dbx 266XL vs. 166XL

[Majoria]

Looking for a little feedback as to these units. Our band currently uses a basic PA setup and plays in low volume settings (drums completely unmiked and using cool rods, etc). We currently have no compressor, limiter, or gate for any channel nor do we have any eq on the mains - this is what I mean by low volume and basic. While the output sound is fine, there is a volume balance I'd like to address, mainly on the singer. He's got great projection and I need to keep his high volume down and boost the low volume, hence the obvious need for a compressor. Given our small setup and such, would the 266XL do us fine? Is the 166XL that much better? I'd like to compress another channel besides the vocal, such as the acoustic guitar, to better balance it. I don't see us as needing the 166XL as the 266 on paper appears to be all we need. Any thoughts? I was also told about the Alesis 3630 from one local store but as I see the vast majority here think of that as taboo.

 

Details of the rest of the system:

Mackie 1604VLZ

QSC RMX1450 (usually perform at -16)

Yamaha BR15's

Lexicon MX200

[bigmike216]

The 266XL is just fine

[where02190]

Either, used properly, will accomplish what you need.

[tubedude]

I have the 166. One used on the bass drum and snare and the other used on my vocal and a female vocalist. All through the channel inserts of the mixer. No complaints. Works great.

[meblumen]

Honestly, I think the 266 makes a fine door stop. As far as sound goes I think it's a piss poor compressor. I have never used the 166 but haven't heard rave reviews about it either. I'm much more of a studio guy then live sound but as far as budget comps go get an RNC and run it on super nice mode on the singers vox. Another option is the dbx 160 series. You could pick up a pair of used 160x's or xt's pretty cheap. I'm not a fan of the 3630 but blacklion audio used to do a mod that everyone raved about. Usually 3630s are really cheap used, maybe you could get one and mod it up for reasonably cheap.

[bigmike216]

 

Originally posted by meblumen Honestly, I think the 266 makes a fine door stop. As far as sound goes I think it's a piss poor compressor. I have never used the 166 but haven't heard rave reviews about it either. I'm much more of a studio guy then live sound but as far as budget comps go get an RNC and run it on super nice mode on the singers vox. Another option is the dbx 160 series. You could pick up a pair of used 160x's or xt's pretty cheap. I'm not a fan of the 3630 but blacklion audio used to do a mod that everyone raved about. Usually 3630s are really cheap used, maybe you could get one and mod it up for reasonably cheap.

 

 

 

I'm going to have to disagree with you.. There was either something wrong with the 266xl you tried, or it was being used incorrectly.. There's no way to Alesis is better sounding than the 266XL.

[agedhorse]

Originally posted by where02190 Either, used properly, will accomplish what you need.

Agreed, both are very serviceable units.

[meblumen]

 

Originally posted by bigmike216 I'm going to have to disagree with you.. There was either something wrong with the 266xl you tried, or it was being used incorrectly.. There's no way to Alesis is better sounding than the 266XL.

 

 

I don't think a stock 3630 would be better than a 266 or 166. I have HEARD that a modded 3630 makes a significant improvement. One that would make it a superior comp to the 266 and 166. However, I have never used a modded one so I cannot vouch for the quality of the altered comp. Furthermore, there was nothing wrong with the 266xl I used (I've actually used a several and briefly owned one). I just didn't like it. I thought the sound quality was rather lacking and the built in gate was useless. IMHO while there is some great cheap gear available, in this case you get what you pay for. Also, like I said, I am a studio guy not a live sound guy so feel free to take my opinion with a grain of salt.

[Majoria]

I'm not stuck on the 266XL, just that it appears to be the best bang for the buck. I don't hear much sound degradation difference between lower end and higher end comps for the most part, I'm guessing that's more of a studio thing than a live one.

 

So a question for the pros: other than sound quality, what's the advantage of a high end comp/gate over a lower end one? Part of my reason for asking is that I've mainly used comps for volume and projection control and it appears that some (especially studio) use it for tone changes as well.

