Members smitty0069 Posted February 17, 2004 Members Share Posted February 17, 2004 Hey guys,.....I'm getting back together w/ some old bandmates that I had not played w/ some in years. Long story short is we have some p.a. equipment that we purchased together years ago that has been sitting for years & we would like to add some stuff to it & use most of what we had.We have some JBL 4560A cabs that are loaded w/ JBL E-130-8 speakers.I need to know what these speakers are rated at for pwr.( I can't seem to find the info on the JBL site for some reason) & where to "X" them over at w/ my Altec 292-8a horns.I'm thinking 800hz per JBL web site, but if you guys have some other thoughts it would be greatly appreciated.Unfortunately for you guys I'm not done,..........I also need to know what the Altecs handle for pwr.?Still not done ! Our sub situation is this,........Audio Centron AC-18 cabs( I know,I know) loaded w/ Black Widow's that I can not seem to find info on as well.The #'s on the cone say #76010002, & the serial # of one is # 213840.If any of you could give me some info on these items or where to find this info I really appreciate it.I've been to the web sites of all except the Altec's w/ no luck,.......which is probably just me.Our pwr. amp situation is an A/B 1100a, & an old CS800 that I'm thinking can work for our Dr. Fong monitors for now until the whole monitor system can be upgraded.I'm thinking of a QSC RMX amp for the FOH.Model # will depend on what we have for drivers currently,& what you guys recomend based upon this.I'm also wandering what "X-over "you guys would recommend for this setup.I realize this is a long winded thread & I may be leaving out some info that you might need so,...............let me know.Any help is greatly appreciated & thanks for your time,Smitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted February 17, 2004 Members Share Posted February 17, 2004 Originally posted by smitty0069 Hey guys,.....I'm getting back together w/ some old bandmates that I had not played w/ some in years. Long story short is we have some p.a. equipment that we purchased together years ago that has been sitting for years & we would like to add some stuff to it & use most of what we had.We have some JBL 4560A cabs that are loaded w/ JBL E-130-8 speakers.I need to know what these speakers are rated at for pwr.( I can't seem to find the info on the JBL site for some reason) & where to "X" them over at w/ my Altec 292-8a horns.I'm thinking 800hz per JBL web site, but if you guys have some other thoughts it would be greatly appreciated.Unfortunately for you guys I'm not done,..........I also need to know what the Altecs handle for pwr.?Still not done ! Our sub situation is this,........Audio Centron AC-18 cabs( I know,I know) loaded w/ Black Widow's that I can not seem to find info on as well.The #'s on the cone say #76010002, & the serial # of one is # 213840.If any of you could give me some info on these items or where to find this info I really appreciate it.I've been to the web sites of all except the Altec's w/ no luck,.......which is probably just me.Our pwr. amp situation is an A/B 1100a, & an old CS800 that I'm thinking can work for our Dr. Fong monitors for now until the whole monitor system can be upgraded.I'm thinking of a QSC RMX amp for the FOH.Model # will depend on what we have for drivers currently,& what you guys recomend based upon this.I'm also wandering what "X-over "you guys would recommend for this setup.I realize this is a long winded thread & I may be leaving out some info that you might need so,...............let me know.Any help is greatly appreciated & thanks for your time,Smitty Well,most Black Widows have been rated at 350 watts RMS,provided the cab porting is not too far off. The rest,I really don't know. I think the E-130's are probably rated at 200-250 watts,back when ratings seemed more honest. BTW,the 4560,is that the big 36x30x24 horn loaded single 15" cab? As for crossover frequency,I'd be very tempted to replace the high frequency driver,unless there is something special about it. I'm sure Andy and Mark know tons more about them. Are they a cloth or phenolic diaphragm,or something metallic? I'd recommend a crossover higher than 800 hz personally,but if those drivers are really old,they probably lose their steam at about 5k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members smitty0069 Posted February 17, 2004 Author Members Share Posted February 17, 2004 Originally posted by tlbonehead Well,most Black Widows have been rated at 350 watts RMS,provided the cab porting is not too far off. The rest,I really don't know. I think the E-130's are probably rated at 200-250 watts,back when ratings seemed more honest. BTW,the 4560,is that the big 36x30x24 horn loaded single 15" cab? As