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THIS Is Why We Play Cheezy Songs....


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Thought it was a pretty good idea, until I pondered the clean up. A local band here uses a modified electric leaf blower to "tee pee" the crowd at their shows. Seen it a dozen times, but never stuck around long enough to see the aftermath.

I agree about the higher dollar gigs. When we played the big food festival on Memorial day weekend, we had a VIP tent, snacks, water, beer and pop, several stage hands to help with set up and tear down, and we had to provide a stage plot ahead of time. Made for a real easy gig. We even had laminated "band" passes on lanyards. Made us look important, at least in our eyes. :thu:

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Not knowing exactly what you mean by "casual laid back attitude",
I think the important think to remember is to have fun in whatever you do, especially with music. If it was just "all business", I wouldn't do what we do. There isn't enough money in it for that. So we have a lot of fun doing it, but we also take things pretty seriously when it's time to go to work. The hours from the beginning of load in until the trailer is packed are pretty serious, but we have a lot of fun after all the work is done. And, of course, the time onstage is fun as well.

 

 

LOL ,,, I know. We take things serious in a casual way. No subs, no big deal, No lights , not an issue. No sound guy situation normal. No sound re enforcment. Fine if you want it louder , move closer to the stage. Its kind of an old school attitude but its just kind of who we are. My theory on the sound deal is ,,, we know how to give a big full blown concert sound and stage crew a great stage mix ,,, and we just dont get all uptight about things. we will eat the green M&M s and we are generally all right guys. For the short time this organization has been together , things are movin along well. Keep it simple , keep it fun, and try to make it the most entertaining show in town.

 

We will eat the BBQ brisket with our hands , but will use the tongs to pick it out of buffet line.

 

We have some great fans and that means everything to us. They are the reason we do this.

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Thought it was a pretty good idea, until I pondered the clean up. A local band here uses a modified electric leaf blower to "tee pee" the crowd at their shows. Seen it a dozen times, but never stuck around long enough to see the aftermath.


I agree about the higher dollar gigs. When we played the big food festival on Memorial day weekend, we had a VIP tent, snacks, water, beer and pop, several stage hands to help with set up and tear down, and we had to provide a stage plot ahead of time. Made for a real easy gig. We even had laminated "band" passes on lanyards. Made us look important, at least in our eyes.
:thu:



I don't know if it's even so much about looking or feeling important, but just feeling like you're treated with the respect you deserve for the talent you have and the hard work you put into it.

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LOL ,,, I know.

 

 

Well, I just think terms like that mean different things to different people. And sometimes they do even within the same band.

 

My guitarist, for example. Most casual laid back guy in the world. And he treats our gigs with the same attitude. And that's great but he's not the one doing all the work. Which is fine too. But SOMEBODY has to do it, or there wouldn't be a gig for him to take a 'casual laid back attitude' about.

 

He could easily come here and write about how doing our gigs are great because he's just so laid back and casual about the whole thing. Because from HIS perspective, that's probably all that's going on.

 

I feel like I take a pretty casual and laid back attitude with what I do as well. But the fact is I'm operating at different level of "casual and laid back" because there's so many things on my plate that need to be dealt with just to make the gigs happen and keep the band operating smoothly. To him, I probably look like I'm running around like a chicken without a head and he's wondering what all the fuss is about.

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:lol:
Yeah, the pretty much sums it up. Reno didn't "upgrade" the way Vegas did in the 90s and then got their ass completely kicked by the proliferation of Indian gaming in California. The only thing it ever had going for it was it was a couple of hours drive from Sacramento and the SF bay area. Now there's half a dozen beautiful casinos within an hour of those places.


But convention business is something a lot of bands don't think about. But yet almost every city has some sort of convention center and draws some sort of convention business. This one was some sort of 'help the kids' non-profit venture I've never heard of. We played a fun party awhile back for a group called the California Seed Council. That's right. The organization you join if you're in the seed business in California. Paid well and was all older folks who wanted nothing but 60s and 70s music. Just the type of stuff so many musicians bitch that they can't find decent gigs playing anymore. But whoda thunk that the A) such a thing as the California Seed Council even exists B) that they have an annual convention C) that they'd want a band for it and D) that it would pay well and be fun to do?


