Sound guys without a clue

[moody]

Played one of our regular venues last night - one of a very few with in-house PA and sound guy. I just have to vent!

 

Essentially we play classic rock, but the soundguy plays techno / dance between our sets with quite stupidly loud low end. This is a smallish club, but I feel the kick and bass through the floor on stage way more than I do from my own bass amp (which is up as loud as I would have it without being through the PA) - I am often suprised that he doesn't blow up his subs as he has them stupidly loud for what they are. (backstage you just feel everything vibrating with the bass).

 

However, the problem with this soundguy is that 1) he doesn't know how to set up a monitor mix and 2) he doesn't no how to mix a band properly.

 

In the first point, we have a lead vocalist and three backing vocalists. On stage at this club we each get a monitor mix - in which the soundguy puts your own vocals. And nothing else!!! It's like getting blood from a stone to get him to put the lead vocals in our monitors (to harmonise to), let alone any other vocals (forget instruments). I would have thought it was standard to put all the vocals through a wedge at least.

 

To the second point. He doesn't mix backing vocals. Part of our sound is having backing vocals. I have heard tapes from the venue (from various positions and various recorders) and you seriously can't hear backing vocals at all. I feel like my time is wasted as I'm singing my heart out on stage and I might as well be miming.

 

We won't be playing there again, for all the problems it was a really good gig - but they have replaced the band nights with a DJ and we've lost our best paying / easiest gig.

[Scodiddly]

Doesn't sound good, but...

 

...when I have multiple mixes and vocalists, I generally don't cross-mix the vocals unless asked. Or maybe I do, at something like 25-50%, if it seems needed.

[agedhorse]

I generally mix at 100% the voxal that's primary for the mix and the rest of the vocals around 25% (to suit each singer's need)

[Guest Anonymous]

 

Originally posted by moody We won't be playing there again, for all the problems it was a really good gig - but they have replaced the band nights with a DJ and we've lost our best paying / easiest gig.

 

Reading between the lines:

 

1) The DJ mixed your band.

2) The DJ butchered your sound.

3) The DJ mixes most of the bands that perform there?

4) The DJ butchers the sound of most of the bands that perform there?

5) When the DJ isn't mixing bands, the DJ expertly presses "play" on the CD machine?

6) The club management decided to scuttle the bands in-lew of canned stuff cause most of the bands sound like crap?

 

This sounds like a dentist who hands out a 5 gal. bucket of Pixie Sticks with every visit... and then "mom" decides to have all the kid's teeth pulled because the kid gets too many cavities.

[moody]

 

Originally posted by Audiopile Reading between the lines: 1) The DJ mixed your band. 2) The DJ butchered your sound. 3) The DJ mixes most of the bands that perform there? 4) The DJ butchers the sound of most of the bands that perform there? 5) When the DJ isn't mixing bands, the DJ expertly presses "play" on the CD machine? 6) The club management decided to scuttle the bands in-lew of canned stuff cause most of the bands sound like crap? This sounds like a dentist who hands out a 5 gal. bucket of Pixie Sticks with every visit... and then "mom" decides to have all the kid's teeth pulled because the kid gets too many cavities.

 

 

The Sound guy has almost lost his job because of this as well. The only reason they are keeping him on is to run the lights for the venue. He would prefer to be running bands than DJ stuff.

[agedhorse]

 

Originally posted by moody He would prefer to be running bands than DJ stuff.

 

Obviously not enough to do as good a job as he should have;)

[Rbts]

I am sorry for your pain.

 

Last night, I went to see a guy I know play... he is in a blue grass band (plays guitar and mandolin), and before the "regular" band started, he was going to play with another guy as a little acoustic duo...

 

the blue grass band had it's own "sound tech", and he is a guy who used to be the house sound guy at the club where all of this was happening.

 

The sound was horrible. It made me mad. The sound tech actually knows these guys... and knows the material... but it was so friggin loud that it actually hurt my ears and made me uncomfortable. How can someone mix an acoustic duo so loud that it hurts your ears? And all through both acts, from time to time this huge deafening low end rumble would begin to build, and end within a few seconds it this huge WAFFLE of low end feedback that just had everyone looking around for whatever was going on and shaking their heads. NOne of these people were kids... this is an adult crowd for crying out loud.

 

My one other bud has commented severalf times about how messed up the sound is at that club... and comments that the room is so harsh that it just alwasy sounds like it is way too loud... even though it is not necessarily that loud. Does THAT make any sense?

 

(I have never heard anything there that I thought wasn't too loud. by the way.

[J.]

