Shopping your stuff to labels in 2012

[BATCAT]

I haven't "label shopped" at all since the mid-to-late 2000s... my bands fourth record is recorded but unreleased, and as I'm feeling it's an especially strong effort I want to make the rounds with both some US small-to-medium labels as well as some European ones.

 

It seems like a number of things have changed since I last contacted any labels- my impression is that nobody is sending out packets with printed onesheets and CD these days... so my question is how to best set up an online presence to refer labels to when emailing them. (and any other tips)

 

Private streaming seems the way to go, so I recently upgraded to Bandcamp pro. What else? How/where would you host your bio, pics, etc? What info would you include in your email and what would you link to and what would you attach? Any general advice would be really appreciated...

[StratGuy22]

iTunes.

[toddkuen]

CD Baby, musicxray, jango

[BATCAT]

 

iTunes.

 

 

I don't understand.

[BATCAT]

Really, nobody here has any experience with this?

 

Maybe my original question was too vague- what I am wondering is stuff like

-do you send links to private streaming, a download link, or actually attach and send music files?

-do you link to your bio etc (on your website or elsewhere? (...where then?)) or attach to the email you're sending

-do you still send physical packets in the mail (preceded by an email? followed by an email?)

[SLScott86]

I know we're working on an EPK with video and stuff. I wish I could say I've seen it., or how it's delivered. I'm not entirely sure the paper packet is extinct. I think a lot has changed since we last pushed in 09.

[BATCAT]

I think a lot has changed since we last pushed in 09.

 

Yeah, at this point it seems like the ball game changes significantly every 1-2 years.

[rangefinder]

I'm just making an educated guess but the answers so far seem to indicate that instead of doing an online press kit and music streaming, you might as well just go ahead and sell your music directly (e.g. iTunes, spotify, CD Baby) while you are at it, then point any of your contacts at labels in that direction.

 

But I'm curious about the right "answer"... if there even IS such a thing these days.

[BATCAT]

 

I'm just making an educated guess but the answers so far seem to indicate that instead of doing an online press kit and music streaming, you might as well just go ahead and sell your music directly (e.g. iTunes, spotify, CD Baby) while you are at it, then point any of your contacts at labels in that direction.

 

 

Already having the new album released and widely available isn't really incentive for a label to pick it up. The whole reason to look for a label is for the added PR and distribution coinciding with the release of the album, which is somewhat hamstrung if you're already made the whole thing available to everyone...

[Kramerguy]

cdbaby seems to be the status quo for online EPK's. I'm in the lines of thinking that people email A&R execs all day long, and are most likely largely ignored. From my experience in originals, the best way to be heard by the right people is to sign up for music conferences, not just as an attendee, but as a performer. There's conferences such as CMCC, MMC - Millenium Music Conference, etc in my area. Others I'm sure in just about any major metro area. It's hard to explain in generalities, so maybe I should just elaborate from one of our experiences.

 

CMMC - Cape May Music Conference.

We had to be signed up and pay a fee to attend/perform. This is (in most cases) unfortunately done through SonicBids.. gotta pay the piper.

The conference organizers decide which performers (usually about 100 total) perform inside the conference center, vs which ones play local bars and venues (all within a mile of the conference center).

During Friday and saturday day, they have workshops, classes, etc.. performers are allowed to attend all for free. Non-performers had to buy a ticket to attend that part of the conference. All performances except the 'headliner' of the conference are free and done on fri/sat nights after classes and workshops are completed.

 

*the critical mistake 75% of the bands make, is that they sign up and just show up to play the gigs, skipping the conference, or just going there and trying to schmooze industry reps without actually attending any classes or workshops. NOBODY with any clout in the industry is interested in bands/musicians who think they can take short-cuts or take a lazy approach to the conference.

 

There's always a couple of workshops where a panel will review a quick performance or listen to a demo and help offer advice based on what the workshop is.

Many workshops are Q&A. Asking intelligent and thoughtful questions get's you noticed. Asking stupid questions also gets you noticed... but only in the manner that they make a note to avoid you. A good example is "How do I get signed?". Everyone is there to ultimately do that lol.. focus questions on the theme of the workshop

 

Examples of how this conference worked for us:

* In a Q&A workshop about songwriting, The panel consisted of 2 A&R reps, 3 national/world known producers, and a radio program director. We had prepared and asked very well thought out questions and because so many people had asked stupid questions, ours became the most prominent, and much of the time was spend discussing the answers. Two of the producers approached us afterwards and were interested in working with us. It's worth mentioning that more than just recording, both of these guys were HUGE in the sense of networking, especially with some key A&R reps.

*From that same Q&A, one of the A&R reps talked with a couple of other people about us, and they decided to come out to scout us in the venue we were set up to perform in that night. About 5 "VIP's" showed up and watched us do a full set.

