Members richardmac Posted November 22, 2011 Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 OK, so this is a for real question dealing with our favorite topic to debate, backing tracks. I've got, I dunno, 135 or so songs that I supposedly know how to play. The vast majority use backing tracks. I can't practice all 135 songs every day, so I try to practice every song at least every once in a while. I have "You Might Think" in my collective and I haven't played it in several months. So I pop up the backing track and lyrics and run through it. I get to the guitar solo, and... crap! I couldn't remember part of it. It's not a difficult solo at all, but I didn't remember it note for note and I botched it. The point being, if I'm at a gig and someone had asked me to play that song, I would have fracked up the solo because I hadn't practiced it in a while. I'm wondering, for those of you who use backing tracks, does this happen to you? How do you deal with it? I guess I could make a habit of running through the songs with guitar solos at least once a week so they'd at least be fresh in my mind. A solo acoustic guy with no backing tracks doesn't have to worry about this because they don't do the solos. I would imagine that some people just improv the solos anyway, but I really like trying to get solos as note for note as I can. And the songs I pick that have solos are... well, the solo is an important part of the song. Like in "Crazy Little Thing Called Love." That's a relatively easy solo, but people want to hear it as is, not some clod improvising as if they could come up with a better solo than Brian May did. I was just curious if anyone else has run into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted November 22, 2011 Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 In my current solo repetoire I don't do any tunes that have "written" or mandated solos with the possible exception of George Benson's Give Me The Night. And I still remember that eight bar solo after thirty years, so I don't have to worry. But even back when I was in Rock bands I wouldn't copy the solos. I might give a nod but I wouldn't copy them. For instance, six nights a week of doing Satriani's Crush of Love with the same solo would be really boring. Now having said all that there are the solo(s) from Ramble On by Zeppelin that I learned just a few years ago (old dog new tricks) and it was fun to play those verbatim. Oh yea, and I guess I used to play the solo from TOP's What Is Hip, note for note. Oh well, guess I'm not much help on this topic..... and don't say as usual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted November 22, 2011 Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 Why do you want to be a copycat and play note for note? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lz4005 Posted November 22, 2011 Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 Why do you want to be a copycat and play note for note? Playing with tracks takes away most of your room to improvise, he'd like to do away with the rest. Makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wrongnote85 Posted November 22, 2011 Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 think ahead before the solo. if you can't remember the lead by the second verse or so than be ready to improvise. you should be ready to improvise anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members YeahDoIt Posted November 22, 2011 Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 Listening, singing along with tracks with my mp3 player helps me to remember. If I don't practice then I make a lot more mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike McLaughlin Posted November 22, 2011 Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 Playing with tracks takes away most of your room to improvise, he'd like to do away with the rest. Makes sense to me. That's just mean. That would be akin to saying, People that won't play to tracks don't because they can't keep a steady tempo. Some I try to copy (like Crazy Little Thing...), most I just improvise, and if I can, give a nod to the original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Surrealistic Posted November 22, 2011 Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 I don't do many covers and when I do I don't ever try playing note-for-note stuff. I almost always improvise on the solos anyway, where I can, as I don't use backing tracks. The nearest I come to that is using my looper and soloing over that - but I don't do that often either. Come to think of it, why am I posting any kind of response here? Sorry, move along now, nothing to see here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted November 22, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 Why do you want to be a copycat and play note for note? Flip it around and ask the reverse question - why would an audience member want me to change the solo? If you think of it from the perspective of the audience as opposed to from the musician, it makes sense. Brian May wrote a killer guitar solo for Crazy Little Thing Called Love - I can't improvise a better one than that. Brian is one of my top 3 favorite guitar players ever - I love his work. I do, though, totally change the solos on all my SRV songs. Mostly 'cause I can't play exactly like he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted November 22, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 Playing with tracks takes away most of your room to improvise, he'd like to do away with the rest. Makes sense to me. No, what I'm trying to do is please the audience. I'll improvise on "The House Is Rockin" and "Tell Me." But not on "Crazy Little Thing Called Love" or "You Might Think." When a guitar player changes the solo to "Crazy Little Thing" he's pleasing one person in the building - himself. The rest of the crowd either doesn't care or thinks "Huh, that doesn't sound right." The solo is an important part of the song for some songs, but not for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted November 22, 2011 Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 Here's the thing; I'm not Brian May, but when I'm recording, what winds up being the break is something I've improvised (and polished) at the time. I'd be horrified if I thought that meant I was restricted to duplicating my own solo live. So why would I want to duplicated someone else's? As an audience member I don't give a damn about whether the break is identical so long as it's functional (puts a pause in the lyric) and in the spirit of the specific performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 22, 2011 Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 Duplicating recorded solos is a tricky thing. As far as the artist is concerned, it's just a snapshot of the way he played a song on a particular day and time. He may have done multiple takes and played them all differently. He may have cut and pasted those takes together to get a nice little solo. And once the record gets released, that becomes the "right way" to play it, though the original artist himself will rarely do so. Almost none of the guitar players I've seen or heard live play solos just like the original record- not Clapton, Santana, SRV, Iommi, ZZTop, Vince Gill, Brad Paisley, Chet Atkins, Steve Stills, Sonny Landreth, none of them. Sadly, though, it's the original recording the public expects to hear, and what should be an exercise in artistic interpretation becomes an exercise in ear training and technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lz4005 Posted November 22, 2011 Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 That's just mean. That would be akin to saying, People that won't play to tracks don't because they can't keep a steady tempo. I didn't say he can't improvise, I said he doesn't want to. Big difference. I agree with BlueStrat that trying to play note for note is a losing proposition and misses the point