the science of sound and me

[Marko]

 

Originally posted by InACanProductions Also before linking speakers to that powered mixer check your ohm ratings.

 

 

That mixer is rated for 4ohm use. It's 500w per ch at 4ohms, so he wouldn't want to run dual 15 mains with subs. I should have thought of commenting on that.

 

Thanks.

[Marko]

As for considering powered speakers, I was just trying to go with what he was already posed for, instead of getting too deep into completely new configurations.

 

I'm sure if you want to do all that, he'll be happy to read and consider it.

[Marko]

Finding out the OPs budget would also have been wise.

 

I was assuming his budget by what he'd already suggested, and trying to bump it up to something that was usable. One would not usually choose components that were half of what he had to spend.

 

I guess I was ASSuming... lol.

[Rockstar97]

Well, it's tricky because I'm in Canada and I know a lot of you think in US dollars (although as of right now it's really not too different)...and I shyed away from putting a dollar amount because I really to put sound before dollar amount. But since you asked...I was initially thinking about $3,000-4,000 Canadian for the bulk of it.

[InACanProductions]

 

Originally posted by Rockstar97 Well, it's tricky because I'm in Canada and I know a lot of you think in US dollars (although as of right now it's really not too different)...and I shyed away from putting a dollar amount because I really to put sound before dollar amount. But since you asked...I was initially thinking about $3,000-4,000 Canadian for the bulk of it.

 

 

2 words, Yorkville and Active. Let some of the other guys on here help you out, I'm not up on the exchange rate or where the reputable dealers in Canada are, but many guys here do/are dealers.

[Marko]

"Active" vs "passive" is a whole debate in itself. Someone has to decide for themselves what they prefer and what is most suitable to their needs. There are definite advantages and disadvantages to consider, and seemingly no concensus even amongst pro's.

 

As for Yorkville, there would be very little debate there. Price them, and if they're in your budget, then you can't go wrong.

[kevinnem]

where are you in Canada?

 

We have a meber her from Van/maple ridge, I am in calgary, and I am sure many more from the east.

 

 

 

Kev.

[Rockstar97]

I'm about 90 minutes west of Toronto

[Rockstar97]

Ok, so if I'm going the powered route, I think I may have fallen for Yorkville (without hearing them, mind you). This is what I'm thinking now:

 

2 Yorkville NX55P's

2 Yorkville LS800P's

 

Then I'd have to kiss the EMX-5000-20 goodbye because I would no longer need a powered mixer, although I did like the features it had just as a mixer. Any other suggestions for an unpowered mixer then?

 

And what about a small amp to power my Peavey 112's as monitors?

 

This is getting very exciting...and I now know how accessible Yorkville is here in Ontario...way more so than Yamaha.

[Marko]

It couldn't hurt to do a search with respect to Powered vs passive. I am NOT trying to disuade, or even give any opinion at all, it just doesn't hurt to read a little.

 

 

 

One thread where the matter was discussed a bit.

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=604884&highlight=powered+vs

[Marko]

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=430801&highlight=powered+vs

[Renegator]

For what it is worth, I got an entry level Crown amp rated at 350 watts per channel at 8 ohms, two low end JBL speakers, and a small Alesis mixer plus two sets of 50 foot speaker cables for $1000 American down in the middle of NY state.

 

For $300 more I could have gotten two NX55Ps, which my buddy the bass player has since bought.

 

Sure wish I had. Easier and lighter to carry, and much better sounding!

 

As far as expandability of two NX55Ps, you can always add subs. And if going bigger, use the Yorkvilles as monitors and buy a bigger set up for the mains.

[Marko]

I'm checking out that NX55P (just looking), and that is a damn nice unit. Lot's of great technology and features.

[InACanProductions]

 

Originally posted by Rockstar97 Ok, so if I'm going the powered route, I think I may have fallen for Yorkville (without hearing them, mind you). This is what I'm thinking now: 2 Yorkville NX55P's 2 Yorkville LS800P's Then I'd have to kiss the EMX-5000-20 goodbye because I would no longer need a powered mixer, although I did like the features it had just as a mixer. Any other suggestions for an unpowered mixer then? And what about a small amp to power my Peavey 112's as monitors? This is getting very exciting...and I now know how accessible Yorkville is here in Ontario...way more so than Yamaha.

 

 

Yorkville was my suggestion based on sound quality vs. the other previously mentioned budget speakers, and the fact that they are a product of Canada so availablity and cost would be in your favor.

