Man this is hard. Solutions?

[komodo117]

Been cycling through musicians, trying to find people that fit what I want to do since October. Picked up a bassist who is an okay dude, but lately he kind of irks me with the style he consistently wants to jam in (short, speedy measures with no mojo). We had a fantastic drummer but had to let him go a few weeks ago due to his personal issues getting in the way of things and him not showing up for almost 2 months. So we got a new drummer, and she's okayish, but things are starting to sound really generic and overall I'm just not happy with where the creative input is going. I feel like I'm having to write all of the groovier bass lines and beats to get stuff to flow good anyways, and I can never just relax and jam. It feels very 2 dimensional all of the sudden and I want out of it. I want to get back to actually feeling the music I'm making instead of forcing myself to go through the motions.

 

The practice space is in my name, but the bassist has almost as much money invested into it as I do (as far as rent goes at least). Drummer hasn't really contributed much (save for posters n {censored}, lol) as she's only been around for a couple of weeks, so I don't feel too bad about that. But how do I go about approaching this situation? I'm trying not to be uncool or a dick about things, I just want to make some music with some like-minded, open individuals that don't want to just play punk and hipster-rock. No point in sticking around if it's not what you want to do, right?

 

Ideally I'd love to get my old drummer back once his life clears up a little, and locate another bassist with a bit more flair towards the funky, progressive, experimental route I want to push towards. I just don't know how to approach this situation and kick everyone out without looking like the badguy. I really want to keep the place I'm in since it's in a great part of the city with lots of other really cool dudes on the same floor. But once again, how the hell do you just tell your current group of guys to hit the street because you want to find someone better? Is that being a bit pretentious?

 

Any help or suggestions from anyone that's been in a similar position? I'm still kinda young and new to this whole "holding down a band" thing, but I'm at a nice little lull in my life where I have no need to work, and seriously just want to make music all day, every day, and I don't want to waste any time of it.

 

Thanks guys. All advice would be much appreciated.

[totheengravers]

Man, I can certainly empathize with this. I pretty much gave up on my most recent band since it had been through a revolving door of musicians since its inception. My 1st lead guitarist had to quit to straighten things out with his life, then the bassist didn't want to commit and the drummers wife got preggers. Everyone dropped on literally the same day. I rounded up a new lineup and then last summer the newer drummer had to move away. The band went on indefinite hiatus, but the newer 2nd guitarist and bassist had been far too busy with their jobs and personal lives and other bands to commit to getting the group back together. Fast forward and I'm starting a new group with the 2nd guitarist and a new bassist, but we haven't played in 2 months and there's been no effort made on their part to find the time. My old guitarist who first left my old band is back in the business, this time on drums and plans on never having kids or moving anytime soon, so score on that. My old bassist has some free time and we're hopefully going to have a jam session this weekend. I'm pretty stoked since it's been 9 months since I've played with a complete band.

 

Anyway, I know there's no advice there, but in the past with my old band I had a good friend of mine playing bass. He wasn't very good and ultimately he had to be let go, more because my old guitarist and drummer were underwhelmed with his skill level and they encouraged me to pick up the bass again and do the bass/vox thing and give him the axe. I didn't want to let him go, but looking back, it was better that I did since the band wouldn't have become nearly as good as it was before it crashed & burned. My buddy, who I'm still good friends with today and hang out with frequently, was crushed that I gave him the boot, which was the toughest part since he said he could try to get better etc, but sometimes it's not in their blood or people just aren't meant to play music. There is a weird and fine line. I always try to find naturally gifted and skilled people who are also down to earth and not jackasses like some guitarists and drummers I wasted years playing in bands with.

[komodo117]

 

There is a weird and fine line. I always try to find naturally gifted and skilled people who are also down to earth and not jackasses like some guitarists and drummers I wasted years playing in bands with.

 

 

I know exactly what you mean man. I've been in and out of stuff since I was 16, mainly singing. I've never been "excellent" myself, but I have the mind for music, and I've gotten much much better over the past 3 years or so, jamming and learning from people all over that are much better than me. I think any serious musician has that craving towards excellence and I don't feel any different. I mean hell, having never touched a bass before, I can play better than my current bassist, and that says something. I want people I can learn from and grow with, otherwise it's just not a satisfying experience.

 

I'm in the same position on the bassist as you are with your friend too. He's a cool dude and we've gotten to be good friends, and he's also good friends with my roommate, so it's hard to make the decision to give him the boot but his problems outweigh his benefits. He's quite obstinate sometimes, won't allow much creative input, REFUSES to play slow sometimes (which, you're a {censored}ing bassist, you need to play slow sometimes), and overall just cock-blocks the creative process.