It makes sense to me. I've paid good money for tickets to see national level acts and have been greeted by horrible sound. I saw Motorhead live, and the sound was the worst I've ever heard. Granted it is Motorhead (as much as I love 'em), but you still should be able to pick out individual instruments when it's just a freaking power trio up on stage. It was nothing but muck at ridiculous SPLs. I couldn't even tell what songs they were playing most of the time.

[tremendo]

I've seen good bands with good PA's sound like crap and too loud way too often, pisses me off too. We're a 3 piece R & R band, and I probably go the other way to make sure we are clean sounding and everything is clear. I probably need to roughen it up a little and crank it up a bit more, since we are playing "rock". Maybe that's why the older crowd seems to enjoy us more than the 18 - 25 year old head-bangers. They don't lose their hearing when we play .

[msp0001]

Saw Lynyrd Skynyrd, and the sound was terrible-It really sucked--

WAY to loud --Could not seperate any of the instruments

It sounded like one huge mud ball !!!

For $50.00 a ticket---I was not Happy

It is always better to go for Quality rather than Quantity(IMO)

[Miket156]

It was SO freakin' LOUD, I had a headache for 3 days, and I was wearing hearing protection.

 

Maybe the soundmen are freakin' DEAF from turning everything up to 125db and leaving it there.

 

Mike T.

[Rbts]

In fairness, I could also make one other comment...

 

I saw Bob Dylan last year in South Bend IN, at a minor league baseball stadium there.

 

There was some three piece rockabilly-bluegrass group played first and then Willie Nelson, and then Bob Dylan.

 

The opening act was very cool and the sound was fine.

 

Willie Nelson's band was good and the sound was fine, you could hear everything pretty much.

 

Then Bob dylan came out and .... it was so loud you could barely make out what was going on.. It was uncomfortable... I started roaming around the stadium... eventually, I ended up over beside the sound booth... and there... even though the sound was what I would call "too loud"... at least everything was balanced, and you could hear everything and such.

 

I suspect that if they would just have turned it down a notch it would have been better everywhere... but what do I know.

 

I am jsut saying that another side of things is that sometimes I notice that things sound a lot better if you stand right by the sound booth, than it does in other parts of the venue.

[tremendo]

 

Originally posted by Rbts I am jsut saying that another side of things is that sometimes I notice that things sound a lot better if you stand right by the sound booth, than it does in other parts of the venue.

 

I agree. But I think it's the soundman's job to try and make it sound as good as possible everywhere, given what he has to work with. Whether it be turning down, changing setup, etc. What good is a 50,000 person venue if only the soundman and 300 people hear it well....

 

But, no matter how much we whine about this, people are still buying tickets to these events (incluidng me), so they got us there.

[agedhorse]

YOu know...

 

Ticket sales are way off and prices are at an all time high. "Inappropriate" and uncomfortable sound levels are not helping things.

 

I did see a set from the recent Eagles tour and the sound was very well executed, as was an Elton John show from a couple years back (NAMM).

[tremendo]

Tonight starts the Houston Livestock and Rodeo with bands every night. I'll probably see Steve Miller, and maybe catch another one or two. In the past, some nights there it's been OK, sometimes just mid-range junk flying everywhere. I do know enough, however, to know that I would NOT want to be in charge of trying to make Reliant Stadium sound good (@80,000 stadium).

[Rbts]

Yea.....

 

I will have to say....

 

that at all of the events that I have been to, and just HATED the sound...

 

usually it is a full house, and nobody else seems to mind..

 

Maybe I just need to drink more and shut up?

[agedhorse]

 

Originally posted by tremendo Tonight starts the Houston Livestock and Rodeo with bands every night. I'll probably see Steve Miller, and maybe catch another one or two. In the past, some nights there it's been OK, sometimes just mid-range junk flying everywhere. I do know enough, however, to know that I would NOT want to be in charge of trying to make Reliant Stadium sound good (@80,000 stadium).

 

The hell with the bands... the roughstock competition is where it's really at.

 

Rootie tootie tootie... open the chutie!

[lucho_84]

Originally posted by tremendo Tonight starts the Houston Livestock and Rodeo with bands every night. I'll probably see Steve Miller, and maybe catch another one or two. In the past, some nights there it's been OK, sometimes just mid-range junk flying everywhere. I do know enough, however, to know that I would NOT want to be in charge of trying to make Reliant Stadium sound good (@80,000 stadium).

 

Last year, my FFA chapter was given backstage passes and floor passes to half of the events. we were also given a bunch of carnival tickets by some stranger who just wanted to get rid of his excess tickets. I wish I were in high school again. It was fun and it sure is different watching those huge events from backstage. Nice to see what ges on during a production for a huge stadium like Reliant.