 

That set up is too much sub for those tops. You'd be fine with 1 LS800P for 2 of the NX55Ps no question. The LS800P is about 145lbs, not sure how heavy the LS700P is (2x10 active sub) but you might want to explore 2 of those as an option (though probably not as cost effective as the 1 800P).

 

For tops there is also an NX750P which gives you 127dB max SPL vs. 125dB with the 55P. It has a 15" driver vs. a 12" (good for when not using subs as you mentioned you might not). The 750P weighs around 20lbs more and costs about $100 US more (depending where you look).

 

I'm not recomending the Yamaha board, but if you like it, and you need something to power your monitors you could use the power amps from the mixer into your peavey 112s. That's your call, but probably not what I would do personally.

 

You should draw some diagrams to see how everything could work together to find the best solution for you. I think the yorkville powered stuff would work very well in your situation.

 

Don't forget to factor in XLR cables into your budget if you go powered. Not sure if Mark at Audiopile can ship to Canada, but if he can that's where I'd start for my cable purchases. And if you're going with subs get an active crossover. You'll have better control than using the built in crossovers (especially if you don't end up going with powered speakers).

[Rockstar97]

I don't know why I have it in my head that I need two subs...maybe it's because that's what I've always seen in acts doing what I do.

 

Since I do have some room for adjustment in my budget, I don't see why I couldn't opt for a pair of NX750P's with a pair of LS700P's. As you say, not quite as cost-effective as a single LS800P, but it would sound better with two, right? Especially for the dancing. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

And I'm not sold on the EMX-5000. I hear the built-in effects aren't great...I just really liked the number of inputs...room for growth. What unpowered board would you recommend, and what about power to the 112's?

[InACanProductions]

 

Originally posted by Rockstar97 I don't know why I have it in my head that I need two subs...maybe it's because that's what I've always seen in acts doing what I do. Since I do have some room for adjustment in my budget, I don't see why I couldn't opt for a pair of NX750P's with a pair of LS700P's. As you say, not quite as cost-effective as a single LS800P, but it would sound better with two, right? Especially for the dancing. Correct me if I'm wrong. And I'm not sold on the EMX-5000. I hear the built-in effects aren't great...I just really liked the number of inputs...room for growth. What unpowered board would you recommend, and what about power to the 112's?

 

 

I don't have real expierence with the LS700P so I can't really comment if 2 of them would be better than 1 LS800P. I do own 2 LS800Ps, and 4 of the older NX550Ps though, which is how I could say that 2 of the LS800Ps would be too much for your tops. Using just 1 sub would be fine if that's all you needed for the music, there are quite a few guys on here that only use 1 LS800P for gigs. If you did have 2 of the LS700Ps you'd probably be placing them side by side touching to get the best coupling, so all the Lows would be coming from a single source point either way. This is where some research and demoing will be beneficial.

 

The A&H MixWiz gets a good nod on this forum generally. I like the features on paper (6 aux, 2 subgroups, FX, 16 mic ch, 4 band EQ per mono ch w/2 sweepable mids), though the only use I've had with one was at Guitar Center with a CD hooked up, not a real trial IMO. I have used Mackie CFX, and DFX series a bit and I was not impressed at all with the features or the quality of the FX. Same goes for Behringer (one youth group I work with has one and it's terrible, especially the FX), I've used a number of different models and only liked 1 that is discontinued. For entry level mixers there used to be threads every other day compairing the Peavey RQs and Yamaha MGs. I've used an RQ a few times (at another youth group) but more just helping out someone else using it, not focusing any attention to it, just twisting a few knobs and moving a few faders.

 

As for power for the monitors goes I'm sure you can find something locally in the used market. I don't know the specs of the monitors so I'm not going to throw out any spacific suggestions. You may find some PLX series amps hitting the market now that the PLX2s are out (coming out soon?). Look around a bit, or make some calls to see what's laying around locally, then come back and find out the info once you know what's available to you.

 

Use the search function and you'll find tons of info on all the gear that has been mentioned in this thread. Remember everyone's first hand expierences are different, so try to demo some gear before you buy based on my, or other's, opinions.

[Rockstar97]

Ok, so a couple more weeks of research has brought me to this point. I can get 2 Yorkville NX750p mains for $1025 each (keep in mind this is Canadian $), 2 LS700p subs for $879 each, and a mackie dfx-12 mixer for $299 (I've used it before and it functioned pretty well).

 

The dealer who quoted me these prices is really pushing for JBL since they deal mainly with them, but I have it in my head that Yorkville is just a little more higher-end.

 

I think it sounds like a good system for what I do - comments?

 

BTW, I'm also getting a TC-Helicon Voiceworks to replace my Quintet.