I sure didn't. But there we were playing that gig and making a few grand for a couple of hours work while other bands--musically no worse than we are--were trudging it out down the street playing the same songs in the local pub for $500. And those bands had no idea the gig even happened. They don't get advertised. There's no flyers around town. No radio spots.


So my "preaching" here is that most bands probably don't know what's out there. But you gotta do the work. The old saying goes that "Luck is where Opportunity and Preperation Meet". That's true. But that's only half the story in this business. You also have to create (or at least find) the opportunities.

 

Or you could just not look for opportunities and complain your town of 550,000 or so (according to the 2010 census) doesn't have these opportunities. YMMV.

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I didn't. I provided a link to the convention center in Cincinnati. Wade mentioned Cincy, so I thought it was appropriate. Cincy is only about a half-hour further from where Wade lives than Reno is from me. And Louisville has a convention center as well.


I get a bit defensive sometimes because I resent the attitude that any success we might have is due to where we live. It's both an insult to the hard work we've done AND sends a really bad message to people on this forum looking for new avenues for gigging. Maybe it makes Wade feel better to convince himself that "that just can't be done here" and take that sort of defeatist attitude, but it simply isn't right.


First of all, even if it WERE true that location had a lot to do with it, the fact is that there are dozens of other bands and hundreds of other musicians in this area who would LOVE to get such a gig but not only didn't, but never would in a million years. Instead we got it. Why? Because we're so much more talented and skilled than they are? No. Many of those bands probably kick our ass musicially. It's because we take what we do seriously from a business perspective and do what we need to do to be in the position to take advantage of these sorts of opportunities when they do arise. And instead of making excuses for when we can't do something, instead finding a way to make it happen.


Second of all, it really has nothing to do with location. All sorts of companies and groups hold conventions in all sorts of cities. Have you ever paid attention to the 'groups' holding conferences when you go to almost ANY hotel? Mostly stuff nobody has ever heard of. Yet many have parties and hire bands. And if they do they almost always pay well and the people come ready to party.




Yep. all this. Really seems like you guys are finding your niche. Just takes putting in the work. And being the 'go to' band for any niche is fun and rewarding. Good work.
:thu:





I think the one thing that you high brow guys seem to forget is that you have spent several years building up these bands to what they are today. So many guys on here are either trying to get start up projects off the ground or are in markets where just being a hobby bar band fits their lifestyle. Many are still in the basement and are looking for their first opportunity to play out. Its easy to say , well you need to do this ,, but you really have to be honest that it took several years and several bands to get to where you are today. Not much is really going to short cut that age old process of paying the dues , getting the experience and building a band up to a top organization. You wont get there with a credit card and a guitar center catalog. You get their by playing lots of shows and building a reputation of being able to entertain people and getting them to like you.

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I think the one thing that you high brow guys seem to forget is that you have spent several years building up these bands to what they are today. So many guys on here are either trying to get start up projects off the ground or are in markets where just being a hobby bar band fits their lifestyle. Many are still in the basement and are looking for their first opportunity to play out. Its easy to say , well you need to do this ,, but you really have to be honest that it took several years and several bands to get to where you are today. Not much is really going to short cut that age old process of paying the dues , getting the experience and building a band up to a top organization. You wont get there with a credit card and a guitar center catalog. You get their by playing lots of shows and building a reputation of being able to entertain people and getting them to like you.

 

 

Absolutely. I think it probably takes 2-3 years to get any decent band off the ground regardless of the caliber of players, attention to details, hard work and preparation, etc. But that doesn't mean you don't have to start SOMEWHERE. The "you need to do this" stuff still applies. And much of it is applicable to many other situations. And if it don't, it don't. Just ignore the stuff that doesn't apply to you.

 

Anybody that just wants to be a hobby bar band? Great. If some of the stuff I, or others here, post can give you some advice or inspiration? Great. If not? That's great too. Take what you can use and disregard the rest. That's what a forum like this is all about.

 

I just don't buy the "gee, I'd like to do that, but that just can't be done HERE" attitude. That's just 'weak sauce', as some would say. That defeatist-attitude {censored} pisses me off. Just makes me wanna bitch-slap people, ya know? I'll bet I could find a dozen bands in this town who would say that exact same thing: "gee, the gigs in this town suck. The music scene here sucks. We'd love to do some great paying and really fun gigs, but their just aren't any. This ain't Vegas. I don't care how good your band is. You just can't do that HERE..." And obviously, they'd be wrong.