[IsildursBane]

 

Originally posted by Majoria I'm not stuck on the 266XL, just that it appears to be the best bang for the buck. I don't hear much sound degradation difference between lower end and higher end comps for the most part, I'm guessing that's more of a studio thing than a live one.

 

 

IME, it depends on how hard you hit them. Spend some time with one of those Behringer Composer units and then switch to a DBX 160A. You can slam the piss out of a vocal w/ the 160 and still have it sound good. Try that with the Behringer and it'll sound like the guy's singing into a pillow.

 

 

So a question for the pros: other than sound quality, what's the advantage of a high end comp/gate over a lower end one? Part of my reason for asking is that I've mainly used comps for volume and projection control and it appears that some (especially studio) use it for tone changes as well.

 

 

Other than sound quality? What else is there?

 

Reliability and in the live world, weight and size. Except for reliability, I wouldn't attach a price tag to any of those.

 

For your purposes, an RNC ($175 new) or a DBX 160 series ($175-$250 used) would be fine.

 

-Dan.

[Black Frog]

Agreed. We've been lucky enough to aquire some Drawmer 241 and 251 comps, and I'm amazed at how much they can squash something and still sound really good. Cheapo comps can't compete with that.

[agedhorse]

Sometimes reputation and perceived sound quality can be based on nothing related to the actual units being discussed.

 

Something else regarding hitting a comp hard... if the curve and delta G indicators are scaled in a "certain" way, it can appear that you are compressing harder than you actually are. Exactly the same thing can be said about overloading certain British mic preamps... they still sound "really good" when driven really hard BUT the input clip meters are scaled so you really aren't clipping the preamp when the LED's say you are.

 

There is a lot of psychoacoustics involved in the design and positioning of a product's features. In some cases, this makes a product appear to do something that it doesn't in fact do.

[IsildursBane]

 

Originally posted by agedhorse Sometimes reputation and perceived sound quality can be based on nothing related to the actual units being discussed. Something else regarding hitting a comp hard... if the curve and delta G indicators are scaled in a "certain" way, it can appear that you are compressing harder than you actually are. Exactly the same thing can be said about overloading certain British mic preamps... they still sound "really good" when driven really hard BUT the input clip meters are scaled so you really aren't clipping the preamp when the LED's say you are. There is a lot of psychoacoustics involved in the design and positioning of a product's features. In some cases, this makes a product appear to do something that it doesn't in fact do.

 

 

Do you know anything about the particulars of the products I've mentioned? Because I'm not a big fan of my senses & my gear playing tricks on me and I'd love to know if I should believe what I'm seeing.

 

I don't have experience with a wide variety of gear, but with the comps I've used more than a few times (Behringer Composer, Symetrix CL-150, DBX 160X/A) there seems to be a big gap in the performance of these models.

 

According to the LED's, the Composer gets noticeably muddier (when used on vocals anyways) after you get past a 3:1 ratio and ~3dB of gain reduction. Assuming the LED's are correct, that's fairly light compression.

 

The Symetrix and especially the DBX units remain clearer, to my ears, when (at least according to the LED's) they're working harder.

 

-Dan.

[agedhorse]

I haven't experienced a huge difference, but note that the gain reduction scale on the 160's (and UREI equiv.) are very expanded so you may be seeing more than you are hearing, and I do not know how accurate the metering really is.

 

Also, the knee in the curve is somewhat softer on the 160's, which was seen as a problem by some but in wonderment by others.

 

I don't have any experience w/ the Symmetrix unit, but the dual 1/3 octave eq seemed to be a good performer.

[Majoria]

I've checked into some used gear and see some 160X's and a few 160A's. What's the difference? It appears the A replaced the X but I also read where some prefer the older 160 series units. What are the various 160 series units recently produced and their pros/cons?

[kevinnem]

 

Originally posted by agedhorse Sometimes reputation and perceived sound quality can be based on nothing related to the actual units being discussed. .... There is a lot of psychoacoustics involved in the design and positioning of a product's features. In some cases, this makes a product appear to do something that it doesn't in fact do.

 

 

I think a certine company that makes thing like bass heads and combo amps and stuff like that - should add a feature on to their products, .. so that when you hit say -15 db on the input a HUGE *BLUE* LED blinks at you.