[flanc]

 

Originally posted by Rockstar97 Ok, so a couple more weeks of research has brought me to this point. I can get 2 Yorkville NX750p mains for $1025 each (keep in mind this is Canadian $), 2 LS700p subs for $879 each, and a mackie dfx-12 mixer for $299 (I've used it before and it functioned pretty well). The dealer who quoted me these prices is really pushing for JBL since they deal mainly with them, but I have it in my head that Yorkville is just a little more higher-end. I think it sounds like a good system for what I do - comments? BTW, I'm also getting a TC-Helicon Voiceworks to replace my Quintet.

 

 

I'd rethink the mixer. If you do some research on this forum, you'll find most folks are not fond of the CFX and newer DFX line from Mackie. You'd be better served by a similarly price Peavey or Yamaha board....IMHO.

[Singin' Dave]

I commend you for doing your homework prior to this purchase and for your openness to the advice being offered here - wise moves that will pay off for you.

 

I'll throw in some thoughts based on my limited experience. I started out with powered mixers but have now moved to powered speakers (2 X Yorkville nx55p's) and subs (2 X Yorkville ls700p). I find this be a very well balanced and tidy 2,500 watt FOH workhorse for me that fits easily into any venue as well as my SUV along with my monitors, mixing board, processing rack,stands etc. I would HIGHLY recommend this set of speakers/subs- reliable, great sounding and simple to operate.

 

To these 4 speakers, I would add:

 

16 channel mixing board w/ built in effects (Allen & Heath MixWiz gets a lot of love here for good reason)

QSC RMX 850 or 1450 amp to power your existing monitors (I would look to provide sufficient power to both monitors out of one channel of the amp, leaving the second channel for another set of monitors if needed in the future)

a couple 31 band EQ's and a cross-over (or the DriveRack)

 

I'm not sure what your mode of transporting your gear, but an ls800p is a beast to move and not as clean as telescoping 2 ls700p's under your nx55p's, despite it being an excellent sub that could probably outperform the 2 ls700ps. Something to consider at least...

 

Good Luck!

[Dark Ice]

 

Originally posted by Rockstar97 Since I do have some room for adjustment in my budget, I don't see why I couldn't opt for a pair of NX750P's with a pair of LS700P's. As you say, not quite as cost-effective as a single LS800P, but it would sound better with two, right? Especially for the dancing. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

I've found two threads which discuss this exact issue:

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1217962

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1210452

 

Also, since you liked the yamaha powered mixer, how about looking at their passive mixers (MG series) instead of that mackie?

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/products/index.html#amixer

 

The PV series is also worth a look!

http://www.peavey.com/products/browse.cfm/action/list/cat/86/begin/1/PVSeries.cfm

 

Steve.

[Rockstar97]

So...

 

2 Yorkville NX55P mains

2 Yorkville LS700P subs

Allen & Heath MixWiz 16:2 mixer

DBX DriveRack PA

QSC RMX 850 amp (for mons I have)

TC-Helicon Voiceworks

cables, stands, power conditioner, etc.

 

Yikes. I wonder if I can hit eBay for the DriveRack at least. And I might be able to get away with a cheaper amp for the monitors since they're only 150W per side.

 

This is starting to look good though!

[Singin' Dave]

Starting to look VERY good! That's a bumpin' little PA!

 

You may not need the T.C. unit as the MixWiz has built in FX,I believe.

[twostone]

Okay you established your FOH system but for the rest of the gear like mic stands and speaker stands don't skimp their neither those bargin deals you see on the online store's are peieces of {censored} Sometimes ebay has decent stands pretty reasonable price. Cables most everybody here will tell you Mark over at Audiopile has the best bang for the buck on cables, their like Monster cable but a fraction of the price, plus they're great people for any tech. question on running and setting up sound systems. Mics I would go through ebay I picked up 2 -SM57 for 90$ with shipping uesally their 90$ each. Just remember buying top name brand will help you on re-sale value if later down the line you decide to sell..

[Marko]

Originally posted by twostone Mics I would go through ebay I picked up 2 -SM57 for 90$ with shipping uesally their 90$ each. Just remember buying top name brand will help you on re-sale value if later down the line you decide to sell..

 

I remember reading about great deals on 57s & 58s from ebay... lotsa fakes there. I wouldn't trust it.

[Rockstar97]

I really can't afford the MixWiz -- it's over $1,000 here. It sounds so appealing, but it's just not doable. Is there a less costly alternative?

 

And I do need the Voiceworks for the harmony capabilities when I'm doing solo shows.