 

Here's a bit of advice that I think everyone should take and apply to EVERYTHING they do in life: Be happy with what you're doing and where you're at in your life. And if you're not, work to change it rather than make excuses for why what you're doing and where you're at isn't your fault.

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The band is a six-piece. Drums, bass, guitar, keys/guitar, and 2 female vocalists. (No tracks
:D
) The confetti shooters were brought by the people who did the lighting and staging (I think.) This was an easy gig for us in that all the lights and sound were provided. We only had to deal with our stage gear. What a mess! I'm still cleaning confetti out of the gear weeks later! We thought it would be fun to have one of our own, but then quickly realized WE'D probably have to be the ones left to clean it up the gig.


Funny thing about the high dollar events--the bigger the gig, the easier many things are and the better the band is treated. A few weeks before the show, I get a email from the guys doing lights and sound and they want to make sure that everything we need is taken care of. Making sure they bring enough stuff to accomodate the show we need to do, etc. It seems that the more we get paid, the bigger 'rock star' treatment we get and the less work we have to do. The flip side of that coin is getting paid next-to-nothing to be treated like we're putting people out in order to play for 4 hrs in a cramped, stinky bar and they are somehow doing US a favor by letting us play there.

 

I have a feeling you replicate that for your Wedding customers or wait I KNOW you do (the part about them getting in contact with you verify everything aok). You get better advertising from word of mouth than a sign if you ask me, make one person very happy and they tell 10 people, piss off one person they tell 20.....

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I have a feeling you replicate that for your Wedding customers or wait I KNOW you do (the part about them getting in contact with you verify everything aok). You get better advertising from word of mouth than a sign if you ask me, make one person very happy and they tell 10 people, piss off one person they tell 20.....

 

 

Actually, I have a TEAM of people handling 'contact' and details. We're getting this wedding thing down to a science (or at least we're trying) and we found that trying to have one person handle all the details is just too much. It really is a full-time job.

 

So Stan (bass player) is the initial contact person and negotiates the contract. He figures out what all they will need and gives them a price according to all of that, etc. Then he hands the ball off to Amy (singer) who plays "wedding coordinator" and works with the bride (or whoever is in charge) to make sure all the details can be done in a manner that suits their need and is as simple and seemless for the band as possible. Then she hands off to me and I'm in charge of making sure all the bands technical details are taken care of: what equipment we'll need, correct music on iPod, making sure the band has MP3s of any song we might need to learn, working out the musical arrangements, set lists, etc.

 

Yes. We get paid VERY well to do those sorts of weddings. They also are a LOT of work. But, like most things, if you're well-prepared the actual work becomes a cinch. We learned early on that having the details nailed is the difference between a stress-free, fun gig and something that could easily become a nightmare.

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Absolutely. I think it probably takes 2-3 years to get any decent band off the ground regardless of the caliber of players, attention to details, hard work and preparation, etc. But that doesn't mean you don't have to start SOMEWHERE. The "you need to do this" stuff still applies. And much of it is applicable to many other situations. And if it don't, it don't. Just ignore the stuff that doesn't apply to you.


Anybody that just wants to be a hobby bar band? Great. If some of the stuff I, or others here, post can give you some advice or inspiration? Great. If not? That's great too. Take what you can use and disregard the rest. That's what a forum like this is all about.


I just don't buy the "gee, I'd like to do that, but that just can't be done HERE" attitude. That's just 'weak sauce', as some would say. That defeatist-attitude {censored} pisses me off. Just makes me wanna bitch-slap people, ya know? I'll bet I could find a dozen bands in this town who would say that exact same thing:
"gee, the gigs in this town suck. The music scene here sucks. We'd love to do some great paying and really fun gigs, but their just aren't any. This ain't Vegas. I don't care how good your band is. You just can't do that HERE..."
And obviously, they'd be wrong.


Here's a bit of advice that I think everyone should take and apply to EVERYTHING they do in life: Be happy with what you're doing and where you're at in your life. And if you're not, work to change it rather than make excuses for why what you're doing and where you're at isn't your fault.

