PA speaker for amplification of PODs?

[Mind Riot]

Hi all, I don't think I've ever posted on this forum before. I'm mostly a studio rat.

 

But recently I've come back into contact with some old friends who might be looking to jam. In my studio I record direct with e-drums and POD's (a PODxt and bass POD). It's in an apartment, you know how it is. I don't own anything that can keep up with a drum set, amplification wise (actually I don't even own any conventional amplification except for my power amp and monitors). And seeing as how one of my friends has $4000 invested in his very nice Yamaha set with Sabian hand hammered cymbals all around, I can understand him wanting to hear it in the context of a band.

 

So I was thinking of getting some kind of PA type setup to amplify my bass POD. It seems it would be cheaper than getting a bass amp that could keep up and more versatile, as I could also use it for my guitar PODxt should the occasion arise.

 

I admit I'm not very experienced with this stuff. So I'm looking for recommendations for a speaker and power amp (or active speaker) on a budget that will adequately amplify bass guitar and keep up with a hard hitting drummer.

 

Budget for speaker is as low as possible, max about $300. Amp around $300-$350, I may be able to split part of that cost with the guitarist should he choose to use one of the channels as part of his rig. Active would be around $450 max.

 

Bear in mind this is just to play in a room and keep up with the acoustic set. That's the only requirement. This won't most likely be used as an actual PA.

 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

[B. Adams]

 

Originally posted by Mind Riot This won't most likely be used as an actual PA.

 

 

Um, if you don't plan on using it for anything but a bass amp, why not just buy a bass amp? Seems to make more sense to me...

 

And if you do want a bass amp, since it seems like you're a Line 6 fan, the LowDown series is fantastic. Personally, I like the LD150, because it's small and tilts back, but they're all great. You might think about trying one out. The small one should be loud enough (in my opinion), but if not, the bigger ones get very loud, and they all sound great.

 

I you still just wanted a power amp, you could go with a QSC RMX or something, but I'd recommend running it into a real bass cabinet. If you bougt a PA speaker, you'd be paying for things you don't need, like a large HF driver/horn when you really just need a small one. The Hartke VX410 is just over $300, and is a great sounding cabinet for its size and weight.

 

I think you might be trying to overcomplicate things, when all you really need is a decently priced bass amp. That's my opinion, anyway, for whatever that's worth.

[Mind Riot]

I did state that I was also planning to use it for my guitar PODxt, which introduces the need for more flat, full range amplification.

[Singin' Dave]

I you were just looking at running your guitar --> POD --> PA speaker, I'd say get a powered speaker and your on the right track.

 

However, bass aplification is a whole 'nother deal. To keep up with a drum kit on bass, you need properly voiced speakers and more wattage, i.e. a powered speaker AND a powered sub (bass frequencies would hit BOTH of these spectrums). In this case and given your budget, it looks like a cheap bass amp and another cheap guitar amp is really the way to go here.

[Riffi]

Try out the Crate Power Block 150. This amp really kicks and sounds great on any plain old guitar or bass cab.

[Mind Riot]

Originally posted by Singin' Dave I you were just looking at running your guitar --> POD --> PA speaker, I'd say get a powered speaker and your on the right track. However, bass aplification is a whole 'nother deal. To keep up with a drum kit on bass, you need properly voiced speakers and more wattage, i.e. a powered speaker AND a powered sub (bass frequencies would hit BOTH of these spectrums). In this case and given your budget, it looks like a cheap bass amp and another cheap guitar amp is really the way to go here.

 

But don't a lot of bands run the bass direct into the PA? It would seem a PA cab with a 15" and horn driven by ample power would have enough low end kick to keep up with a drummer to me.

 

I know I don't know as much about PA's as many people on this forum, but I thought PA speakers with 15's and horns were designed to amplify the whole frequency spectrum at relatively high volumes.

 

I don't want to be pushing for this option if it's against known wisdom, I just want to understand. There are a couple of appealing aspects to it which make me continue to consider it: one, a Peavey PA speaker with a 15 and horn can be had new for less than $200 whereas bass cabs are more spendy, and two, I could potentially use this cab for my guitar POD as well, and vocals or acoustic guitar if need be.

 

So I don't want to disrespect the knowledge of everyone on here, I just don't understand why a 15" PA speaker with plenty of power wouldn't work when it's ostensibly designed to cover the whole spectrum. Please don't hurt me, I genuinely want to learn.

[Rbts]

You are not wrong... A bass guitar through a pod through a full range PA speaker will work. It is not a bad solution, and everything else held constant, having a PA set up around is more versatile than have a bass amp around.

 

It is may not quite as efficient?

 

A PA cabinet is designed to carry everything. A bass cabinet is designed to carry just the bass guitar.

 

Chances are the PA cabinet will have "resources" that are not being used to run a bass guitar.... so some of it's "capacity" will be setting empty.. which is not efficient.

