Members Phantasm Posted May 10, 2005 Members Share Posted May 10, 2005 Yet another HWIH (here's what I have!) and what should I buy next thread... Current PA: 2 - Yamaha SM115IV (tops)2 - Yamaha SM118V (Subs)1 - RMX 8501 - RMX 24501 - DBX 223 Crossover (set to Yamaha's reccommended 100hz) All cabinets 8 ohms. I'm running the two tops one on each side of the RMX 850, and the subs one on each side of the RMX 2450. So the question now is, 1) Am I running things in the best configuration possible at this time? and, 2) Should I buy more tops, or more subs next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted May 10, 2005 Members Share Posted May 10, 2005 You could also run both subs off channel 1 of the 2450 and both tops off the other channel, this will leave the 850 for wedges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 10, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 Yeah, get some monitors next. And think "better" not "more" speakers. Better one excellent than two average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimmyP Posted May 10, 2005 Members Share Posted May 10, 2005 You don't have nearly enough amp on the tops. I've found the 850 to be pretty puny. I recently installed an 850 driving a pair of 75w 8" Yamaha boxes in an aerobics studio, and those dinky boxes will take everything the 850 can dish out. One side of a 2450 would be less than I would use on those tops or those subs, but it may be more than agedhorse would recommend, and thus is likely a good compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 10, 2005 Members Share Posted May 10, 2005 One side of the 2450 for tops and the other for subs is just about right. Are you seeing the clip/limit lights flash much on the 850? If not, then there's plenty of power for YOUR application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phantasm Posted May 10, 2005 Author Members Share Posted May 10, 2005 Originally posted by Craigv Yeah, get some monitors next. And think "better" not "more" speakers. Better one excellent than two average. I forgot to mention that i've got some monitors, but I've been carrying around another amp like a dummy to push them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phantasm Posted May 10, 2005 Author Members Share Posted May 10, 2005 Originally posted by agedhorse One side of the 2450 for tops and the other for subs is just about right. Are you seeing the clip/limit lights flash much on the 850? If not, then there's plenty of power for YOUR application. The clip lights for the 850 never flash. The 2450 blinks when the kick hits. We keep our stage voulme in check though so we don't have to press the PA too terribly hard, and most of our shows are just average clubs. The bigger venues have their own PA. I had them on separate amps becuase I was under the impression that the same watts for tops/bottoms would make the tops waaaay too loud, and that stereo was good. I guess it doesn't matter about stereo live, and that's what the gain on the amp is for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phantasm Posted May 10, 2005 Author Members Share Posted May 10, 2005 Originally posted by Craigv Yeah, get some monitors next. And think "better" not "more" speakers. Better one excellent than two average. Are my speakers "average?" What is "better?" Examples? I know that a higher quality sub will sound good (just like my Eden 410 is better than a peavey 810 for bass.) I'm just not sure what's good and reasonably priced. I was under the impression the yamaha club series was decent. I saw a show where the guy had 4 Peavey subs, they were newer with grey metal grilles and they were hittin very tight... just they were pretty pricey when I looked at them online. Also, i noticed he had 4 subs and 2 tops... is this normal, to have more subs than tops? Edit: Don't be afraid to insult my PA if needed, that's ok... just make some suggestions on how I can make it better while getting your jabs in!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 10, 2005 Members Share Posted May 10, 2005 Originally posted by Phantasm The clip lights for the 850 never flash. The 2450 blinks when the kick hits. We keep our stage voulme in check though so we don't have to press the PA too terribly hard, and most of our shows are just average clubs. The bigger venues have their own PA. I had them on separate amps becuase I was under the impression that the same watts for tops/bottoms would make the tops waaaay too loud, and that stereo was good. I guess it doesn't matter about stereo live, and that's what the gain on the amp is for? Then the amp is big enough for your application. Same for splitting up on the 2450. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flip333 Posted May 10, 2005 Members Share Posted May 10, 2005 Hello, I have used Yamaha S115IV 's for a couple of years. I have made them work well for me. Last New Year's eve I did a gig for an Elks club. I used one side of a Behringer PMX2000 for mains (125W to each speaker) and the other for monitors. We played oldies, country, and rock for about 100 people in a large room with carpet and a low soft ceiling. I miced 5 vocals, 2 guitars and kick drum. It sounded fine except that one loud singer clipped his channel a bit. Kick drum was certainly not booming, but I had enough in the PA to make a difference. We were as loud as we needed to be. Yamaha club series are considered to be decent speakers. They are "good enough". As good as that may be, I choose more clarity. I therefore have a pair of SRX715's on the way with a new WizMix. My Yamaha's will move to monitor duty. I use 4 Peavey TLS subs. They are considered to be mediocre subs though; perhaps similar to the Yamaha subs from what I have heard. But they really do fine, especially after I inserted a comp/gate. Plenty of punch with 1800W in the subs, and I can carry them fine at 60lbs each. When I upgrade, I will probably choose 2 x Yorkville LS series or 4 x JBL MPro subs, or maybe QW218 's... although it depends on the kind of gigs I get. If I get more of the same cheap bar gigs, I will keep what I have. If you bought two excellent subs, that would be enough. Or one 2 x 18 cab. I have not heard the Yorkville stuff, but I have read how impressed people are. If and when you are ready, you could get some nice JBL SRX speakers, or some Yorkville U15's, or EV, or EAW. Lots of choices. Just don't make a lateral