Need vocal processor/harmonizer info please.

[Bobby1Note]

 

Originally Posted by Bobby1Note

Well, I went into Montreal today, and got a brief look at a few processors. Unfortunately, we had no time to try them out, but I'll be going back into the city again next week. In the meantime, I'm going to scour our local Craigslist and Kijiji ad's, to see what's available, and it'll give me time to do a bit more research.

I came VERY close to telling the salesman, "I'll take that new VL-2"

 

Geesh, that was quick. Zero,,,zip,,,nothing,,,nadda,,, neither on Kijiji, nor Craigslist, for T.C Helicon,,, nor VoiceLive,,,, nor for vocal processor".

Found a ton of "T.C. Helicon"stuff on eBay,,,,, including a vendor that's not far away (Clinton N.Y.). Right now, models in the running are the VoiceTone Harmony G-XT, the VoiceLive Play, VoiceLive Play G-XT,,, and the VL-2.

Here's a question; does anybody know where I can find the VoiceLive-2 tote-bag for a reasonable price? Should I order the 3-way foot-switch for any of the above units?

[John Ellis]

 

Originally Posted by Bobby1Note

Geesh, that was quick. Zero,,,zip,,,nothing,,,nadda,,, neither on Kijiji, nor Craigslist, for T.C Helicon,,, nor VoiceLive,,,, nor for vocal processor".

Found a ton of "T.C. Helicon"stuff on eBay,,,,, including a vendor that's not far away (Clinton N.Y.). Right now, models in the running are the VoiceTone Harmony G-XT, the VoiceLive Play, VoiceLive Play G-XT,,, and the VL-2.

Here's a question; does anybody know where I can find the VoiceLive-2 tote-bag for a reasonable price? Should I order the 3-way foot-switch for any of the above units?

 

I'd get the unit first before buying any accessories

[n8cJohn]

 

Originally Posted by Bobby1Note

Geesh, that was quick. Zero,,,zip,,,nothing,,,nadda,,, neither on Kijiji, nor Craigslist, for T.C Helicon,,, nor VoiceLive,,,, nor for vocal processor".

Found a ton of "T.C. Helicon"stuff on eBay,,,,, including a vendor that's not far away (Clinton N.Y.). Right now, models in the running are the VoiceTone Harmony G-XT, the VoiceLive Play, VoiceLive Play G-XT,,, and the VL-2.

Here's a question; does anybody know where I can find the VoiceLive-2 tote-bag for a reasonable price? Should I order the 3-way foot-switch for any of the above units?

 

I use a trade show give away bag to haul my VL 2 around. Fits perfectly and has a front pouch where I keep all my re-stringing supplies.

That 3 way foot switch - I think is only useful in combination with the Voice Live Touch. When I was considering that unit - it seems that the footswitch was on backorder - everywhere - for a long time. You definitely dont need any other switches for the VL2.

[Sgt. Rock]

How is your bass player able to use the harmony device, doesn't it need a chord to make harmonies?

 

Originally Posted by n8cJohn

In the past I've owned:

Digitech Vocalist Live 2

TC Helicon Harmony G-XT

I got rid of the Digitech the first time I head another performer using a Helicon

I got rid of the Helicon right away after a show or two because my clumsy feet kept hitting the flat button above the harmony on/off button and changing the patch mid song.

I then sprung for the Helicon Voice Live 2 - and for many of the above reasons in other posts - still use it for both my acts (full band and acoustic trio). Is it perfect? nope. Is it worth $800? I think so.

I also bought a used Harmony G - to keep in my bag as a spare. My bass player recently started to use it in both my acts.

I'm a Digitec fan for guitar processors - but the Helicon vocal procesors are superior - in my experience.

 

[Bobby1Note]

 

Originally Posted by Bobby1Note

does anybody know where I can find the VoiceLive-2 tote-bag for a reasonable price? Should I order the 3-way foot-switch for any of the above units?