 

 

I dont know dave ,, when pat says you aint gonna do what you do up in his market ,, I tend to take him at his word. the guy knows his market and has the band skills and ability to call it like it is. I question of you could do it in my market either. We can do weddings but you wont do many 3000 dollar ones. I figure a grand to 1200 is about what this market is gonna top out at. You get to 3000 dollars and you are starting to get into national touring act prices down here and many are at 2 grand, plus rooms. There are many very wealthy mexican families down here that can spring big bucks , but then ,, your a gringo and dont play mexican wedding band stuff. the band that is the closest to what you do has crashed two venues and just opened up a third. Its a bitch down here. I know we can book a 2500 dollar gig ,, but its gonna cost you some money to get out of south texas so you end up kinda where you started out.

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I dont know dave ,, when pat says you aint gonna do what you do up in his market ,, I tend to take him at his word. the guy knows his market and has the band skills and ability to call it like it is. I question of you could do it in my market either.

 

 

Then you should read what I say more and read INTO what I say less. Every market is unique. The reason what we do works is because we do what works for this market. If I were to suddenly up this band and move it to South Texas or Northern Idaho or Western Kentucky, I'd have to make numerous changes in the details of what we do to make it work for those specific markets. Again, that's why I so often say "take what applies and make it work for you." There's no one-siz-fits-all rules in this business. (Or any business.) The best you can do is find yourself some guidelines and take it from there.

 

Again---and I don't know how many times I have to repeat this---I live in a very small town. This isn't much of a market in and of itself. The only reason what we do works HERE is because we're willing to take it on the road. We drove 3 hours to do a wedding on Saturday. Spend the night. Then drove 3 hours back. A lot of musicians and bands aren't willing to do that just for one gig. Even one well-paying gig. Fine. That's their choice. But don't tell me that can't be done ELSEWHERE. Travelling 4 hours to a gig is no big deal for us. We're doing that drive next week. If we all lived where Pat does, we'd probably be playing in Spokane, Seattle and Portland regularly. How many big markets are within 4 hours of Louisville? If we lived where you are we'd probably be in San Antonio a lot. And we'd be playing a lot of Mexican wedding band music I'd imagine as well because that's what the market would require.

 

 

I know we can book a 2500 dollar gig ,,

Listen to yourself. You've been pushing me back on this same BS for 3 years now, yet a lot of what your band is doing is stuff that you either would have insisted to me couldn't be done in your area, or that you didn't care to do because you were just fine doing what you were doing at the time. I'm pretty certain you told me $2500 gigs were either impossible to do in your area or that you simply weren't interested. Now you're doing them and reporting how much fun you have doing them. That's cool. I understand people pretty well. I've known a lot of 'em in my lifetime. It's pretty common for people to want to make excuses to themselves so they don't feel like they are missing out on anything or {censored}ing up in any way. That's fine. That just isn't how I roll, is all. If I want something, I find a way to make it work. And there is almost always a way to do that.

 

 

but its gonna cost you some money to get out of south texas so you end up kinda where you started out.

 

 

It takes money to make money, and the more you make the more expenses you have. That's true. But hopefully it works out so you're doing a little better than where you started out. Our expenses for these travel gigs can get pretty high. For the one this weekend we laid out $220 bucks for rooms (couldn't get those negotiated into the price this time), $250 for the sound guy, another couple hundred bucks for gas for two cars. So what's that? We're out $670 just to DO the gig? Yeah. that's a lot. But....it paid $4,500. So we could still all take $600 a piece and put a couple hundred into the bank for the band kitty.

 

Is that worth it for all the trouble? Is for us. Largely because we enjoy all the work and travel and don't see much of it as "trouble". But YMMV. And that's cool if it does. Really.

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The chick talks to the chick haha heck yeah.... Whose ideer was that?

 

 

Haha. They love it. Amy's great at talking to people and making them feel comfortable and by the time we show up the bride is in love with her and think she's found a new sister. Becomes hard to mess it up at that point. They treat us like old friends/family most of the time.

 

A lot of all of this is being in the "people" business.

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Not much is really going to short cut that age old process of paying the dues , getting the experience and building a band up to a top organization. You wont get there with a credit card and a guitar center catalog. You get their by playing lots of shows and building a reputation of being able to entertain people and getting them to like you.

 

 

THIS.