 

This led would have text below it and be labled "FAT" on the bass amps, and "LOUD" or "sweet" on the gutiar amps.

 

For an extra 50$ you can get the gutiar amp that has a "WARM" LED.

 

 

what do you think?

[agedhorse]

[meblumen]

 

Originally posted by Majoria I've checked into some used gear and see some 160X's and a few 160A's. What's the difference? It appears the A replaced the X but I also read where some prefer the older 160 series units. What are the various 160 series units recently produced and their pros/cons?

 

 

 

I'm at work so I can't go into details but you had the 160VU (which has VU meters hence the name). It was ptp, used a slightly different circut (different vca ?s) etc... Next up was the 160x and then the 160 xt which are the same except the 160x has barrier strip terminals and the xt has xlr plugs. The newest version and the only one you can buy new is the 160a. There have been some design and component revisions over the years. The 160VUs are certainly cool but way overpriced. The 160as are fine but I don't think the quality of construction is as good as the 160xs and xt's which can be had for a bit less.

[agedhorse]

 

Originally posted by meblumen It was ptp...

 

I don't think so... circuit boards were used on all DBX products that I have ever worked on

[meblumen]

 

Originally posted by agedhorse I don't think so... circuit boards were used on all DBX products that I have ever worked on

 

 

I could be mistaken, but am pretty sure. I'll have to take a peak inside one in the near future. I do know they were designed and manufactured in the early 70's when DBX IMHO was a much different company.

 

Regardless, both the 160VU and 160x/xt are great comps, and are infinitly better than a 166 or 266 or 1066 or any of the crap they are pushing at banjo mart.

[agedhorse]

I woudn't characterize any of those comps as infinately better. I have owned and used all of them and they are all very good products for their intended applications. Note the price difference between the products.

 

I personally think the 160 platform has some unjustified mistique, it's a good comp but certainly not infinately better than the others. Sometimes products get a certain cultish following that results from warm and fuzzy feelings of a different time.

[Majoria]

Thanks for the info. I can get a 160A new for $400 and a pair of 160X's are going for $357 on ebay right now and I can't find one at a local store as I'd prefer.

 

160X on eBay

 

The price seems fair for a pair of 160X's but am still looking for some to hear before buying the same ones.

[JIM683]

I have both currently and work fine for live use when set properly. There are many better comps out there, but for the money these are fine.

 

I have heard some very good reviews on the new TC Electronic C300 compressor. You may want to look at it also. I have not used it yet, but plan on getting one sometime next year

[meblumen]

 

Originally posted by agedhorse I woudn't characterize any of those comps as infinately better. I have owned and used all of them and they are all very good products for their intended applications. Note the price difference between the products. I personally think the 160 platform has some unjustified mistique, it's a good comp but certainly not infinately better than the others. Sometimes products get a certain cultish following that results from warm and fuzzy feelings of a different time.

 

 

I'm sorry but I have a strong dislike of the 166 & 266. I just feel for the price, there are much better alternatives. Hell, if they cost a 1/4 of what they do, I still would be hard pressed to find a use for them. And I don't think the 160's are hyped up by the general recording (or live sound) community beyond what they should be. People always talk about 1176s, distressors, even RNC before mention of 160's come into play. Personally I think they are some of the most versatile comps (160x, xt, a). They can lightly tame something or squash it, work well on almost any application and the fact that you can get a pair for roughly $400 used is a great deal. Yes they are a bit more, but I'm a big fan of do it once and do it right. Buying crap to save some $ will only take you on a long road of buyer's remorse and will cost you more in the long run. I'm not one to blindly agree with the popular crowd, but I think there is a reason almost every studio worth a damn has atleast a pair in their racks. Just my 2 cents.

[agedhorse]

At their time, the 160's were an excellent performer in comparison to what were competitors in that price rance. There are a lot of very decent models being made today for less than 1/2 or 1/4 of what the 160's went for new. Used... is another story though, with the move towards DAW's in the studio, there is a flood of good quality gear coming to market and the prices are of course depressed.