Members Keith2 Posted August 12, 2004 Members Share Posted August 12, 2004 A little background...I am the drummer in a 6 peice C.R. band and I do the sound setup, and then turn things over to our sound guy. Our keyboard player uses 2 keyboards ran through DI's into the board and also into his amp. NOW,we mike the guitarist amp for the sound... you know the drill,the bass amp is DI'd to the board (still turns up to loud) but uses his rig as his monitor.The dilema is that the keyboard player wants his keys up loud in the monitor. Am I wrong in assuming that if he is running his amp that this should be his main source of monitor and he should not be as loud in the mon. mix. (Due to lack of amps, I'm only running 2 mixes right now) And if we pump him through the monitors, shouldn't he leave his amp at home? On a side note, how many of you with keyboard players have the keyboard player stand up to play; or sit down? Thanks,Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B. Adams Posted August 12, 2004 Members Share Posted August 12, 2004 I've never actually played with a keyboard player, but generally the amp can be used as a monitor. But I'd only recommend this if it's facing away from the audience. But if he's keeping his amp at a reasonable level, there should be nothing wrong with turning up his monitor a little. If you don't want to do that, turn it away from the audience, and tilt it up towards his face, and he can use that as a monitor. Most players want a real amp there, whether it matters or not. Trying to make him use just the monitor will probably have negative effects. He might think it "sounds weird," but it's probably just better quality sound than he's used to. Plus, if the PA goes out, you can use the keyboard amp as a powered mixer. Another thing. I regularly work with a bass player that would always turn up too loud. Then I decided to make him use one of my tilt back amp stands, elevated on a road case, facing his head. It ends up being about 3' from his ears. Now it's more than loud enough for him, and more than quiet enough for me. I love tilt back amp stands. I carry a couple of my own when I do sound, because most people don't have them, and they help so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted August 12, 2004 Members Share Posted August 12, 2004 Originally posted by Keith2 A little background...I am the drummer in a 6 peice C.R. band and I do the sound setup, and then turn things over to our sound guy. Our keyboard player uses 2 keyboards ran through DI's into the board and also into his amp. NOW,we mike the guitarist amp for the sound... you know the drill,the bass amp is DI'd to the board (still turns up to loud) but uses his rig as his monitor.The dilema is that the keyboard player wants his keys up loud in the monitor. Am I wrong in assuming that if he is running his amp that this should be his main source of monitor and he should not be as loud in the mon. mix. (Due to lack of amps, I'm only running 2 mixes right now) And if we pump him through the monitors, shouldn't he leave his amp at home? On a side note, how many of you with keyboard players have the keyboard player stand up to play; or sit down?Thanks,Keith I too have a key player who wants his volume up way too loud. He has his own mix, but always asks for more. He has now blown 2- 12" speakers. More accurately, and more honestly, I have blown them due to turning him up too much. THe low end out of the keys are too much for those little mons.I think that it's time to get him into IEMs. THis way he can get the sound he needs, as loud as he needs it, without blowing the other musos away all night. He will need wireless because he operates with a keytar, as well as a stationary keyboard. I guess he stands all night. Mostly he's all over the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted August 12, 2004 Members Share Posted August 12, 2004 Originally posted by Keith2 Am I wrong in assuming that if he is running his amp that this should be his main source of monitor and he should not be as loud in the mon. On a side note, how many of you with keyboard players have the keyboard player stand up to play; or sit down?Thanks,Keith Our keyboard player has his amp under his keyboard stand, and that is his main source for hearing himself. He plays standing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Aunt Flo Posted August 18, 2004 Members Share Posted August 18, 2004 I'm a keyboardist in a 5-piece band. Lead vocals/acoustic guitar, lead guitar, bass, keyboards/rhythm guitar, and drummer (everyone also sings backup). Our monitor set-up is: 1. Acoustic guitar is DI to the board, monitors only for stage volume2. Lead guitar is mic'd to board, stage amp and monitors for stage volume3. Bass guitar is DI to the board, stage amp for stage volume4. Rhythm guitar is DI to board, stage amp and monitors for stage volume5. Keyboard is DI to board, monitors only for stage volume We have two monitor mixes: front line and back line. The drummer and I share the back monitor mix. We bring the kick and his vocals up to make him happy and my keys and vocals up to make me happy. It works quite well. If your keyboard player has an amp on stage facing him (either in front or behind), that should be his primary sound source for stage volume. There should be a little keys in the monitors so everyone