 

 

Originally Posted by John Ellis

I'd get the unit first before buying any accessories

 

At this stage, I'm just trying to get an idea of what a "complete package" would cost. If any one of these units can benefit from the 3-way foot-switch for example, I'd order it at the same time. A clearly-marked tote-bag would also be handy to reduce the clutter, and keep things organized. (processors, power-supplies, D.I. boxes, mics, cables, etc)

[the_big_e]

TC Helicon's 3 button foot switch is called 'switch 3' or something. When I was looking for one it was basically unavailable. I ended up getting a Digitech FS3X switch (for $15 from local GC). It is exactly the same electronically and works fine with the Harmony M I have.

[Bobby1Note]

 

Originally Posted by Sgt. Rock

How is your bass player able to use the harmony device, doesn't it need a chord to make harmonies?

 

Speaking of "chords",,, I play finger-style acoustic-guitar,,, mostly on nylon-stringed instruments. Is this a potential problem for these processors? Also, Some of the classical guitars I play, have no "pick-up". Are they an issue, or is this simply a matter of signal-routing? (mic'ing the guitar)

[DrFunky]

 

Originally Posted by Bobby1Note

At this stage, I'm just trying to get an idea of what a "complete package" would cost. If any one of these units can benefit from the 3-way foot-switch for example, I'd order it at the same time. A clearly-marked tote-bag would also be handy to reduce the clutter, and keep things organized. (processors, power-supplies, D.I. boxes, mics, cables, etc)

 

Bobby, I think you got good advice previously. Don't get the footswitch etc until after you have the unit. I do know that the TCH Switch 3 works with many of their foot pedal units but check to be sure. VL2 does not need it as it has so many footswitches already. There is a place for an expression pedal on that one. Switch 3 will cost ~$49 maybe less on E-Bay. This will expand a 3 switch VL Play/ or Play GTX to 6 switches for example.

[Bobby1Note]

You guys have been VERY helpful, and I'm gradually narrowing this down. Thanks for your patience, and as time allows this weekend, I'll check out some of you guys' web-sites.

Mike McLaughlin; I checked out one of your videos, and was simply blown away with your set-up and sound. The backing-tracks in particular, were sensational.

[Mike McLaughlin]

 

Originally Posted by Bobby1Note

Mike McLaughlin; I checked out one of your videos, and was simply blown away with your set-up and sound. The backing-tracks in particular, were sensational.

 

Hey man, thanks for the kind words. I'm only a weekend warrior, not full time. I am blown away by some of the others here!

Regarding the switch-3 optional pedal, on the VL play GTX, it is only used for looping.

[n8cJohn]

 

Originally Posted by Sgt. Rock

How is your bass player able to use the harmony device, doesn't it need a chord to make harmonies?

 

The units rely heavily on the root and the third of the key/scale you are playing. Our bass player is busy enough that the unit figures out where it needs to be.

If you want to, you can "borrow the chords" from another player by having that other player send his signal into the guitar in and out the Thru jack. Gotta watch impedence issues with long cables, however.

[n8cJohn]

 

Originally Posted by Bobby1Note

Speaking of "chords",,, I play finger-style acoustic-guitar,,, mostly on nylon-stringed instruments. Is this a potential problem for these processors? Also, Some of the classical guitars I play, have no "pick-up". Are they an issue, or is this simply a matter of signal-routing? (mic'ing the guitar)

 

If you are worried that the unit might not detect which key/scale you need for a finger picking song - you can just strum the chords ahead of playing the song - and the key/scale will be set correctly. I suspect that it would keep up with your fingerpicking, though.

As for mic'd guitars - you'd have to get the mic down to a quarter inch input and then take the Thru out for your guitar sound to continue on to the p.a.

[DrFunky]

 

Originally Posted by n8cJohn

If you are worried that the unit might not detect which key/scale you need for a finger picking song - you can just strum the chords ahead of playing the song - and the key/scale will be set correctly. I suspect that it would keep up with your fingerpicking, though.

As for mic'd guitars - you'd have to get the mic down to a quarter inch input and then take the Thru out for your guitar sound to continue on to the p.a.

