I need a small PA

[Guest Anonymous]

Originally posted by fuzzball Thanks for the tips and ideas, I have a little research to do (which is fine it will give me more time to save up the cash).

I tried to find an example (but couldn't) of EAW JF80 speakers.

 

Here's the cut-sheet:

 

http://www.eaw.com/products/JF80.html

 

I've seen and heard these used in situations similar to yours... very impressive. They have a lot of characteristics that seem to work well for coffee house/ acoustic guitar & vocal work:

 

1) They sound great on this sort of stuff. The sound is strong/smooth/clear/pleasant, even at seemingly low volumes.

 

2) They're small and transport well: 21" high x 8" wide x 9" deep

 

3) Their shape and size isn't imposing. They look GOOD flanking a coffee house duet when mounted on stands. They don't look loud... although they'll kick it out at 120dB if need be. The shape and design also seems to be timeless in-that they look like something new and classy even though this model has been around for years.

 

4) They're tough and hold up well to years of road use.

 

5) They have just the right balance of directional pattern for coffee house work: Good un-beamy coverage, but enough drop-off on the sides to mitigate GBF problems.

 

6) They are very, very smooth. I believe the conical horn for the compression driver is largely responsible for this.

 

IMO: These are great coffee house duet boxes... but they're pricy. New they tipped the scale at about a kilobuck ea. I've seen a few used ones now-and-then go for about $250 - $350 ea. in good condition. EAW had a few different versions, including the MM80 system which came with subwoofers and a processor I think.

[fuzzball]

I will have to mic my partners guitar, I have an ovation that I can run direct. I love my ovation, it sounds very nice.

My partners will be the one that may cause trouble since it will have to be miced, or have a pickup added (I think I will try to convince him to get a pickup.

[milesdf]

The eaw jf80 sound fantastic, ive used them for stage lip front fills and they are fantastic for voice and acoustic instruments. the issue is in placement, they dont have pole mounts. you could install a pole bracket, or i guess put them on a chair.

[fingerstyleman]

Originally posted by fuzzball I will have to mic my partners guitar, I have an ovation that I can run direct. I love my ovation, it sounds very nice. My partners will be the one that may cause trouble since it will have to be miced, or have a pickup added (I think I will try to convince him to get a pickup.

The choices for acoustic pick-up systems are endless. I went with a Shaddow bridge replacement unit for my classical (no holes required), but I beleive the Sunrise sound-hole pick-ups are the way to go if you have the cash.

[fuzzball]

Thanks guys I will let him know, I think he would prefer not to make any holes so that advise will be a great help.

[Harmonycat]

Originally posted by fuzzball I have a 16 channel mixer, 2 -400 w power amps, and my speaker cabs are way to big. I would like to have a small system that I could use just for small gigs.

1) Do you have a decent set of monitors for your large PA System?

If so.....use them as your speakers. I use EV Force Monitors. 28lbs each.....so the mount on speaker stands real well.

If not, buy a pair of monitors with speaker stand mounts. That way you have monitors for your large PA and speakers for your small PA.

2) Look for a Yorkville BM 400 bass amp head, (second hand). Two rack spaces. Cheap, (too clean to be good bass amps), with a good built in limiter and a ten band EQ......and 400 rms into 4 ohms. They sound great. 35lbs

They are light and work well for a monitor amp in a Large PA and a speaker amp in a Small PA.

3) Buy a little Mackie DFX 6 mixer or DFX 12, with passable effects and a five band EQ.....7 lbs or 12 lbs

They work very well as a small clean portable mixer with effects for a small PA and as an auxiliary mixer for a Keyboard or whatever for a Large PA.

So now you have more versatile dual use equipment, that offers enough inputs....digital effects....two EQs.....a limiter....clean, (powerful enough for coffee shop), amplification....and light, good sounding speakers, (1" Compression driver and 12" speakers).

Easy to set up, and cart arround. Cheap to buy with more than one use. Did I say expandable?

When you need just a little more, or want a fuller sound:

Take one of your larger amps, sent the monitor feed to it from the mixer to a crossover.....add a single small Sub and you have a sophisticated little mini PA. If your amps are newer and have the crossover already built in your homefree.


Cheap Powered Mixers do not integrate nearly as well with your Large PA , nor are they as compact or inexpensive as this set up.


Been doing it for years......CHEERS!!!

[DaBender]

I'll second HarmonyCat's suggestion. Another possibility for the power amp is a Soundtech PL600M, with an integral 9-band eq. It's billed as a monitor amp, but would suit your FOH needs just fine.

[fingerstyleman]

Figured I'd post a couple of pictures.

Here's the shaddow piezon for classical, replaces the bridge, nice sound, use either a DI or a tube pre ;



Into the Yamahah Stagepass via a small mixing desk, very cheap Behringer, through a 31 band EQ, also a cheap Behringer (hey guys, I'll upgrade when I acheive wealth);



Here's a rear view of the Stagepass, the 300 watt powered mixer clips in and out for ease of use, its neater kept in the back at home, the 'Blue Thing' sat on top of the speaker in the front view is my V-Amp2, with hindsight I'd have bought the rack mount unit, and may still replace this one.



