You are an outside contractor hired to perform work there. If you are really considering yourself an employee of the bar, I suspect you'll be filling out paperwork before you play, withholding your first paycheck, getting paid within three or four weeks, filing termination paperwork when you're done working there, etc. Not to mention the tip goes to the waitress, not the establishment, and you're most definitely not working for the waitress. Which gets me to:

 

Third, tipping the wait staff as a band member comes under the category of courtesy. While you may feel that you are entitled to free service just for playing music that night, the time they spend with you is time they aren't able to spend with another paying (and tipping) customer. Every time a waitress brings me a glass of water, that's one less glass on her tray that could have gone to someone who would have tipped her. Think about it -- if you don't tip at all, every time she brings you a drink, she is LOSING money that she'd have been getting otherwise. Therefore, I feel that I should be doing the same thing any other customer of hers is doing, and reimbursing her for her service.

 

If you have to go up to the bar to get your water between breaks and have to stand and wait ten minutes for it to happen, by all means, vote with you wallet. If a waitress is bringing you pitchers or glasses of the water to the stage, allowing you to do your job easier while adding more work to hers, not tipping her makes you a jackass.

 

IMO.

[BATCAT]

I have never been a generous tipper (10 to 15%, more if they do a spectacular job),

 

You will seriously go out to dinner, get good (or hell, average) service, and tip 10%?

[J.Paul]

 

I will reach out to them in an appropriate business-like way (and we all know what that is) if it is worth while keeping in touch for business purposes, and I am appropriately polite and approachable when we meet. I do not make them part of my personal social network. I network with them as it makes sense for business. Same with people in my full time job. I work closely with people who only know me, and of me, through work. That is the extent of the connection and we are both happy with that.................. So I think worrying about bringing every person you meet, especially for business purposes, into your inner circle, is not a good idea.

 

So at work it's distant and polite, but when it's showtime it's "here's a flyer, bring a van full of people, see you Saturday?"

 

....or perhaps no one promotes their shows here, not sure.

 

lines blur

 

We all know the uniform Human Resource golden rule is not to "fraternize"~ however for years and years the stats show that people in America meet their spouses at work.

 

lines blur

 

same goes for staff and management at live venues, lines blur

which is why I started the thread saying that I was starting to distance myself,

not enough kinetic balance in the exchange,

[BlueStrat]

You will seriously go out to dinner, get good (or hell, average) service, and tip 10%?

 

I generally tip at least 20%, sometimes 25 if the service is really great, 15 if it sucks. I never tip based on the quality of the food or beverage, only on service rendered by the server. If I have an issue with the food.beverage, I take it up with the management. It's not the server's fault.

[Rich4Once]

I am nice to the staff at clubs we play at, but we're not what I would call friends. I try to keep it professional...if they like us and tell me so, I say "Thank you". If an extended conversation is had, we may chat about our set list, where else we play, etc. It's mainly small talk, as I'm there to work and so are they.

 

I don't expect them to wait on me, and I don't leave a mess for them to clean up. I go to the bar before the first set, get a pitcher of ice water and a pint glass, and I don't bother them again until I need it refilled. I take it to the bar and wait in line like anyone else, and at the end of the night I return the empty pitcher and glass to the bar. I also announce over the PA "Make sure you tip your bartenders and waitresses, they're working hard for you, so show 'em you love 'em."

[urca]

 

Isn't that one of those NorthEast vs West things? I grew up in Pennsylvania.

 

 

Nope, just a 1950's thing vs. a 2011 thing.

[rodclement]

Working in hospitality has taught me to be friendly but never friends with the service staff, they always move around a lot. Either they are part timers working through school, or full timers with little ambition and a lot of issues!

Having said that, service industry has provided me with an infinite amount of girlfriends and one ex wife :-) !

 

Please tip your staff, unless they suck!

 

Rod

[pickinatit]

Working in hospitality has taught me to be friendly but never friends with the service staff, they always move around a lot. Either they are part timers working through school, or full timers with little ambition and a lot of issues! Having said that, service industry has provided me with an infinite amount of girlfriends and one ex wife :-) ! Please tip your staff, unless they suck! Rod

 

There's a great word play joke in there somewhere, but I'll leave that for somebody else!!

[rodclement]

:-) :-)

 

Rod

[jamieb]

I've worked places where the staff was so unfriendly and without personality, I honestly can't remember anything about them, and don't want to.

On the other hand, there are places, that were the opposite. One establishment in our area, now closed for a couple of years, had such a good staff, from the owner down, that I still stay in touch with them. Owners are Facebook friends, and one bartender and two waitresses I consider good friends, and still talk with them on a semi-regular basis.

 

Guess my point is; I'll risk dealing with the bad side (or even a sad side, in the event of a less-than-pleasant parting of ways) to have the opportunity to make long-term friends in the process.

 

jamieb

+++++