*from a different workshop, we did a 1/2 song performance and played a partial track from our CD for feedback, one of the panelists was a publisher, who took notice and pulled us aside after the workshop, and after a few months ultimately signed a publishing contract to use one of our songs for film/tv. From him adding that one song to his library, the today show music director got wind of us, looked up our other stuff, found a song they liked, licensed the use via ASCAP, and used it for 11 seconds on the air. Our cut- $450, for just 11 seconds!

*there are classes on branding, marketing, promotion, etc.. all are a great help and relevant to today's industry. I still have my notes from previous years.. meant to write some really long articles based on what I learned both in the classes and from practical application. I believe after the 09/10 CMMC conferences, I may have posted some in the music biz forum - can't quite remember. It might take some digging lol.

 

The whole concept of it is that building up to "getting signed" is now a multi-step process, as the fixx put it "one thing leads to another". Networking is king. Having a great product and especially a good attitude goes a long way today.

 

I've watched them 'cherry pick' other artists time and time again at these things. I even have a great story about a situation at one of these (maybe I will post a thread about it), in which someone did get signed to a major label, a few months later, of course.

[BATCAT]

 

cdbaby seems to be the status quo for online EPK's. I'm in the lines of thinking that people email A&R execs all day long, and are most likely largely ignored. From my experience in originals, the best way to be heard by the right people is to sign up for music conferences, not just as an attendee, but as a performer. There's conferences such as CMCC, MMC - Millenium Music Conference, etc in my area. Others I'm sure in just about any major metro area. It's hard to explain in generalities, so maybe I should just elaborate from one of our experiences. CMMC - Cape May Music Conference. We had to be signed up and pay a fee to attend/perform. This is (in most cases) unfortunately done through SonicBids.. gotta pay the piper. The conference organizers decide which performers (usually about 100 total) perform inside the conference center, vs which ones play local bars and venues (all within a mile of the conference center). During Friday and saturday day, they have workshops, classes, etc.. performers are allowed to attend all for free. Non-performers had to buy a ticket to attend that part of the conference. All performances except the 'headliner' of the conference are free and done on fri/sat nights after classes and workshops are completed. *the critical mistake 75% of the bands make, is that they sign up and just show up to play the gigs, skipping the conference, or just going there and trying to schmooze industry reps without actually attending any classes or workshops. NOBODY with any clout in the industry is interested in bands/musicians who think they can take short-cuts or take a lazy approach to the conference. There's always a couple of workshops where a panel will review a quick performance or listen to a demo and help offer advice based on what the workshop is. Many workshops are Q&A. Asking intelligent and thoughtful questions get's you noticed. Asking stupid questions also gets you noticed... but only in the manner that they make a note to avoid you. A good example is "How do I get signed?". Everyone is there to ultimately do that lol.. focus questions on the theme of the workshop Examples of how this conference worked for us: * In a Q&A workshop about songwriting, The panel consisted of 2 A&R reps, 3 national/world known producers, and a radio program director. We had prepared and asked very well thought out questions and because so many people had asked stupid questions, ours became the most prominent, and much of the time was spend discussing the answers. Two of the producers approached us afterwards and were interested in working with us. It's worth mentioning that more than just recording, both of these guys were HUGE in the sense of networking, especially with some key A&R reps. *From that same Q&A, one of the A&R reps talked with a couple of other people about us, and they decided to come out to scout us in the venue we were set up to perform in that night. About 5 "VIP's" showed up and watched us do a full set. *from a different workshop, we did a 1/2 song performance and played a partial track from our CD for feedback, one of the panelists was a publisher, who took notice and pulled us aside after the workshop, and after a few months ultimately signed a publishing contract to use one of our songs for film/tv. From him adding that one song to his library, the today show music director got wind of us, looked up our other stuff, found a song they liked, licensed the use via ASCAP, and used it for 11 seconds on the air. Our cut- $450, for just 11 seconds ! *there are classes on branding, marketing, promotion, etc.. all are a great help and relevant to today's industry. I still have my notes from previous years.. meant to write some really long articles based on what I learned both in the classes and from practical application. I believe after the 09/10 CMMC conferences, I may have posted some in the music biz forum - can't quite remember. It might take some digging lol. The whole concept of it is that building up to "getting signed" is now a multi-step process, as the fixx put it "one thing leads to another". Networking is king. Having a great product and especially a good attitude goes a long way today. I've watched them 'cherry pick' other artists time and time again at these things. I even have a great story about a situation at one of these (maybe I will post a thread about it), in which someone did get signed to a major label, a few months later, of course.

 

 

Appreciate the input. I'll look into CD Baby for our EPK.