 

On the other hand, some other night, you are wanting to run an acoustic guitar and vocal through something, having a little PA set up would be just the ticket eh?

 

You seem to be leaning in this direction.

 

The whole question ends up with whether what you get will work for you, which if the task at hand is to bring the bass in line with the acoustic drums, the question is will it be loud enough (and still sound good fo course).

 

Maybe take you bass and your pod down to the music store, and try running through some powered PA cabinets like someone else said. Cabinets with a 15 and a horn are possible, or even 1`2's with a horn in some cases.

 

I have Yorkville NX 550P powered cabinets, and I have run a bass guitar through a Sans Amp Basss Driver preamp and into one of these and it sounds good. They cost liek about $ 700. To really keep up with a rock drummer though it would take two of them.

 

Good luck.

[twostone]

You wouldn't bring a knife to a gun fight why you want to get a PA just for a bass POD. You can pick up bass amp dirt cheap nowadays as same for guitar amps. Most bass guitar that are running thru a PA system consist of having subs with a x-over for the tops so alot of the bass are coming thru the subs. Which some bands don't have subs and still run their bass DI thru their PA system but they just don't pack a punch like the bands with the sub system.. If I were you since you live in apartments I would invest in a good head phone amp and good headphones. I know I use to live in apartments and that's our our band use to pratice to keep from getting kicked out we also had electric drums thank god for those. Good luck and peace out.

[Craig Vecchione]

Originally posted by Mind Riot I did state that I was also planning to use it for my guitar PODxt, which introduces the need for more flat, full range amplification.

 

Actually a guitar speaker is not designed for flat response.

 

Your budget, regardless of which way you spend it, is not sufficient for any bass rig capable of keeping up with a hard-hitting drummer, let alone anything that will do double-duty on guitar as well. I play every week with a drummer who's not loud at all and I know just how much volume is needed to keep pace.

[StratKat]

You will have some difficulty onstage hearing your bass, or guitar, unless you have really good monitors. The mains set up for almost all bands in front of the band. Not behind them. So your sound (whichever instrument or pod you use) will be shot out in front of you and you wont hear it well at all.

 

If your drummer was using an electric set where the volume was going to be low then perhaps he could play soft enough to set the entire PA behind you. But for most of us that aint the case. So if the drummer plays loud, then everyone plays loud and you end up with feedback because the mains are behind the band.

 

Soooo you will still need additional speakers as in monitors or a bass amp to hear yourself well. And unless you use BIG monitors and lots of power through them your bass will sound sort of anemic at volume.

 

I like the pods alot more than i used too now that they have it in a floor model. And a friend wants me to switch to one with a JBL eon powered monitor as a reference speaker and run the other out to the PA for church gigs. Ive heard him with a similar arrangement in clubs and he sounds great. But he plays with tracks at a very low volume.

 

When he took his pod and a JBL 15 to a jam his tone and volume were lost to the other real amps that were there.

 

So all in all i would say that if you are going to play against real amps use a real amp. And if you and the others are disciplined enough (pros) to play at very low levels then the pod would work. But for bass you will most likely need an additional speaker so you might as well buy a small 15" bass amp AND run your two lines out of the pod to the PA and to the small amp.

[Mind Riot]

 

Originally posted by Craigv Actually a guitar speaker is not designed for flat response.

 

 

I know that, I was referring to using a full range system for amplifying the PODxt's simulation of a guitar cab as well as the bass guitar without adding it's own coloration as a strictly bass or guitar cab would.

 

I've got to be honest, I don't know where this dirt cheap bass amplification everyone is talking about can be found. All the bass stuff I'm looking at is pretty spendy, and a solid power amp and some decent PA speakers seems to be cheaper. Am I looking in the wrong places?

[StratKat]

Yeahhhhh... Cheap is something each of us defines differently.... So good luck to ya!

[soul-x]

 

Originally posted by Mind Riot I've got to be honest, I don't know where this dirt cheap bass amplification everyone is talking about can be found. All the bass stuff I'm looking at is pretty spendy, and a solid power amp and some decent PA speakers seems to be cheaper. Am I looking in the wrong places?

 

 

I think you'll find that both MI sound reinforcement gear and bass gear are in fairly competitive markets with moderate profit margins. The price to manufacture and support good quality speaker enclusures and amplification for each is about the same.

 

I believe you will have to make your decision based on other criteria than price.

[twostone]

What's your buget that might weigh the pro's against the cons on deciding which would work better for you.

[Rick6]

My contribution to this thread will be to say that I just tried to put together a simple PA system for guitar and effects device, and failed to get a good sound.

 

There was nothing wrong with the PA, and nothing wrong with the effects device, but getting them to work together turned out to require some additional equipment to match levels and impedance. And, even then, I liked my guitar amps better.

 

So, my advice is, don't assume anything and be sure to try it out at full volume -- in exactly the way you intend to use it - before you buy.

 

Good luck,

 

Rick