most of the time. If people wanted to hear the original song exactly as recorded they'd listen to the original recording. The point of having a live musician is so they can put their own spin on the song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Telecruiser Posted November 22, 2011 Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 Improvise, adapt and overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted November 22, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 I didn't say he can't improvise, I said he doesn't want to. Big difference. I agree with BlueStrat that trying to play note for note is a losing proposition and misses the point most of the time. If people wanted to hear the original song exactly as recorded they'd listen to the original recording. The point of having a live musician is so they can put their own spin on the song. I think you're mistaking your opinion for fact. The point of having a live musician is to have live entertainment. Whether audience members care if the solo is note for note depends on the song, the artist, and the audience. I think I gave pretty good examples above - the "Crazy Little Thing Called Love" solo is very melodic and recognizable - you can pretty much sing along with it. Whereas I can't sing or remember how the real solo for "The House Is Rockin" goes. So to me (and I think most audiences) I would want to hear the note for note Brian May solo, but I don't care if the House Is Rockin solo is note for note, because I wouldn't have a clue if it was or wasn't. And I agree with BlueStrat that the original solo is what the public wants to hear, most of the time. Regarding people wanting to here YOUR spin on a song - I don't think that's ever the case, unless you're an established artist. If I start playing "Love Her Madly" by The Doors, I don't think anyone is thinking "Oh, cool, it's the Doors, let's see what this guy playing in this bar's artistic interpretation of the original artist's work is like." No, they WANT me to sound as much like the original as I can. They want me to do a good job. So I guess I pretty much disagree with all of your points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike McLaughlin Posted November 22, 2011 Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 I didn't say he can't improvise, I said he doesn't want to. Big difference. OK, no harm no foul. And I do agree that a live solo need not be note for note, and is better not to. However, in the the song he referred to (Crazy Little Thing Called Love), that solo is one of the hooks of the song. What about other hooks in a song? Do you make up your own riffs (not solos), or play the signature riff that makes the song? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted November 22, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 OK, no harm no foul. And I do agree that a live solo need not be note for note, and is better not to. However, in the the song he referred to (Crazy Little Thing Called Love), that solo is one of the hooks of the song. What about other hooks in a song? Do you make up your own riffs (not solos), or play the signature riff that makes the song? YES. You get the point. I think guitarists in general think everyone is dying to hear them solo. And improvise. Guitarists worldwide are still mourning because modern popular music hasn't had guitar solos since the big hair metal bands of the 80's. If I heard a good guitar solo on a top 40 radio station I'd probably fall out of my chair. Used to be even the pop stuff had solos (Pat Benetar, Journey, et al.) Not any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lz4005 Posted November 22, 2011 Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 What about other hooks in a song? Do you make up your own riffs (not solos), or play the signature riff that makes the song? I usually play the hook and make up the rest. Then again, half of what I play is mashups of multiple songs, so I'm playing the hook from one song with the lyrics from a different one in a rhythm that wasn't what either was originally recorded in. And the next time I play it it'll usually be completely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike McLaughlin Posted November 22, 2011 Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 Then again, half of what I play is mashups of multiple songs, so I'm playing the hook from one song with the lyrics from a different one in a rhythm that wasn't what either was originally recorded in. And the next time I play it it'll usually be completely different. I would probably enjoy listening to that, but the crowd I'm being paid to play to would be like, "huh?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fingerpicker Posted November 22, 2011 Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 Here's the deal: A song like Ac/Dc You shook me all night long yo want to do note for note. A song like Grateful dead Scarlet Begonia's you improvise..Point is if the audience can sing the solo then you should play it like the record. Who Wants to hear Sultans of swing and you just improvise????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lz4005 Posted November 22, 2011 Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 Here's the deal: A song like Ac/Dc You shook me all night long yo want to do note for note. Not if you're playing in a country bar. [video=youtube;r1LWOuFhal0] I would probably enjoy listening to that, but the crowd I'm being paid to play to would be like, "huh?" Yeah, a lot depends on the venue. The places I play about half the crowd gets it, the rest don't seem to notice or care. I used to play jazz standards in a duo, on bass with a piano player. In those songs all that mattered was getting the chords right and playing the hook once or twice. It was accepted, even expected that the rest of it would be improvised. We'd pick a key based on the range of which of us was singing and a rhythm that we thought was interesting. If it was an instrumental we'd pick keys at random almost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fingerpicker Posted November 22, 2011 Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 Uh yeah hayseed dixie is following the solo much like Angus played it, and the opening riff is there. Thhanks for helping me prove my point I guess. Hayseed plays much of their covers true to the song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted November 22, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 22, 2011 You can't remember the solo to "You Might Think" either, which, according to your logic means nobody else can either, invalidating the point of this whole thread. That is called the "we should have hired a DJ" argument. If you aren't adding anything to the song what is the point of being there? Your first comment demonstrates the fact that you're not trying to understand my point of view - you're just trying to argue yours. Your second point demonstrates that you don't understand why the average person likes to see live music. You look at music from a musician's point of view and assume that everyone does, but they don't. Seriously - you can't understand that a person performing a song as close as possible to the original is appealing to audiences? How do you explain tribute bands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lz4005 Posted November 23, 2011 Members Share Posted November 23, 2011 How do you explain tribute bands? I can't explain tribute bands. They are just sad. (the only exceptions being Fab Faux and Steel Panther) You look at music from a musician's point of view That's because I'm a musician. What are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bajazz Posted November 23, 2011 Members Share Posted November 23, 2011 A solo acoustic guy with no backing tracks doesn't have to worry about this because they don't do the solos.Wrong, I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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