Members Roadkill Posted November 24, 2003 Members Share Posted November 24, 2003 Originally posted by tlbonehead But not in a band-pass box. It essentially kills anything over 150-200 hz because all your sound is coming out of the vents. Oh yah - in case it wasn't clear, everything I said after my initial "if they are bandpass yur screwed without top boxes" is based on them NOT being bandpass. Certainly if they are bandpass you HAVE TO get top boxes and either leave the coils in them or go biamp with an active crossover. Without top boxes Bandpass cabs just put out mud. The unclear part is it sounds like the speakers are mounted on the top surface of the cab and not in an inner baffle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 24, 2003 Members Share Posted November 24, 2003 Sorry, looks like both bonehead and I missed your first comment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted November 24, 2003 Members Share Posted November 24, 2003 Originally posted by Roadkill Oh yah - in case it wasn't clear, everything I said after my initial "if they are bandpass yur screwed without top boxes" is based on them NOT being bandpass. Certainly if they are bandpass you HAVE TO get top boxes and either leave the coils in them or go biamp with an active crossover. Without top boxes Bandpass cabs just put out mud. The unclear part is it sounds like the speakers are mounted on the top surface of the cab and not in an inner baffle? Ya,I was just going by this later post where you said that ditching the coils would give a lot more slap to the kick. Anyway,as the boxes are described,it sounds like they are mounted in the top compartment firing down into the bottom one,which is where the vents are located. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BBJones Posted November 24, 2003 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2003 Originally posted by tlbonehead Ya,I was just going by this later post where you said that ditching the coils would give a lot more slap to the kick. Anyway,as the boxes are described,it sounds like they are mounted in the top compartment firing down into the bottom one,which is where the vents are located. That is correct. The top compartment has 2 sides closed, 2 open (front and back). The bottom compartment is closed on all sides apart from the 2 holes facing front. Speaker points straight down from the top compartment.So bandpass for sure then right? Sounds like nobody likes this idea of a cabinet providing the bandpass effect. Should I then be planning on getting new cabs at some point no matter how I want to use these cabs/speakers? Or would they still be fine in a full PA? Assuming the cabs were well built of course...Can anyone else please confirm that I can feel fine to clip the hell out of my mixer and amp if it is just kick drum? (even super fast kick drum to the point it is almost a steady signal?) Not that I don't trust anyone here, I would just like to know a bit more about the limitations and possibilities of the gear I have and how I intend to use it.Regarding the coils that are inside the speaker cab... should I leave them in then? Or can I bypass them and wire direct from the speaker input to the speaker terminals and just let the cabinet design do all the work? Any difference either way?Thanks again for all the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted November 25, 2003 Members Share Posted November 25, 2003 If the bass was "huge" as you say, when putting your bass head through it, then NO. There's no sense dickin' around with something you know little about. Those coils are not what's messing things up. Throwing 800W of a full range signal (clipping no less) is not gonna help. As far as will the subs work. The answer is, probably. The design isn't the most popular, but there are a few that do it. (EV Eliminator comes to mind). If you are getting little volume out of something being driven by 800W, the speaker is not the issue. Once you've figured out the problem in the signal chain and you are getting volume, you really need to beg or borrow or buy a top box an run a CD through it (with a proper crossover) and see how it sounds. As far as clipping. A bit of clip on the bass beats is generally OK. Constant red light is not. Again, 800W into something 1/2 way decent with the signal chain gain structure set up properly will shake the pictures off the wall if you are just messing around at home, and you won't need to clip anything to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roadkill Posted November 25, 2003 Members Share Posted November 25, 2003 Originally posted by BBJones The top compartment has 2 sides closed, 2 open (front and back). The bottom compartment is closed on all sides apart from the 2 holes facing front. Speaker points straight down from the top compartment. So bandpass for sure then right? From that I don't know what the hell it is. A bandpass would have the top compartment completely sealed. Those are decent drivers, I think they would be much happier in a new home. Actually re-reading the size of the ports in your first post there is no way that cab is tuned and you will be overexcursioning the driver and it will break sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted November 25, 2003 Members Share Posted November 25, 2003 Originally posted by Roadkill From that I don't know what the hell it is. A bandpass would have the top compartment completely sealed. Those are decent drivers, I think they would be much happier in a new home. Actually re-reading the size of the ports in your first post there is no way that cab is tuned and you will be overexcursioning the driver and it will break sooner or later. I was thinking the exact thing when I read that last post. Either it is being explained wrong,or they are some really oddball things that don't look like they could be even remotely tuned. There is such a thing as an actual vented band-pass box(where the woofer is also vented besides firing into another vented chamber,but it doesn't sound like that either. It might be cool to see an actual pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roadkill Posted November 25, 2003 Members Share Posted November 25, 2003 Yah dude, where you at? Maybe one of us can stop by and check these out. I've "saved" worse cabs - I think Just a thought - cover up them two 8" holes and see if it sounds better? If so I can have you measure the cabs up more precisely and tell you what ports they really need. You can then cover over the old ones and put the new ones in the centers of the old ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 25, 2003 Members Share Posted November 25, 2003 There are all kinds of hybrid cabinets out there, some (a few) work very well (generally designed by those who have real engineering design skills) and there's a ton of bizarre junk that was designed by "goofballs". If you are going to try something "odd", then be sure that you are buying from a manufacturer with a track record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RickJ Posted November 25, 2003 Members Share Posted November 25, 2003 The other thing to consider is the "thump" of a kick drum comes from the subs, but all of the definition of a kick drum in a mix comes from hi-mids that are well outside the range of your cabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 25, 2003 Members Share Posted November 25, 2003 Originally posted by RickJ The other thing to consider is the "thump" of a kick drum comes from the subs, but all of the definition of a kick drum in a mix comes from hi-mids that are well outside the range of your cabs. Excellent point! Worth remembering when mixing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BBJones Posted November 25, 2003 Author Members Share Posted November 25, 2003 Thanks for all of the good replies I will get some pictures including proper measurements and start a new thread. Hopefully by this weekend.I've returned the AP800 amp (I rented it) so I'm powerless anyways for a while.I do have 2 crappy 4x12 PA columns including a 250w Peavey 6 channel PA head that I'll throw into the mix to add some mid...Anyways, thanks for now. I'll bug you all again when I get more info about my stuff Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RickJ Posted November 26, 2003 Members Share Posted November 26, 2003 Originally posted by agedhorse Excellent point! Worth remembering when mixing too. Especially metal acts. They even like to put the horns to work on the kick. Go figure ... 4-band kick strip EQ of the last headlining metal-band BE that came through: +15dB @ 10k (shelving). +12dB hi-mid sweep @ 4k-ish. -18dB (buried) @ 200-ish lo-mid sweep. +4dB low shelf (100Hz) Plus channel-patched gate and comp. Comp was 7:1, threshold -15, 5ms attack, 25ms release, +10 boost at the output. Beta 52, which is a crisp mic to begin with ... I'm hearing "tick, tick, tick" as I watch the sub amps barely move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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