Members zuul777 Posted October 25, 2004 Members Share Posted October 25, 2004 i know i shouldnt be talking about this on here, but has anyone used the B Feedback destroyer pro?is it not the MOST HORRIBLE PILE OF CRAP ever?or has somebody got it to work well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve_B Posted October 25, 2004 Members Share Posted October 25, 2004 Can you be a bit more specific in why you think that it is the MOST HORRIBLE PILE OF CRAP ever? I have two of the early Feedback destroyers and apart from a little digital noise, that is not really noticeable in the average live music venue, I have found them to work quite well. Any parametric type filter is more difficult to use compared to a graphic, but that does not mean that the filter is bad. The Feedback Destroyer requires a lot of button pressing and wheel turning to get the best use from it. Expecting to achieve good results by leaving all filters on automatic is in my opinion unrealistic. You also need to read the manual thoroughly. I have spoken to people who didn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kennykeys Posted October 25, 2004 Members Share Posted October 25, 2004 re: Behringer Feedback Destroyer Not necessarily "the most horrible pile"......Try preset #2 (IINM).... the one where you lock in about 2 or 3 frequencies, then it leaves 2 or 3 "roamers." No more that that..Those who have used these things have much higher recommendations for the Peavey Feedback Ferret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 26, 2004 Members Share Posted October 26, 2004 User hostile... Don't bump the jog wheel accidently or you can lose all your settings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Audioeast Posted October 26, 2004 Members Share Posted October 26, 2004 went to a PAT Brown talk a couple weeks ago (dsp and design guy)and he made a really funny comment ........ "feedback destroyers are like curing poison ivy with surgery" feedback is an problem that can be fixed by moving the speaker, the mic or by butchering a freq on an EQ (digital or analog it really make no difference no matter what you nickname it) IMO the Behringer peice in question is just that......a peice:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zuul777 Posted October 26, 2004 Author Members Share Posted October 26, 2004 behringer advertises the thing to be quite fully automatic and stuff. the roamer filters as far as i've used them are nearly useless.yes, when properly manually adjust the parametric EQ yourself, you can get it to do what you need it to do.i just wanted to use one of these in my monitors mixes to be able to get the levels a bit higher when i needed to, but this thing turned out to be innacurate. to get it working i needed to cause quite a bit of feedback, and still notched out some frequencies that 1. didnt matter and 2. made the monitor sound badnot much of a serious thread, more of a venting.i've used the peavy before and did not hate it (although not automatic either) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kennykeys Posted October 26, 2004 Members Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by zuul777 behringer advertises the thing to be quite fully automatic and stuff........ The hyperbole of MI manufacturers' Marketing Depts just might be the fastest expanding feature of the industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Angry Jonny Posted October 26, 2004 Members Share Posted October 26, 2004 I bought a Behringer Ultra-curve (the new DEQ2496) for our church's monitor mixes. I got everything EQ'd and setup the FBD so that 8 filters were fixed and 4 were roaming. Rang out the 8 fixed filters and stored everything. Everything went great for awhile but after a few months I started getting reports from our bass players that they were losing themselves in the monitor. They would get the monitor mix where they liked it, play for awhile and then suddenly no bass. At first we thought it was something like a bad snake channel or bad channel at the board so we tried moving things around and I stopped getting complaints from the other guys. However, about that time I started playing bass for the church's new Sat. night band and noticed that certain notes seemed to be much quieter than others. This typically happened when I was using my A string so I figured I just had pickups that weren't setup correctly so I treated it as a nuisance and nothing more. A few weeks go by and then one Sunday I'm on sound and a little bored during the message so I start poking around in all of my settings. When I happen to bring up the FBD filters for the channel that had the bass in it everything finally clicked. While my roaming filters hit virtually nothing in the other monitor, in the bass mix I found all 4 filters in use taking deep cuts out of low frequency. The FBD was picking up those nice clean sine waves from the bass and knocking them out as feedback. Life has been much better since I turned off the roaming filters on the bass's monitor mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members picker13 Posted October 26, 2004 Members Share Posted October 26, 2004 I have used one in the past, but no longer need one due to experience at mic and monitor placement as well as EQ settings. While I felt that it worked, to my ears it did make the monitor mixes sound off, due to the frequencies that were being cut. Didn't our old friend bassknave use them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zuul777 Posted October 26, 2004 Author Members Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by Angry Jonny I bought a Behringer Ultra-curve (the new DEQ2496) for our church's monitor mixes. I got everything EQ'd and setup the FBD so that 8 filters were fixed and 4 were roaming. Rang out the 8 fixed filters and stored everything. Everything went great for awhile but after a few months I started getting reports from our bass players that they were losing themselves in the monitor. They would get the monitor mix where they liked it, play for awhile and then suddenly no bass. At first we thought it was something like a bad snake channel or bad channel at the board so we tried moving things around and I stopped getting complaints from the other guys. However, about that time I started playing bass for the church's new Sat. night band and noticed that certain notes seemed to be much quieter than others. This typically happened when I was using my A string so I figured I just had pickups that weren't setup correctly so I treated it as a nuisance and nothing more. A few weeks go by and then one Sunday I'm on sound and a little bored during the message so I start poking around in all of my settings. When