 

We had another guitarist as well but he's kind of not showed up for multiple months, and his amp is still there. He's more focused on his dubstep stuff, which is cool because he's good at it and it's what he wants to do, he just shouldn't have made the commitment to us. Luckily he's coming by to get his amp tonight so that's one less thing to worry about.

 

Just some hard decisions that need to be made, and made in a way that everyone doesn't get pissed off. I'm trying to be as nice of a guy as possible about this because I really don't like disappointing people, it's just how I am. I just don't see things going where I really want them to be heading, and I in no way want to waste the time I have to be fully dedicated on something not worth being dedicated to.

[GmanJeff]

It might be that you need to spend more time up front in the selection process, making very clear what you're looking for, and being critical in evaluating the skills, ambitions, and availability of the people you audition. If those things aren't well defined from the outset, it's not going to be too surprising when the new person's approach turns out over time to not be in sync with yours.

[StratGuy22]

Pics of the drummer.

 

 

[Kramerguy]

 

It might be that you need to spend more time up front in the selection process, making very clear what you're looking for, and being critical in evaluating the skills, ambitions, and availability of the people you audition. If those things aren't well defined from the outset, it's not going to be too surprising when the new person's approach turns out over time to not be in sync with yours.

 

 

Even when you do vet someone, people always hold back truths at auditions and interviews.

 

here's the typical breakdown:

 

 

Audition: They play everything well, but were given the songs well in advance, and were even allowed to cherry-pick the ones they were most comfortable with

 

1-Month mark: No personality flaws yet, but you notice they tend to do ______ on their instrument during or between songs, which is mildly annoying, but no big deal.

 

2-month mark: Some minor personality traits come out, you thought the guy was really even-keeled, but you discover he's been in and out of numerous bands, and tends to get dramatic when you bring up certain topics.

 

3-Month mark: Well he learned most of the material, but a lot of it he doesn't really know the arrangements at all, it's like he just learns the main riffs and hooks, and the bull{censored}s his way thru.. Clearly, he's not practicing as much as he claims or has infinite excuses about {censored} going wrong in life. Personality becoming more unpredictable, but now you are gigging out, and don't want to rock the boat.

 

4-month mark: You are getting annoyed, the personality flaws.. the drama, and he blew off a couple of rehearsals, he's still not up on the arrangements. Nothing new learned since before he came in, he's still screwing up bridges and outtro's. You WANT to replace him, but you have a lot of gigs over the next two months.. you are feeling frustrated and trapped. Thoughts of quitting the band run thru your head

 

5-month mark: So far, you've gotten into a couple of arguments with the new guy, he apparently doesn't really like the music the band plays, so now he wants the band to play all the stuff he knows... he blew off another rehearsal, and showed up late to the last gig, thus only having time to set himself up and not help anyone else. You get miffed and take $20 out of his take.. you know it will start a fight.. but you want it, need it....

 

6-month mark: Craigslist ad: Working band, looking for ___________

[Lee Knight]

 

...and kick everyone out without looking like the badguy .

 

 

What's wrong with looking like the bad guy? As long as you aren't... who cares if it looks that way to some? So what? Size up your situation and make a choice. It's what you gotta do.

[wardjames]

 

What's wrong with looking like the bad guy? As long as you aren't ... who cares if it looks that way to some? So what? Size up your situation and make a choice. It's what you gotta do.

 

 

I agree. It's a pain in the ass getting rid of people, especially nice people, but the reality is that if you feel the way you do, they probably feel something is going wrong as well.

 

I'd also add that a lot of this depends (fortunately or unfortunately) on money. Can you as a bandleader provide gigs that pay decent? Or are you trying to get everyone to rehearse weekly with no direction and no gigs on the horizon? If it's the latter, you're going to have a tough time.

[pickinatit]

A long time ago, I was asked to come "jam" with some guys . The front man /singer / lead guitar player was terrific. The drummer was the best drummer I've ever played with. I was no slouche on the bass back then. Now the problem. The keyboard player was horrible. He was also the "Front man's" Brother!!!

About two weeks in the front man asks me what do I think? (He'd never been in a gigging band so he didn't know where to set the bar). I told him that if he ever wanted to get out of the basement he had to find a better keyboard player.

To his credit, the guy s**t canned his own brother. Two months later we were playing at "The Horse You Came In On" in Fells Point in Baltimore. I guess it all depends on how bad you want to go somewhere with your music vs. being seen/known as a "nice guy".

[guitarguy19]

Pics of the drummer.