 

Another cool thing I have discovered about the VoiceLive Play GTX (as well as the voiceLive Play) is that they both have stereo internal mics which can be used in a live situation to pick up the key for auto-correction as well as the Harmony voices. This way you can register the key by playing an acoustic instrument near the units or even use the sound from an entire band. The GTX has a few more options... The unit first makes decisions based on the instrument input (either guitar or keyboard audio), then the Midi input coming from a keyboard for example, there is also an auxillary input in which audio from an MP3 or say one of your recorded tracks on computer can set the key. USB works as well as part of the the midi system but you have to alert the unit in the settings menu whether you want it to watch Midi or USB (or both), the last option it reads is the 2 internal mics. Lots of options here for determining the key you are in. The VoiceLive Play has the auxillary input and you can put an input from an instrument thru that too as well as having the 2 internal mics. It does not have the dedicated instrument input or the midi In.

[Terry Allan Hall]

What I'd like to see is the option of "adding" voices on the fly...say, start out, on the verse, w/ just your own vocal, then add a 3rd above for the 1st part of the chorus, and then maybe add an octave, a 5th above and a 5th below for the next part of the chorus.

A guy up in Omaha I know modified his VL4 to do this, using a bank of buttons, and, used discretely and sparingly, it's a nice sound, but he told me that it took two tries to get it right, ruining the 1st VL4 that he tried it on.

Does any company make a guitar-thru unit that does this right out of the box?

[DrFunky]

 

Originally Posted by Terry Allan Hall

What I'd like to see is the option of "adding" voices on the fly...say, start out, on the verse, w/ just your own vocal, then add a 3rd above for the 1st part of the chorus, and then maybe add an octave, a 5th above and a 5th below for the next part of the chorus.

A guy up in Omaha I know modified his VL4 to do this, using a bank of buttons, and, used discretely and sparingly, it's a nice sound, but he told me that it took two tries to get it right, ruining the 1st VL4 that he tried it on.

Does any company make a guitar-thru unit that does this right out of the box?

 

Terry, You could accomplish that easily with any of the units we are discussing by making several presets in order , and pressing the program button to get to the next level that you want. The cheaper TCH units have only 2 harmony voices, but they have an additional 2 voices for doubling which can be in unison or an octave above and/ or an octave below. The VoiceLive 2 has 8 harmony voices so the scenario you mention would be easy with that one. I can't speak to Digitech because I don't know how many voices their units have. I once recorded a song with a TC Helicon Voiceprism Plus and did exactly what you just mentioned on a female Alto vocalist. With each verse or chorus we added another voice. It went just lead vocal then 3rd above, 5th below, 5th above and octave below (which was gender bent to sound quite male). Finally all voices together panned nicely in stereo. People thought they were overdubs and were astonished to find the whole thing was recorded in real-time, one take with no back-up singers! This would be a cinch to do live.

[Terry Allan Hall]

 

Originally Posted by DrFunky

Terry, You could accomplish that easily with any of the units we are discussing by making several presets in order , and pressing the program button to get to the next level that you want. The cheaper TCH units have only 2 harmony voices, but they have an additional 2 voices for doubling which can be in unison or an octave above and/ or an octave below. The VoiceLive 2 has 8 harmony voices so the scenario you mention would be easy with that one. I can't speak to Digitech because I don't know how many voices their units have. I once recorded a song with a TC Helicon Voiceprism Plus and did exactly what you just mentioned on a female Alto vocalist. With each verse or chorus we added another voice. It went just lead vocal then 3rd above, 5th below, 5th above and octave below (which was gender bent to sound quite male). Finally all voices together panned nicely in stereo. People thought they were overdubs and were astonished to find the whole thing was recorded in real-time, one take with no back-up singers! This would be a cinch to do live.

 

I'm looking for one that I wouldn't have to preset...one that, like the VL2 I already have, I can go from solo voice to harmonized vocal on the spot.

My gigs are largely "request-oriented", so the Digi VL2 is a good choice for me, but I'd like to, like the fellow I referred to, have the option to turning on, via footswitchs, whatever other harmony parts I want, on the fly.