move. If you want to move up, then move up "real good". So-o-o, for the mean time, if you get nice subs you will get a much nicer sound.... A single LS800P would do. You would have 1500W under your tops getting 750W... nice match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted May 10, 2005 Members Share Posted May 10, 2005 Originally posted by Phantasm Are my speakers "average?"What is "better?"Examples? You may want to stop by my Yorkville U15 thread. They're a notch or two above the Yamahas quality-wise. We have the same Yamahas as you and a pair of Carvin TR-1503s, which are comparable in quality with eachother, although the Carvins are a little bigger. They got us by well and sounded pretty good. I used the Yorkvilles for the first time this weekend, and the difference is very noticable. Mostly there's just a clarity and a seperation of instruments that isn't there with the other speakers. We're not an extremely loud band, but I do want quality sound, and the better speakers do make a difference. I'm always a little surprised when people comment on our sound, because I assume that most people don't really know or care. But every show there's usually a few people who offer their opinions on what could be improved or what they liked. This time, the comment to crowd size ratio was about double what it usually was, and the praise was universal. So people do notice, and to me that was worth the extra cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 10, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 Originally posted by Phantasm Are my speakers "average?" What is "better?" Examples? I know that a higher quality sub will sound good (just like my Eden 410 is better than a peavey 810 for bass.) I'm just not sure what's good and reasonably priced. I was under the impression the yamaha club series was decent. I saw a show where the guy had 4 Peavey subs, they were newer with grey metal grilles and they were hittin very tight... just they were pretty pricey when I looked at them online. Also, i noticed he had 4 subs and 2 tops... is this normal, to have more subs than tops? Edit: Don't be afraid to insult my PA if needed, that's ok... just make some suggestions on how I can make it better while getting your jabs in!!! Yamaha Clubs are the definition of decent and average. There are thousands out there. The tops are good, but the subs are not quite enough for many people and they sometimes get blown because they get pushed beyond their capabilities. Better, would be Yorkville Elite, Peavey QW (that's possibly the line of subs you saw...all gray), JBL Mpro 400 or SRX, EV QRX, Community Tandems. It's not unusual to see twice as many sub drivers as mid and high for rock, and other bass-heavy genres. You're not likely to see this for a bluegrass festival, and at a death-metal show or a rave you may see more. All depends on the need to make the audience's vision blur when the kick hits. Just as an Eden 410 is likely to cost double a Peavey 410, so too does an "upgrade" in PA gear. What you have now definitely will do the job in most club gigs and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. To upgrade will be pricey, and the upgrade you're looking at now will require some thought and possibly deciding if you are best served by buying or by hiring a system with engineer. There's a lot to be said for being the master of your destiny, but conversely a lot to be said for handing over the cash at the door and going in to play your music. Classic cost/benefit analysis work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phantasm Posted May 10, 2005 Author Members Share Posted May 10, 2005 Thanks everyone, So the consensus seems to be that I should not add more speakers, but get higher quality subs and retire the ones I'm using? That was really my original question, should I get a second set of subs or will I be drowing out the tops if I do that. All of my bands are rock/metal bands if that helps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 10, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 The subs are probably the weak link, so yeah, IMO they should be the first to go. There's no danger of drowning out the tops if you just control the sub's levels. When you get some more money, get better tops, and then get appropriate power for them if needed. You'll sometimes find that better speakers are also more efficient so you can hold off on new power for a while or maybe for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted May 11, 2005 Members Share Posted May 11, 2005 You could always get the Yamaha dual 18 subs with a Yamaha P7000 to push them (in parallel mono, each channel gets the same signal with one box per channel). I'd just like to see if anyone is using the dual 18 from yamaha really, they seem like a good investment. Really a better pair of subs will prilly do you right, the MP418 or SRX4718 on closeout or some EV SB180's etc will be better. The single 18 yamaha sub isn't exactly a wall shaker. Then again it rarely gets used in situations where it can come alive. p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimmyP Posted May 11, 2005 Members Share Posted May 11, 2005 Originally posted by Phantasm I had them on separate amps becuase I was under the impression that the same watts for tops/bottoms would make the tops waaaay too loud, and that stereo was good. I guess it doesn't matter about stereo live, and that's what the gain on the amp is for? Use can use an amp of infinite power with no troubles - so long as you don't push it too hard :-) The larger amp may have more gain, which would need to be accounted for to keep the tops/subs balance right. That is one possible use of the gain controls on the amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 11, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 Originally posted by TimmyP Use can use an amp of infinite power with no troubles - so long as you don't push it too hard :-) Words that warm the hearts and line the wallets of reconers the world over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phantasm Posted May 11, 2005 Author Members Share Posted May 11, 2005 Thanks for the advice everyone. Perhaps I'll try renting some better subs for a few shows to see which ones work best. I guess that depends on rental fees... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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