 

 

damn I was gonna say the same thing until I scrolled down and saw this...

[shredhead7]

 

Even when you do vet someone, people always hold back truths at auditions and interviews. here's the typical breakdown: Audition: They play everything well, but were given the songs well in advance, and were even allowed to cherry-pick the ones they were most comfortable with 1-Month mark: No personality flaws yet, but you notice they tend to do ______ on their instrument during or between songs, which is mildly annoying, but no big deal. 2-month mark: Some minor personality traits come out, you thought the guy was really even-keeled, but you discover he's been in and out of numerous bands, and tends to get dramatic when you bring up certain topics. 3-Month mark: Well he learned most of the material, but a lot of it he doesn't really know the arrangements at all, it's like he just learns the main riffs and hooks, and the bull{censored}s his way thru.. Clearly, he's not practicing as much as he claims or has infinite excuses about {censored} going wrong in life. Personality becoming more unpredictable, but now you are gigging out, and don't want to rock the boat. 4-month mark: You are getting annoyed, the personality flaws.. the drama, and he blew off a couple of rehearsals, he's still not up on the arrangements. Nothing new learned since before he came in, he's still screwing up bridges and outtro's. You WANT to replace him, but you have a lot of gigs over the next two months.. you are feeling frustrated and trapped. Thoughts of quitting the band run thru your head 5-month mark: So far, you've gotten into a couple of arguments with the new guy, he apparently doesn't really like the music the band plays, so now he wants the band to play all the stuff he knows... he blew off another rehearsal, and showed up late to the last gig, thus only having time to set himself up and not help anyone else. You get miffed and take $20 out of his take.. you know it will start a fight.. but you want it, need it.... 6-month mark: Craigslist ad: Working band, looking for ___________

 

 

This ^

I sat idle for two and a half years based solely on experiences like this. I tried out so many people, but I was not going to settle for any one less than professional that had ambition. It took forever to get going, but when it did it was worth it. Some people don't have that same patience. If you have to jam, then I would suggest trying to network and get your name out there as much as possible. After my last band ended, I had calls coming fast and furious about gig offers, which six years ago would have never happened.

[beatpoet]

When it came to putting across ideas/suggestions to others in bands, I definitely used to be a "don't rock the boat" type. After ten years of BS though and my last band splitting up, I've come to the conclusion that you really just have to put yourself first if you want to drive a band and define the music it plays. You might make some enemies OP, but if you go through enough players, I think you'll find the ones you're looking for. Just getting that far without getting a reputation as a harsh sacker-of-musicians is the hard part!

[metronome_jones]

 

I'm trying not to be uncool or a dick about things, I just want to make some music

 

Have a sit down w/ 'em & tell 'em where you're at. Just be straight up.

And I agree: when you vet new people, tell 'em straight up what you want.

 

Personally I think being a nice guy will only take you to a certain point, & then it may deliver nothing but a steel toe to the nuts!

 

Last year, after literally years of promises, a buddy of mine finally (so he thought) had the time to put together a band. Unfortunately, right away we were plagued w/ issues, namely I had a car accident that had me in a hand cast for a month, and the drummer was more focused on getting his college degree. Plus my bud actually didn't have the time to devote to the band & other issues.

 

Anyway, my bud found a keyboard player who'd never been in a band before & was kind of socially awkward when it came to the interaction you have to have when being in a band. For a singer my bud snagged the keyboardist's girlfriend. She had 'a look' & was all heart & a worker. She just didn't have the singing chops, lol.

Overall we gave it a go, but the drummer & I knew just with glances at each other in rehearsals that our 2 last bandmates were the weak spot. Still, we decided to be the 'nice guys' and keep our mouths shut. Then our guitarist started to not be able to make rehearsals; or get there 30+ minutes late to what rehearsals we did have. The guy was stressed out on the work & personal front but wasn't up for having sit downs w/ me & the drummer to hammer out problems. The drummer & I, again, kept on the 'nice guy' road, venting to each other but no one else.

 

Finally the drummer vented via e-mail. And our bud just unleashed on us both. Pissed me off & I wrote a scathing reply. But then I did, ugh, the nice guy thing again & slept on the message for days on account of it being so harsh. Eventually our bud just ended up pulling the plug on the whole thing, and at one point even turned his guns on me, writing that if I'd had issues why hadn't I written/said anything???

 

Yeeaaah....

Since then, I've just got no time to be 'polite'. Not that I'm a raving asshole, lol. But if something isn't clicking I raise a yellow flag & speak my piece. If things don't get better, I pack up the gear & hit the road.