Members GCDEF Posted August 8, 2003 Members Share Posted August 8, 2003 Originally posted by Audiopile Sir: I'd guess you missed my origional answer offered to the origional question.Furthermore, I agree, 10KW is possibly overkill for general club work, but no-so-more unwarranted than (quote): "marshall jcm2000dsl 50 watt tube head with 4x12 cab - ampeg svt4 pro head (i think it pushes between 400-600 with the settings its on) and ampeg svt8x10e cabinet (for bass of course) drummer plays hard and loud". I agree. That setup is way too much for typical club use also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Loves_LPs Posted August 9, 2003 Members Share Posted August 9, 2003 quote: ----------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Audiopile How much power (in your experience) is more than they want (and will use)? ------------------------------------------------------ ROFLMAO, wiping the tears from my eyes! God, this is SO true! While I sometimes may not LIKE what I hear from Audiopile, I am well advised to listen when he, and others, such as AgedHorse, say something. I have learned that he is invariably correct. Not only does he have 30-odd years of sound reinforcement experience, but he is a particularly wise individual in general. Sometimes reality sucks - but it is still reality, and must be dealt with on its own terms. This is not to say that someone can't maybe "get by" with less than is recommended. However, you won't have optimal sound, and in the long run, it would be cheaper to bite the bullet, and get something decent. Some of us have to make compromises with what we would like to do. So we use a less than adequate system until we can afford better. BUT, we should do so knowing that we are sacrificing the quality of our overall sound, and wasting at least a part of our initial investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xonik Posted August 11, 2003 Members Share Posted August 11, 2003 Originally posted by Audiopile I guess I missed that. How come it is that I've been playing professionally for 30+ years and I still very rarely play a club or venue that provides anything you could actually call "a system". Oh, sure... there's some clubs around here that have a couple of Audio Centrons or some such thing haywired up in the corners of "the stage" and a Tapco board and maybe a DC-300A that still works on one side... but a real PA? Nope... What is a REAL PA? could you give me examples...I'm learning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 11, 2003 Members Share Posted August 11, 2003 Originally posted by Audiopile Andy:Have you ever provided SR for a modern rock band in a medium sized venue with Marshall stacks, SVT bass rig, and a power drummer that didn't use every inch of rope you provided?How much power (in your experience) is more than they want (and will use)? Absolutely I 100% agree with what you are saying. It doesn't matter how much power you have, some bands ALWAYS want more! I steer clear of the hard core, modern rock, thrash, metal, rap/hip-hop and head-banger stuff. I specialized in providing for Jazz, folk rock, world music (Afro-Cuban, South and Central American, Brazilian etc) and older rock and R&B. That's how I can do a 2500 seat hall with a 15k system, plus the speakers are about 104dB/1w/1m which when compared to the average 98dB/1w/1m system would be the equivalent of 60kW. Some examples of the types of shows that we would do regularly (while they were alive of course) are: Buena Vista Social Club, Etta James, Koko Taylor, Afro-Cuban Allstars, Youngbloods (JCY), Cake, Debbie Reynolds, John Lee Hooker, Muddy Waters, Cab Calloway, Count Bassie, Winton and Branford Marsalis, Norton Buffalo, Country Joe and the Fish, David Grisman Quintet, Egor and the Jazz Cowboys, Peter Paul and Mary, Waylon Jennings, Kate Wolf etc. Our system had plenty of headroom to achieve 110+ at the mix position. Any louder and the audiences would riot. Sometimes the engineer would question things, but once they heard the system they were happy. We could picked up some tour work, but by that time we had decided to get off the road. It's all in the numbers and how you can make them work for you rather than against you. The entire package, including 8ea 3 way line array boxes, 2 - 218 subs, amp racks, power distro, 32x8x250' rack mount transformer isolated splitter system, work box, all cables (we carry about 75 x 25' mic cables for instance), FOH drive rack, processing rack, console, monitor console, 12 mixes worth of eq's, amps, comps, gates, effects, and 12 bi-amped wedges/side fills/drum fill fits into a 14' heavy duty trailer and weighs about 5000 lbs. Takes us 1 hour and 15 minutes to be all set up and eq'ed. Takes us 1 hour MAX to be all loaded up atthe end of the night. Granted it does help that we generally work real venues with a loading dock and real crew. The line array boxes are crossed over to the subs at 80Hz, so the power bandwidth of the subs ir really adequate. Again it helps that the sub boxes are 103dB/1w/1m all the way down to about 30Hz. This is the only way I have found to make good money in this business. Clean and efficient. The happiest day of my life was the day I sold my big truck... I was an idiot for hanging on to it for as long as I did. If I did "butt-head" bands (meaning screaming loud, hard rock/thrash etc as I described above) than I would be royally screwed. I didn't try to do it all, just what I could make a living with. Know your limits (and system limits) and you will be much happier and so will everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted August 11, 2003 Members Share Posted August 11, 2003 Originally posted by xonik What is a REAL PA? could you give me examples...I'm learning What would your idea of a real PA be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 11, 2003 Members Share Posted August 11, 2003 Leftover Salmon's a great act... not terribly well known outside of the pacific northwest unfortunately. The B tour stuff you listed is pretty much the same as I see down here too. The "has been" or "still breathing and beating" circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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