 

I have to admit my previous experiences (in other bands) with conferences like CMJ and SXSW have left me a bit jaded. However it is possible (though not too likely) we migth end up doing a spot at CMJ. Interesting what you say regarding classes/workshops. I'll definitely keep that in mind of we end up going. I'm not aware of any regional conferences up here. (but I could be ill-informed).

 

I'm hoping our track record alone at this point might be enough to get the attention of some smaller local labels- our previous three releases have gotten pretty widespread/positive local press, we've had our music used a number of times in successful independent films, we've charted on KEXP multiple times, the producer of our latest album is getting a LOT of attention right now, and the unreleased album is (I feel and everybody who has head it feels) our best yet by a wide margin. I just want to have all our ducks in a row when we begin contacting labels. (I also have contacts and "ins" with some, so that will help too)

[Kramerguy]

 

Appreciate the input. I'll look into CD Baby for our EPK. I have to admit my previous experiences (in other bands) with conferences like CMJ and SXSW have left me a bit jaded. However it is possible (though not too likely) we migth end up doing a spot at CMJ. Interesting what you say regarding classes/workshops. I'll definitely keep that in mind of we end up going. I'm not aware of any regional conferences up here. (but I could be ill-informed). I'm hoping our track record alone at this point might be enough to get the attention of some smaller local labels- our previous three releases have gotten pretty widespread/positive local press, we've had our music used a number of times in successful independent films, we've charted on KEXP multiple times, the producer of our latest album is getting a LOT of attention right now, and the unreleased album is (I feel and everybody who has head it feels) our best yet by a wide margin. I just want to have all our ducks in a row when we begin contacting labels. (I also have contacts and "ins" with some, so that will help too)

 

 

One thing worth mentioning is that these conferences I speak of are a different beast than conferences like SXSW, which are more or less performance festivals. I'm sure some simply google searches for 'music conferences' would yield some good results, and make it a point to look for ones that have workshops, classes, and most importantly- panels.

[SLScott86]

 

Already having the new album released and widely available isn't really incentive for a label to pick it up. The whole reason to look for a label is for the added PR and distribution coinciding with the release of the album, which is somewhat hamstrung if you're already made the whole thing available to everyone...

 

 

Yup. An album in circulation is seen as damaged goods from my understanding.

[caeman]

But if an indie album can sell well, won't that show to the labels the potential of the band to an actual market?

[SLScott86]

 

But if an indie album can sell well, won't that show to the labels the potential of the band to an actual market?

 

 

The band, yes. But that album? Not really. Obviously there are always exceptions, but labels will want to release something new. Obviously though I'm not in any position to call myself an expert. This is just what I've been told more than once.

[Nijyo]

 

The band, yes. But that album? Not really. Obviously there are always exceptions, but labels will want to release something new. Obviously though I'm not in any position to call myself an expert. This is just what I've been told more than once.

 

 

Incidentally, this is often the case in the book publishing industry as well (that is, say you wrote a work and put it on the Internet in complete form, either as a serial novel or in some wholly-completed form -- in order to publish hardcopy, they would require you to take down the free version).

 

Or, well, it was.

 

There's a small but growing number of publishers who specifically go look for folks with completed works and then work to provide a published, proofread, and professionally edited hardcopy which they can facilitate distribution of for the author and who consider the online work to be a "prototype" of sorts that has already created an existing customer/fan base for the author.

 

To a large extent this originally was something developed for web comics artists whose mode of operation is *always* to publish on the web first and then collect into a compilation later. The key there is that the published collection has some value-add that entices the purchase over simply going to the website and reading it all. It's just now moving into the prose world.

 

I can see labels going the same way, eventually.

[BATCAT]

But if an indie album can sell well, won't that show to the labels the potential of the band to an actual market?

 

If your album is already selling well, who needs a label?

 

Anyhow, the point is, releasing and promoting your album yourself is not going is not going to make a label want to release and promote it a second time, generally speaking. And the better you do it, the less there even is for the label to do, not to mention the fact that you've already blown your "reveal". A successful self-released album might attract label interest in future albums, but that's not where I'm at right now... we're already self-released three, and my focus right now is to try to work with a label to for this one. (at least, that's plan "a")

[rangefinder]

If your album is already selling well, who needs a label? Anyhow, the point is, releasing and promoting your album yourself is not going is not going to make a label want to release and promote it a second time, generally speaking. And the better you do it, the less there even is for the label to do, not to mention the fact that you've already blown your "reveal". A successful self-released album might attract label interest in future albums, but that's not where I'm at right now... we're already self-released three, and my focus right now is to try to work with a label to for this one. (at least, that's plan "a")

 

IDK, if you already have contacts at these labels, why not ask a couple of them (or their assistants) how they want submissions?

[rangefinder]

If your album is already selling well, who needs a label?