Its a nice budget set-up, ran to

[Guest Anonymous]

Originally posted by milesdf they dont have pole mounts. you could install a pole bracket, or i guess put them on a chair.

 

I believe the first few year's of production might have come stock with integrated pole mounts. I have a cut sheet here from EAW explaining that the pole mounts are intended to be used with "Ultimate Speaker stands". I believe the later versions had accomodations for add-on pole mount adaptors. I dunno though. All the ones I've ever seen were mounted on speaker stands.

 

Man... they do sound GOOD for coffee shop amplified acoustic guitar and vocals though. And look GOOD doing it too!

[fuzzball]

Dang, you guys are helpful. I have a lot to think about.

[Terry Allan Hall]

Before you lay down any green, consider the Carvin P620-805 set-up...a 200w RMS 6-channel powered mixer and a pair of 10" + tweeter cabs...a lot of folks dog Carvin, but speaking as someone who has earned a decent living from performing w/ Carvin PA gear for 30 years, I can assure you (from 1st hand experience) that Carvin gear is the BEST for acoustic music.

Just add a pair of stands and you're good to go!

http://www.carvin.com/products/single.php?ItemNumber=P620-805&CID=SYS1

[Guest Anonymous]

These don't quite have the beef of the JF-80's... but they ought to be pretty sweet for your coffee shop gigs:

http://cgi.ebay.com/EAW-JF50S-1-Pair-Two-Way-Full-Range-Speakers_W0QQitemZ7399780283

[fuzzball]

I am still researching, but I think I might go for the Peavey escort after all. I will think on it for a few weeks while we are practicing for our set.

[fuzzball]

The carvin unit is looking pretty good too.

[Guest Anonymous]

Originally posted by fuzzball I am still researching, but I think I might go for the Peavey escort after all. I will think on it for a few weeks while we are practicing for our set.

 

 

 

Originally posted by fuzzball The carvin unit is looking pretty good too.

 

sigh

[fuzzball]

I can't help it I just don't seem to be satisfied with the cheaper systems.

[Guest Anonymous]

Originally posted by fuzzball I can't help it I just don't seem to be satisfied with the cheaper systems.

 

Those used EAW JF-50's list for about $1,200/pair... maybe a little more. I have an old pricelist.

[Harmonycat]

Originally posted by fuzzball I can't help it I just don't seem to be satisfied with the cheaper systems.

 

 

Hey fuzzball

 

Do yourself a favour and rent one of these little toy systems before you spend your hard earned money. No disrespect to any of these companies since they all make some very nice stuff a little bigger than this stuff.

 

These products are just plain inadequate......

 

You will find that a 75 watt per speaker Peavey or 100 watt per speaker Carvin, are a total waste of your money. Only good for speaches.

 

The Yamaha Stagepass at 160 watts per speaker is a bare minimum for coffee shop gigs, because the speakers are not that efficient. 160rms per speaker at 98-100 db 1 watt/ 1 meter will get you by, but that is a minimum. I doubt those speakers are nearly that efficient.

 

None of these systems have efficient PA Speakers. The Peavey Escort speakers feature Piezos and those are just nasty.

 

Rent one for your first gig and you will see how hopeless this stuff is. The rental money will teach you a valuable lesson in perspective.

 

Don't end up with a bunch of compromized junk that you will regret owning.

 

We used to call that kind of stuff "Cheap and Dirty";)

[milesdf]

Originally posted by Audiopile I believe the first few year's of production might have come stock with integrated pole mounts. I have a cut sheet here from EAW explaining that the pole mounts are intended to be used with "Ultimate Speaker stands". I believe the later versions had accomodations for add-on pole mount adaptors. I dunno though. All the ones I've ever seen were mounted on speaker stands. Man... they do sound GOOD for coffee shop amplified acoustic guitar and vocals though. And look GOOD doing it too!

 

 

hmm. ours definitley only had one little threaded hole on each side for a wall mounting bracket, and ive never thought of them for that application before. will keep it in mind.

 

eaw JF80 is definitley not a cheap little speaker, probablly one of the most expensive options anyone has ever utilized for this kind of little setup actually.

[Guest Anonymous]

Originally posted by milesdf eaw JF80 is definitley not a cheap little speaker, probablly one of the most expensive options anyone has ever utilized for this kind of little setup actually.

 

Hopefully, the JF80 recommendation is arguably one of the BEST options utilized for this kind of little set-up... although admittedly they're not dirt cheap up-front.

 

Also, hopefully the JF80 would prove to be one of the most cost effective solutions.

 

I've seen powered Meyer, Nexo, and the ilk utilized for coffee shop work... any of which I'm sure could be considerably more expensive than the EAW JF80 rig. I believe something on the order of the JF series EAW, or similar rig is pretty-much entry level for "truly good sound... in a small setting... with a nice, small, spanky rig."

 

A bigger/beefier JF series with a similar smooth HF section:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/EAW-JF-200-BI-AMP-PASSIVE-POLE-MOUNTABLE-SPEAKER_W0QQitemZ7400923130

 

These JF-200's should be pretty-much ideal for coffee shop work over a fairly broad range of applications... although they're bigger and heavier.

[agedhorse]

I've got a pair of JF-80's and they are a hell of a speaker for anything over about 70Hz. They are also anything BUT cheap.