for crossover frequency,I'd be very tempted to replace the high frequency driver,unless there is something special about it. I'm sure Andy and Mark know tons more about them. Are they a cloth or phenolic diaphragm,or something metallic? I'd recommend a crossover higher than 800 hz personally,but if those drivers are really old,they probably lose their steam at about 5k. Yeah that's the right JBL's.As far as the Altec's I know absolutely nothing about them.Back in the day we had a soundman that ran all this for us,unfortunately he lost a long battle to cancer recently.We are just trying to figure out exactly what we have at this point.This system was replaced by a yorkville system shortly after we got going that we used for a # of years before we split up & I really don't remember much about this system.The old AC subs say 4ohm on them,but I'm guessing that the BW's are rated at 8.If anyone knows or can tell from the #'s I've given it would be greatly appreciated.Wish I would have known enough in the day to pay attention to this stuff.Thanks alot for the input. Smitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted February 17, 2004 Members Share Posted February 17, 2004 The BW's have always been available as 4 or 8 ohms. Isn't there a sticker or something with the model number on it? Should be 1801-04 or 08(which is the impedence,I believe. BTW,those cabs with the E-130's in them should be good out to around 2000hz. I would just sweep the crossover frequency around in the 1000-2000 range and see what sounds best. Higher should sound less honky,IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members smitty0069 Posted February 17, 2004 Author Members Share Posted February 17, 2004 Originally posted by tlbonehead The BW's have always been available as 4 or 8 ohms. Isn't there a sticker or something with the model number on it? Should be 1801-04 or 08(which is the impedence,I believe. BTW,those cabs with the E-130's in them should be good out to around 2000hz. I would just sweep the crossover frequency around in the 1000-2000 range and see what sounds best. Higher should sound less honky,IMO. Unfortunately there was nothing on the BW speakers other than what I mentioned in the thread.Maybe I need to go back over to the storage area & check again,but I'm 99.9% positive that was it.Thanks for the info on the x-over point.I don't think I was even looking at the 4560 model when I read that Or it could be that I don't know what I'm talking about.Any idea on how to "X" referance the serial # of the BW's to see what they are?Thanks again,Smitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted February 17, 2004 Members Share Posted February 17, 2004 Originally posted by smitty0069 Unfortunately there was nothing on the BW speakers other than what I mentioned in the thread.Maybe I need to go back over to the storage area & check again,but I'm 99.9% positive that was it.Thanks for the info on the x-over point.I don't think I was even looking at the 4560 model when I read that Or it could be that I don't know what I'm talking about.Any idea on how to "X" referance the serial # of the BW's to see what they are?Thanks again,Smitty I would just find a meter and test their resistance. That might be easiest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 17, 2004 Members Share Posted February 17, 2004 The D-130F was rated at about 125 watts RMS, and was very efficient because there was very little voice coil overhang, and a light stiff cone/suspension. The drawback to this is very poor low frequency response. These are very commonly blown up since people assume that they handle higher power than they actually do. Also, there are a large number of really terrible recones out there. When I recone those drivers, I use the newer Kapton based voice coil assys and a slightly longer winding height and parts more like a 2220A. It's a great driver, and will operate well on those big horns. The Altec horn-driver combo should be crossed over between 800 and 1200 Hz, they are designed for high efficiency down that low (500 actually, but I wouldn't recommend) and are constructed with a phenolic diaphram. HF performance is not stellar, but probably acceptable. They handle about 75 watts RMS and are 2" exit. A crossover frequency of 1000Hz and 24dB/octave should be pretty good to starty with. The BW's should be powered with no more than 400 watts into whatever impedance they are. Some drivers had a problem with deterioration of the internal foam vent filter... which gets bound up into the VC gap. You may want to (very carefully) disassemble the basket from magner and be sure to clean any bits of old melted foam from all areas. The AB-1100 is a great amp, was designed by an old friend of mine and was one of the earliest successful class