 

Well, it's probably getting off-topic, but that's exactly why a whole bunch of people are wondering what, exactly, labels will do in the future. Because except for a very few A-list artists, labels generally don't do much of anything to promote albums from the ground up. They just release it and see what happens. IF the albums generate heat, THEN they jump in to make it bigger. But generating the heat to start with is the artist's job. And if you have to do the bulk of the promotion yourself anyway, why not release it on your own, and then if it gets anywhere, let the label prove to YOU why it can be valuable at that point.

[BATCAT]

 

IDK, if you already have contacts at these labels, why not ask a couple of them (or their assistants) how they want submissions?

 

 

Well, it's mostly acquaintance-of-acquaintance kind of stuff, but I have gotten some guidelines... I just haven't been able to detect any kind of consensus, hence asking here...

 

Incidentally, I was just contacted by one of the folks working at rockstarmotel.com (someone I know from him running another locally-oriented site) who wants to work with us to promote our stuff on there and play a local showcase for the website.. It seems kinda like a combination music/social networking site also aimed at connecting fans, A&R, and bands. Kinda interesting. When our bio is finished I'm going to set up an EPK there for starters with the bio, press quotes, etc...

[BATCAT]

 

And if you have to do the bulk of the promotion yourself anyway, why not release it on your own, and then if it gets anywhere, let the label prove to YOU why it can be valuable at that point.

 

 

Because versus a DIY release, the right small label can provide all kinds of help in terms of booking connections, a modest PR campaign, distribution, and other connections. There are small labels that do promote albums from the ground up, based on their wanting to get behind the music itself. There are a number degrees between Big Labels You've Heard Of and complete DIY. (which I've been doing for five years with this band)

[rangefinder]

 

Because versus a DIY release, the right small label can provide all kinds of help in terms of booking connections, a modest PR campaign, distribution, and other connections. There are small labels that do promote albums from the ground up, based on their wanting to get behind the music itself. There are a number degrees between Big Labels You've Heard Of and complete DIY. (which I've been doing for five years with this band)

 

 

Makes sense, and those labels might become an increasingly important component of the music biz.

 

Anyway, thanks for the insight, and best of luck getting in signed to one of them!

[Lee Knight]

"Getting signed" doesn't mean much anymore. It can still be a way to tap into the organization and order of people used to doing it. So that does still exist. But... to what end? To sell CDs? CDs don't sell anymore. To maximize iTunes downloads? Well, sure. But we all know the current $$$ climate and pirating scenario. So, what really, is the goal? To chase a dream that doesn't exist anymore? I think that's what's happening a lot today. Bands following the trad route and the route doesn't go anywhere anymore. You can't get there from here cause there is no there.

 

Sync.

 

Getting your original material and recordings placed to picture is the current model. It's not the dream we grew up with, but it is the current reality. And yeah, getting a placement in Grey's Anatomy, etc. would be GREAT... but it isn't prudent shooting for that. That's like saying "We're going to play The Garden next month" and you don't have a fan base yet. But getting placed even in the background of a TLC show is a great break for a band. Work toward getting sync opportunities and you're well on your way to getting paid for your music. And your name gets around, and your profile grows, and you get a sync in an MTV show, and...

 

This seems to be the current route to getting returns from your music and growing a career today.

 

And here's where the new model shows similarities with the old. You research sync houses like you research record companies. And when you manage to get a bite, you foster the relationship. You work with them to find those small starter sync opportunities with the plan to grow through that route.

 

Being in a band that has their music in any sort of sync situation is not a bad thing anymore. It is the brass ring. Audiences do not percieve this as selling out and not cool. With sync opportunies comes money and the ability to maintain your band and do shows that people might even show up to while out on the road.

 

It doesn't make you the band that had that song on that reality show about white trash on TLC, it makes you a band they heard of somehow. You're now on the radar through the snowball effect. This is the new reality.

[BATCAT]

 

"Getting signed" doesn't mean much anymore. It can still be a way to tap into the organization and order of people used to doing it. So that does still exist. But... to what end? To sell CDs? CDs don't sell anymore. To maximize iTunes downloads? Well, sure. But we all know the current $$$ climate and pirating scenario. So, what really, is the goal? To chase a dream that doesn't exist anymore?

 

 

I am really just looking for an small independent label, probably local, to help with stuff like footing the cost of a publicist, getting better booking connections in town and regionally, possibly some help with licensing, getting more airplay, getting showcase spots, yadda yadda. I'm not trying to quit my job and become a rock star or something.

[SLScott86]

I don't think that selling records is that dead to be a totally invalid goal. It's just really unlikely now.Sync is probably the best way to bridge the gap between working for a living and being a full-time recording artist and touring musician. But I don't think it's the end.