May have to contact him and have him customize me a VL4 the way he customized his...just thought I'd see if anything like that was already on the market.

Thanks!

[n9ne]

Speaking of vocal processors....I've been having a rather odd issue, and I'm wondering if anyone else has ever seen this.

I have a Helicon HarmonyG and a Digitech Vocalist Live II. I much prefer the Helicon unit, because it sounds noticeably better and has a lot more features than the Digitech. Unfortunately, I've had several gigs where pluggin into the Helicon unit would produce a very noticeable hum, either in the PA or in my guitar amp, and the ground lift switch had little or no effect. Obviously this sounds like some kind of grounding issue.....but then I'd plug in the Digitech unit (using the same circuits) and the hum was gone.

Are the Helicon units just that much more sensitive to minor issues with grounding, dirty power, or low voltage issues? Or does it sound like maybe I just got a bad unit?

[DrFunky]

You're right that is what it seems to be. Be sure your cables are all good and that you are connecting XLR INs/ Outs to the PA so that you are certain have balanced cables to Balanced Ins & Outs. If you are using any 1/4 cable ends that would be the problem. Try the ground lift again if it persists and check to see if the unit has a phase switch which might help too. If you can;t get it under control go to TCHelicon.com/technical support.

Good Luck

Funky

[DrFunky]

Also Electro-Harmonixmakes a pedal for 60 cycle hum. if that does not work, use a noise gate. Do you have a guitar in your set up? That is usually the source of noise in the system. Be sure you are not connecting anywhere to the PA with 1/4" TS (unbalanced cables) on either side. Hum likes them!

[Bobby1Note]

Well, I just re-read this entire thread,,, several times,,,,checked out more links and videos,,, and all I can say so far,,, it's a tough call for someone like myself, who has never used one of these devices.

Questions regarding "ease of use";

1. When you're doing a show, or a set, do you have to fiddle around with twisting knobs and such?

2. With either of the VoiceLive Play units, do you ever find yourself using it table-mounted vs floor-mount,,, and why?

3. VoiceLive 2,,, and VoiceLive 2 Extreme,,, any significant difference in performance/price?

4. VoiceLive 2; is it possible to have the "choir" humming while you're singing the lyrics?

[steve mac]

in its most basic usage the voicelive play you simply hit the footswitch when you want harmonies and they arrive in tune ie no fiddling on the stage. Of course they have loads more features to play with i.e. how many voices, etc. but you can have these all set up prior to your live event. It took me a couple of hours before mine and that was just to have one standard preset. Now a couple of months later and I am still tinkering with different sounds for different songs. So in a nutshell as easy or as hard as you like.
I play mine on the ground and operate the harmony and the loop function with my feet. Others control it with a Midi and therefore it is more convenient at a higher level.
cheers steve

[Bobby1Note]

Here's another question;,,,,, can you sing a cappella with these units?

[DrFunky]

 

Originally Posted by Bobby1Note

Well, I just re-read this entire thread,,, several times,,,,checked out more links and videos,,, and all I can say so far,,, it's a tough call for someone like myself, who has never used one of these devices.

Questions regarding "ease of use";

1. When you're doing a show, or a set, do you have to fiddle around with twisting knobs and such?

2. With either of the VoiceLive Play units, do you ever find yourself using it table-mounted vs floor-mount,,, and why?

3. VoiceLive 2,,, and VoiceLive 2 Extreme,,, any significant difference in performance/price?

4. VoiceLive 2; is it possible to have the "choir" humming while you're singing the lyrics?

 

Bobby I recently got the VL Play GTX, and have been programming it intensely. As you probably know, the VL Play and Play GTX are exactly the same for the vocal aspect, but GTX has the additional Guitar/ MIDI Ins and of course, the guitar effects which are pretty decent for making an acoustic guitar preset which sounds good in performance. For electric guitar the amp sims and distortion are ok but not on the level that you can get from Line 6 or going into roaring amps with favored stompboxes. The GTX costs an additional~ $100. So if you want the vocal effects only Play is the way to go. If you want to accompany yourself w acoustic guitar the GTX is a terrific option all in one pedal. If you are playing electric in a band get the Play and go another route for your guitars. I use a Pod HD500 going into Line 6 Spider Valve MkII and DT 25 amps. They sound awesome.