 

I thought I learned a lot lurking here the last year or so. I've learned 5 times that in the last 4 or 5 months. There are several local bands I aspire to be like. They have all paid their dues however, and I'm just getting started. Doesn't mean I can't get there, but it's going to take some time. As long as I don't lose sight of the prize, I'll get there. Seeing video like this just motivates me to work harder. The top two bands in the area are full of musicians that don't have day jobs. I don't expect I'll ever be in that position, but that doesn't mean my band can't be just as good as theirs.

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I think the one thing that you high brow guys seem to forget is that you have spent several years building up these bands to what they are today. So many guys on here are either trying to get start up projects off the ground or are in markets where just being a hobby bar band fits their lifestyle. Many are still in the basement and are looking for their first opportunity to play out. Its easy to say , well you need to do this ,, but you really have to be honest that it took several years and several bands to get to where you are today. Not much is really going to short cut that age old process of paying the dues , getting the experience and building a band up to a top organization. You wont get there with a credit card and a guitar center catalog. You get their by playing lots of shows and building a reputation of being able to entertain people and getting them to like you.



Actually Tim I've always been upfront and vocal on this board about the time and investment it takes to start earning money as a band beyond the hobby circuit. In fact, I find the complete opposite here. Guys who are barely out of the basement or have had the band together less than a year trying to chase $1000 gigs. I've stated in many posts that we spent the first three years experimenting, trying to find a style we could sell and stabilize the line up. We were together 5 years before we hit $1500 in pay consistently, and it took every bit of 5 years to get there. So I agree with everything you are saying. Every time I come across a new local band that touts itself as the "Best New XXXX Band" in the area I make a note to check out their progress a year from now. ;)

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I agree Grant, but there is nothing wrong with a new band chasing $1000 gigs. As long as they know what it takes to get them. If I wasn't chasing $1000 gigs I'd still be in the band I was in 3 years ago, when a $400 night was a jackpot compared to playing for the door every night.

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I agree Grant, but there is nothing wrong with a new band chasing $1000 gigs. As long as they know what it takes to get them. If I wasn't chasing $1000 gigs I'd still be in the band I was in 3 years ago, when a $400 night was a jackpot compared to playing for the door every night.

 

 

I'm not sure how you define "new" band when you're so often talking about older experienced players, but I'll nutshell my band's story as best I can for you:

 

We started out as a 5-piece classic rock 'dad' band about 10 years ago playing what existed of our little local club scene here. Did that for quite awhile. I never invested much effort into the band because I didn't really see much potential in the lineup. But around 2007 we sort of fell into a couple of better paying private parties ($1200-$1500) and we started focusing on that more as we started to see the potential there. Still, it was a fairly limited effort. In 2009 I decided we should really start going for it. We changed the band name, kicked the promo into high gear, really worked on having the 'right' songs, and things started to happen. Now we were getting $1500-2000 private gigs 6-10 times a year. In 2010, we finally pulled the trigger on putting a female vocalist up front, one of the guys left (partly due to the changes) and in 2011 we added the second one. Now we're booking 30 gigs a year all between $3500-5000. The goal for next year is the push that to 45 gigs.

 

But two important things in this story: A) I don't think those early years meant anything towards the later formation of the band, except on a friendship/personal level. Musically, we could have started the band in 2009 and been in the same place today. B) Same with promotion. We have no following. So, all those years of playing locally mean nothing. In fact, as I sit here, I'm writing up some copy to give to the local paper because we're doing our first public gig in this town in two years. I'm calling it "Tahoe's Best Kept Musical Secret". Seriously, no one knows who we are. I'm hoping to generate some local interest for this gig and maybe reconnect with whatever it was we might have had for an actually 'following' in the old days. For the type of gigs we do, following doesn't matter much. It's all about the upfront sell.

 

Of course every other band will have a different story and building a following is VERY important to most bands. Especially those working the clubs. But our story is one of no following and still making it work.

 

So yeah. Chase the gigs. $1,000 to $1,500 private events is not an unreasonable goal for a startup band at all if you guys put in the right preliminary work with sounding good, having good gear, a good songlist, etc.

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I agree Grant, but there is nothing wrong with a new band chasing $1000 gigs. As long as they know what it takes to get them. If I wasn't chasing $1000 gigs I'd still be in the band I was in 3 years ago, when a $400 night was a jackpot compared to playing for the door every night.