else can hear it, but it shouldn't be prominent in the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madjack Posted August 18, 2004 Members Share Posted August 18, 2004 I'm a keyboard/guitarist in a 5-piece cover band. I have my keys into a small mixer, which is straight to FOH with a second send into a stage monitor, not for me but for the other guys, as I use in-ears. They have control over the stage monitor volume, which works well. I play sitting mostly, as I use multiple pedals to fade sounds in and out, and often need one foot on the piano sustain, and one on the organ swell pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kennykeys Posted August 20, 2004 Members Share Posted August 20, 2004 It's common for the guitarist to have an amp because it is usually integral to his sound. It's common for a bass to have an amp because you need something a bit bigger than a 12" mon to convey the proper bass guitar sound and volume to the player. It's often common for a keyboard to have no amp and just rely on the monitors because his sound needs a full-range, no distortion reproduction system. Why bother with a full-range keyboard amp, when the monitor is already there? Of course, playing without a dedicated stage amp, you'll need a separate monitor mix for the keys. .Standing up, although my left leg does get tired of constantly supporting all my weight while the right foot is glued to the B3 expression pedal. On slower "lounge" gigs, I'll pull over a bar stool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MRkeys Posted August 22, 2004 Members Share Posted August 22, 2004 If he has his own amp and still needs to be hot in the monitors it makes me wonder what kind of amp he has and what kind of stage volume he is up against. I have a pair of 15's+horn that I can stack with a powered head that I use if I have to be stuck next to a big guitar amp with the master turned to 11:rolleyes: I play standing up and have the guitarist play sitting down:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted August 23, 2004 Members Share Posted August 23, 2004 I play in synths/guitar in a 5 piece 80's tribute band (Bon Jovi, Van Halen, Devo, Prince). I run my keys (Korg Triton, Roland XP30, and Korg MS2000) into a small Yamaha 10 channel mixer. I run stereo out to our full range PA, and aux out to a full range Samson power PA speaker. The Samson is sooooo overkill for our gigs (small bars and clubs) however for the price I paid I couldn't refuse. It sounds great. As a result I DO NOT run my signal into the monitors. Prior to me using this setup, I ran my keys through the monitors with disasterous results. The monitors couldn't handle the bass response and would constant break up. It just sounded like {censored} and pissed everyone else off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted August 23, 2004 Members Share Posted August 23, 2004 Originally posted by wheresgrant3 ~snip~ As a result I DO NOT run my signal into the monitors. Prior to me using this setup, I ran my keys through the monitors with disasterous results. The monitors couldn't handle the bass response and would constant break up. It just sounded like {censored} and pissed everyone else off. This is exactly the same thing that has been happening to my keyboardist. The monitor (12") has blown in two different monitors. I finally got a huge powered speaker for one of them. Now the monitor can handle it. That low end stuff is deadly on lower powered speakers. Dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 24, 2004 Members Share Posted August 24, 2004 If you were to use a high quality professional monitor and hgh passed it around 60Hz, then you wouldn't be experiencing these difficulties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madjack Posted August 24, 2004 Members Share Posted August 24, 2004 Originally posted by madjack I'm a keyboard/guitarist in a 5-piece cover band. I have my keys into a small mixer, which is straight to FOH with a second send into a stage monitor, not for me but for the other guys, as I use in-ears. They have control over the stage monitor volume, which works well. I play sitting mostly, as I use multiple pedals to fade sounds in and out, and often need one foot on the piano sustain, and one on the organ swell pedals. I neglected to mention that the monitor is an EV 200SX; the mixer is a Kawai stereo 8 channel keyboard mixer, and the amp driving the EV is a QSC 1450. Decent gear makes a real difference. I have to use the 1/4" outs from the mixer for the FOH as that mixer is a Behringer which really can't handle the +4 balanced outputs. (The Behringer isn't mine; it belongs to the club. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tobes Posted August 24, 2004 Members Share Posted August 24, 2004 I'm a keyboard player, not using an amp, running all my boards in stereo to the stereo inputs on my board, then to FOH. I put them into our monitor mix and tend to lose a lot of the sound from them on stage. I wonder if I am experiencing a lot of phase cancellation, being that I believe the aug outs are mono right?Do boards generally do a good or bad job mono summing the stereo stuff for the aux outs? Are some boards better at this than others? No time to sit down for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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