H amplifier designs. I had a dozen of them at one time, never had one fail on me... though I have services a few owned by customers. The CS-800 is "classic", a known quantity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted February 17, 2004 Members Share Posted February 17, 2004 Originally posted by agedhorse The D-130F was rated at about 125 watts RMS, and was very efficient because there was very little voice coil overhang, and a light stiff cone/suspension. The drawback to this is very poor low frequency response. These are very commonly blown up since people assume that they handle higher power than they actually do. Also, there are a large number of really terrible recones out there. When I recone those drivers, I use the newer Kapton based voice coil assys and a slightly longer winding height and parts more like a 2220A. It's a great driver, and will operate well on those big horns.The Altec horn-driver combo should be crossed over between 800 and 1200 Hz, they are designed for high efficiency down that low (500 actually, but I wouldn't recommend) and are constructed with a phenolic diaphram. HF performance is not stellar, but probably acceptable. They handle about 75 watts RMS and are 2" exit. A crossover frequency of 1000Hz and 24dB/octave should be pretty good to starty with.The BW's should be powered with no more than 400 watts into whatever impedance they are. Some drivers had a problem with deterioration of the internal foam vent filter... which gets bound up into the VC gap. You may want to (very carefully) disassemble the basket from magner and be sure to clean any bits of old melted foam from all areas.The AB-1100 is a great amp, was designed by an old friend of mine and was one of the earliest successful class H amplifier designs. I had a dozen of them at one time, never had one fail on me... though I have services a few owned by customers.The CS-800 is "classic", a known quantity. I believe he said it was an E,not a D-130. Are they rated higher? Is the E-series a ceramic magnet design? Also,about where do those Altecs start dying out? I'm guessing you could have a decent sounding full-range system if you added a decent 1" titanium driver/lens rolling in around 5k or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 17, 2004 Members Share Posted February 17, 2004 Oops, that was an "E" not a "D". Just like Sesame Street... The E is rated at higher power, but not that much in actuality since the voice coil overhang is still quite short. It is a ceramic magnet and shares the same metalwork as the 2225. I would guess about 250 watts RMS, but you have about a 2 or 3dB efficiency gain over typical competition so the SPL nets out similar. The 290 series Altec driver starts rolling off -3dB about 7 or 8k, down about 10dB at about 12k. Wait till you price a replacement diaphram! Yowza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members smitty0069 Posted February 17, 2004 Author Members Share Posted February 17, 2004 Thanks "tlbonehead' & "agedhorse". Your input is greatly appreciated! Any recommendations on the titanium driver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted February 18, 2004 Members Share Posted February 18, 2004 Originally posted by smitty0069 Thanks "tlbonehead' & "agedhorse". Your input is greatly appreciated! Any recommendations on the titanium driver? To replace the Altec,or to add on top of it frequency-wise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members smitty0069 Posted February 18, 2004 Author Members Share Posted February 18, 2004 Originally posted by tlbonehead To replace the Altec,or to add on top of it frequency-wise? I'm thinking to replace it. What would be your recommendation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 18, 2004 Members Share Posted February 18, 2004 I would listen to the Altec first before assuming you need to replace. Even though the HF rolls off, it's still a good driver and does not sound bad at all, just lacks the sizzle a bit... but makes up for it with the extra beef all across the mid band that would be expensive to achieve in other ways since you already have the 291's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members smitty0069 Posted February 18, 2004 Author Members Share Posted February 18, 2004 Originally posted by agedhorse I would listen to the Altec first before assuming you need to replace. Even though the HF rolls off, it's still a good driver and does not sound bad at all, just lacks the sizzle a bit... but makes up for it with the extra beef all across the mid band that would be expensive to achieve in other ways since you already have the 291's Thanks agedhorse.I'll give them a try & go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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