 

 

Yup... nothing wrong with 'the chase'.... as long as everyone is on board for the ride. I've found that some bandmates can get frustrated quickly. They believe they should be at $1000+ within a few months b/c they are 'good'. Someone told me once that Good band doesn't guarantee good pay. I even posted about a band with connections that started in A-list rooms and A-list pay on the backs of their previous bands but quickly lost their footing when their act wasn't up to snuff. If your goal is to make money in this business you have to be patient. There are very few high paying opportunities for a band that is not well established in any area. It takes time, and a solid reputation to become 1st call.

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The band is a six-piece. Drums, bass, guitar, keys/guitar, and 2 female vocalists. (No tracks
:D
) The confetti shooters were brought by the people who did the lighting and staging (I think.) This was an easy gig for us in that all the lights and sound were provided. We only had to deal with our stage gear. What a mess! I'm still cleaning confetti out of the gear weeks later! We thought it would be fun to have one of our own, but then quickly realized WE'D probably have to be the ones left to clean it up the gig.


Funny thing about the high dollar events--the bigger the gig, the easier many things are and the better the band is treated. A few weeks before the show, I get a email from the guys doing lights and sound and they want to make sure that everything we need is taken care of. Making sure they bring enough stuff to accomodate the show we need to do, etc. It seems that the more we get paid, the bigger 'rock star' treatment we get and the less work we have to do. The flip side of that coin is getting paid next-to-nothing to be treated like we're putting people out in order to play for 4 hrs in a cramped, stinky bar and they are somehow doing US a favor by letting us play there.



Truer words were never spoken. My band just did a Festival Friday night as the headline act. All sound and lights were provided, two sound techs one for FOH and one working the monitors. They had two large pizzas for us on stage and two large steel buckets with juices, water, pop. Let us use the facilities as a dressing room which was mere steps away from the stage. Was able to pull my car up right to the back of the stage to do my minor unload of guitar and amp. They raved about the band, treated us like kings, handed me an envelope with cash for our fee (highest paying gig to date $2K) and wants us back again next year.

Next week I'll be at our usual weekend club gig making 25% of that, being ignored, not complimented, not catered to, no food or drink, having to lug in and set-up the PA and all that goes with it, expected to bring people, and working until late at night.

I'm slowly making the transition away from the clubs and if I never have to play one again I'd be a happy man.

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Again---and I don't know how many times I have to repeat this---I live in a very small town. This isn't much of a market in and of itself. The only reason what we do works HERE is because we're willing to take it on the road. We drove 3 hours to do a wedding on Saturday. Spend the night. Then drove 3 hours back. A lot of musicians and bands aren't willing to do that just for one gig. Even one well-paying gig. Fine. That's their choice. But don't tell me that can't be done ELSEWHERE. Travelling 4 hours to a gig is no big deal for us. We're doing that drive next week. If we all lived where Pat does, we'd probably be playing in Spokane, Seattle and Portland regularly. How many big markets are within 4 hours of Louisville? If we lived where you are we'd probably be in San Antonio a lot. And we'd be playing a lot of Mexican wedding band music I'd imagine as well because that's what the market would require.

 

 

This is exactly why you guys are successful. This is a well thought out post that describes what needs to be done if those are the gigs you want. Although I applaud your work ethic and take nothing away from you, the business model that you're following is not unique (there's actually a compliment in there somewhere). I know a ton of great players that wouldn't travel even for a night for a good paying gig. Everyone around here wants their own bed. Obviously you guys make more sacrifices than some other bands and you get rewarded. I think it's awesome and very difficult to find in a band.

 

Although my situation is different because it's a solo gig, my "career" is rocking simply because I've taken a path that most of the others don't. I'm on 11 gigs in 13 days right now. By Thursday that stat will be 13 in 16 and then I'm taking Fri- Wed off and starting over. It's pretty insane if you think about it. Tons of people told me that our area couldn't support that. Whatever- it's just drive and following through I think.

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Whatever- it's just drive and following through I think.

 

 

Exactly. Think it out. Follow your insticts. Follow through. Do what needs to be done. Like you said, the business model we're following is not unique. I've said here over and over that none of this is rocket science. All we've done is look at other bands who are successful in our area, copy a lot of what they do well, tried to carve out a niche that will work in our market that maybe somebody isn't quite doing but suits us well, and go for it.

 

That model is the same in any business whether you're selling music or hamburgers.

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