I happen to bring up the FBD filters for the channel that had the bass in it everything finally clicked. While my roaming filters hit virtually nothing in the other monitor, in the bass mix I found all 4 filters in use taking deep cuts out of low frequency. The FBD was picking up those nice clean sine waves from the bass and knocking them out as feedback. Life has been much better since I turned off the roaming filters on the bass's monitor mix. yeah it was cutting out huge sections of bass out of one of our channels. likewise, we also troubleshooted everything else possible before considering this, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J. Posted October 26, 2004 Members Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by picker13 Didn't our old friend bassknave use them? Yeah, he used to use a couple of 'em if I recall. Hopefully he pop in soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kennykeys Posted October 27, 2004 Members Share Posted October 27, 2004 Originally posted by Angry Jonny ......and then one Sunday I'm a little bored during the message ......: That's the same effect it always had on me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nighthawkdude Posted October 27, 2004 Members Share Posted October 27, 2004 I'm kinda confused why anybody would apply a feedback suppressor to a channel with a bass. I've been playing live for 30 years and I've never had a problem with a bass feeding back. Feedback suppressors, properly used, can offer some benefit in the freqs that are normally prone to feedback, namely the upper-midrange freqs. I've used the Behringer ones, and a few from other makers, and had good results. It's not a cure-all, but it can nip some problems in the bud. As has been said before, these are nothing more than parametric eq's with computer-controlled filters. Properly ringing out a room, setting a few non-roaming filters on the freqs that are especially troublesome, plus leaving one or two to roam, will give you pretty good coverage. This doesn't negate the need for someone to be "on the board" in case something gets out of control, but it can make their job easier. It's like anything else; if you use a tool for what it was intended and within its limitations, you'll get good results. I suspect that the original poster may have had an inflated expectation of what this product can really do. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Angry Jonny Posted October 27, 2004 Members Share Posted October 27, 2004 It's the monitor mix that the bass player uses to hear himself, not dedicated to bass. There are also vocals, and other miced instruments in the mix as well so the feedback suppression is a useful thing. We used it just like you suggest with 8 of our 12 filters fixed and had 4 roamers that were causing the problem. Now I just have the 8 fixed and turned off the other 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve_B Posted October 29, 2004 Members Share Posted October 29, 2004 Interestingly none of the subsequent posts have altered my thoughts about what I wrote previously. The manual (the original DSP1100P) states that using a higher sensitivity for auto feedback suppression can cause musical notes to be recognised as feedback. The only misleading and possibly inaccurate statement is that it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bajazz Posted October 29, 2004 Members Share Posted October 29, 2004 Originally posted by Steve_B Interestingly none of the subsequent posts have altered my thoughts about what I wrote previously. The manual (the original DSP1100P) states that using a higher sensitivity for auto feedback suppression can cause musical notes to be recognised as feedback. The only misleading and possibly inaccurate statement is that it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 29, 2004 Members Share Posted October 29, 2004 Originally posted by Bajazz People won't take their time to learn things properly today, it's all supposed to be plug and play. Automatic AFS and you being a great singer is both possible. The likeliness depends on how much you want it. You can't fly with the best after going tru a vocal technique course book. A feedbackless system is more than just the AFS box. Theres a lot of components running in harmony with each other at the right place at the right time. Just like a great singer doing the gig of his life. So true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alby Posted October 30, 2004 Members Share Posted October 30, 2004 Originally posted by Steve_B Interestingly none of the subsequent posts have altered my thoughts about what I wrote previously. The manual (the original DSP1100P) states that using a higher sensitivity for auto feedback suppression can cause musical notes to be recognised as feedback. The only misleading and possibly inaccurate statement is that it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zuul777 Posted October 30, 2004 Author Members Share Posted October 30, 2004 ok so behringer is good stuff all around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kennykeys Posted October 30, 2004 Members Share Posted October 30, 2004 Steve B, As always, an excellent and eloquent post. I wasn't trying to blame the Behringer Marketing Dept. per se. My post was just more of a general comment about peoples' somewhat inflated expectations being fueled by an advertising dept. (but then that's the name of the game, isn't it.)Of course I agree that you must work with a product and comprehend it's strengths and weaknesses in order to obtain the best results from it.BTW, I've been using the Behr Feedbacker in a limited manner with monitors as a "last chance catch-all" for a couple of years now. I ONLY use it because I'm playing and mixing from the stage. It's tricky setting the appropriate sensitivity in regards to the signal input level. Also, if the sensitivity is set to where it isn't too overly sensitive, then it takes too long to respond (or it doesn't respond at all), but there have been a couple of times where it caught a stupidly caused feedback before I had a chance to dive for the monitor level knob. So for that reason only, I leave it in the rack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Angry Jonny Posted October 30, 2004 Members Share Posted October 30, 2004 I'm with Kenny on this one. We use the FBD as a last resort "oops the singer wasn't thinking and pointed her mic at her monitor" tool. Properly eq'ing both the house and the monitors is the first and most important step, the FBD is there as insurance with no expectation of miracles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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