What I can say to answer your questions that I am qualified to...You should not have to fiddle around with knobs and such while you are playing like the last person just told you. Everything should be pre-programmed in advance. There is a built - in mixer section which allows you to raise/ lower your lead vocals, harmony voices and guitar on the fly. You should be pretty close if you programmed correctly in the first place, but could always over-ride your settings in the mixer to adjust to a dif-ferent environment if you need to. Best would be to do a quick sound check before you perform.

Floor mount is best for me as everything is pre-programmed per song (you can also create a global preset if you just want to use 1 vocal preset/ and one guitar set-up). Both the Play and Play GTX have a "hit" button which allows you to add vocal effects during a song. For example: You have a preset with some reverb and maybe a touch of delay that you are using for verses. When you get to a chorus you could step on the "hit" button and bring in 2 harmonized voices and 1-2 unison or octave above/ below voices from the Doubling (Thickening) preset group. If you set things up right in advance it sounds really good, professional quality sound. If you sing decently, you might fall in "Love" with your own voice... As for placing it on a desk or a stand, if that was available to you. You could get at everything if you needed to make changes on the fly. This is why programming and preparing in advance is so important. TC Helicon also makes a microphone that has a button on it that can affect some features (like the "hit" button etc.) If you are singing only this might be a good choice. If you are playing an instrument forget about that. Their Switch 3 accessory pedal is only to simplify the looping functions if you choose to (for vocal/ and or guitar).

I can't speak to significant differences in VL 2 and Extreme. But if you go on the TC Helicon website, they have a new comparison tool and you can figure that out.

As far as VoiceLIve 2 being able to have the choir humming while you are sing Lyrics- Yep, quite possible. What I would do is set up a program for you normal voice, then go into the voice-looping function. Hum what you like with a preset choir function (you can just add it with a foot pedal). People are quite entertained by this if you do it right. So just practice and and get good with the looping function. On VL 2 you get 30- 60 seconds of looping depending how you set it up. VL Play and GTX give you 15-30 seconds of looping, and you don't get a choir, only the 2 harmony voices and also you could add the 2 unison or octave voices.

Hope this is helpful to you.

[Bobby1Note]

 

Originally Posted by DrFunky

Hope this is helpful to you.

 

It sure is DrFunky. You have no idea, of just how much I appreciate the info,,, from ALL of you guys. I'm narrowing this down, but it's still a VERY tough call. "Wanting" features is easy,,, as long as I can use them. I suppose there's a valid argument to be made for either one of their models.

BTW. I checked into the difference between the VL-2 and the VL-2 "Extreme", and it's looping time. 30/60/120 for the "Extreme",, vs 15/30/60 for the VL-2

[n9ne]

 

Originally Posted by Bobby1Note

Here's another question;,,,,, can you sing a cappella with these units?

 

Short answer: yes. Just a couple things to keep in mind.

In my experience, the unit will remember the last chord you played and create the harmony based on that chord. If you're changing keys, you'll probably want to give it the first chord before you start singing, just to make sure the harmony is correct.

If most of your harmonies are the garden variety major and minors (root-third-fifth), then it'll just follow the lead vocal, and stay in tune with your basic diatonic chord changes. But if it changes keys or uses any "outside" chords, then you might find yourself in a situation where you have to play the new chord so the harmonizer has something to follow.

That being said, my only experience is with the entry-level models that do a maximum of two voices. The more advanced units have a lot more bells and whistles....but adding all those extra voices might make it a bit trickier to navigate changes without input from an instrument.

However, worst case scenario: you could put a volume pedal or mute button on the instrument signal post-harmonizer but before it reaches the amp or PA; this would allow you to give the harmonizer the instrument feed it needs, but without amplifying that instrument signal through the PA.