couple of PA q's from a PA newbie

[MattM3]

Ok, here's what I have;

 

2x Behringer B212A Powered Speakers (450w each)

Yamaha MG10/2 mixer

Alesis reverb

 

I've used it a few times for my solo act consisting of vocals and acoustic/electric (plugged straight into the board). Sometimes I mic the guitar though, or use two other mics for audience members to play tambourine, shaker, sing along, etc. Sometimes I use one speaker on a pole and the other as monitor or I'll use both as mains and borrow another powered speaker for a monitor.

 

Very simple, small venues, no more than 50 loud people.

 

Hope that's all the relevant information. Here are my questions.

 

1. In setting up the monitor mix on the individual channels, I have been following the manual, start with setting the gain to just below clip then adjust the channel fader to the right level. Someone (a sound "expert") suggested I just peg the gain pot to 10 and control everything from the channel fader. This doesn't seem to make sense to me. I haven't tried it but I don't think it would work. Comments?

 

2. On the back of the powered speakers, there are a few pots. One is "level" and on one side it's marked for "line" signals and the other for "mic" signals. But basically it acts as a volume pot and there seems to be nothing that separates one side from the other. So there are two ways I've set this up. Way one is this; I set up all my levels on the mixer so the master is just below clip, then turn on the speaker, then raise the speaker level to an appropriate level for the venue. Second way, I start with the speaker level in the middle, right at the mark between line and mic (no reason for choosing the middle, the volume just sounds good at that level). Then I adjust the volume at the master fader. Which one is right? I've heard you can under-drive an amp, is it possible to do this to a powered speaker? If so, where should I be adjusting the level so I'm not under/over driving the powered speaker?

 

The manuals for both the mixer and speakers don't really address this. Or I should say the speaker manual is lacking. The Yamaha manual tells how to do it right but I had that suggestion...

 

So, I'd appreciate any comments or assistance.

 

Thanks

[king claw]

I'll take a crack at this. No expert by any means. First, I do not believe you will ever push this system to its max with what music your doing.

 

 

1. In setting up the monitor mix on the individual channels, I have been following the manual, start with setting the gain to just below clip then adjust the channel fader to the right level. Someone (a sound "expert") suggested I just peg the gain pot to 10 and control everything from the channel fader. This doesn't seem to make sense to me. I haven't tried it but I don't think it would work. Comments?

The Manual is right on setting gain just below clip. This will give you the maximum signal to noise input level.

 

 

2. On the back of the powered speakers, there are a few pots. One is "level" and on one side it's marked for "line" signals and the other for "mic" signals. But basically it acts as a volume pot and there seems to be nothing that separates one side from the other. So there are two ways I've set this up. Way one is this; I set up all my levels on the mixer so the master is just below clip, then turn on the speaker, then raise the speaker level to an appropriate level for the venue. Second way, I start with the speaker level in the middle, right at the mark between line and mic (no reason for choosing the middle, the volume just sounds good at that level). Then I adjust the volume at the master fader. Which one is right? I've heard you can under-drive an amp, is it possible to do this to a powered speaker? If so, where should I be adjusting the level so I'm not under/over driving the powered speaker?

The manual suggests using either a 1/4" STEREO JACK (Line input) or and XLR mic cable (Mic) but never both. These are you're choices for input to the speaker. Then you have a Gain (Volume control) and a high and low EQ. With a mixing board I would run all of these straight up unless you're to loud or were limited with mixing range on the faders of the mixing board. Don't worry about over/under driving these speakers. They are perfectly matched with the attached amps.

 

Again, I'm no expert so I hope someone else chimes in! How do the speakers sound??? How about gain before feedback???

[GCDEF]

1) The sound "expert" is an idiot.

[king claw]

 

Today 05:48 PM GCDEF 1) The sound "expert" is an idiot.

 

Yikes. I guess English is your second language. Just trying to help someone out (unlike someone else)

[GCDEF]

 

Yikes. I guess English is your second language. Just trying to help someone out (unlike someone else)

 

 

Why would you guess that? My comment wasn't addressed to you, so I don't understand your response.

[tlbonehead]

Yikes. I guess English is your second language. Just trying to help someone out (unlike someone else)

I'm pretty sure that G was referring to the "expert" who suggested diming the gain knob and controlling the volume just at the fader. That's pretty idiotic, don't ya think?

[flanc]

suggested I just peg the gain pot to 10 and control everything from the channel fader.

 

GCDEF was talking about that sound "expert"....your expertise was right on.

[king claw]

Sorry GCDEF. I didn't take my med's today.

[tlbonehead]

Sorry GCDEF. I didn't take my med's today.

Did you take someone else's?

[bassred]

I took your meds, great stuff!!!

[MattM3]

Thanks King Claw, for the advice. And thanks the rest of you for the levity.

 

I figured that the gain pot thing was wrong since I figured that if you pegged the gain pot, it would constantly clip no matter what you did with the channel fader.

 

On the speaker end though, I'm curious why you say run the level straight up the middle. I get the equalizer pots being in the middle (they have a detent to hold them in the middle anyway).

 

But on the level pot, it acts like a volume switch. So theoretically, supposing I'm using the line in (not the xlr/mic in) from the board and I have the board level out maxed to below clip, I could then max the speaker level to below clip (it has a clip light also), even though it crosses into the mic side of the input level. This would give me the maximum amount of volume out of this system.

 

Anyway, just some comments, maybe no real question. Comments or answers welcome though. Thanks again Claw.

[Rbts]

But on the level pot, it acts like a volume switch. So theoretically, supposing I'm using the line in (not the xlr/mic in) from the board and I have the board level out maxed to below clip, I could then max the speaker level to below clip (it has a clip light also), even though it crosses into the mic side of the input level. This would give me the maximum amount of volume out of this system

 

This I believe is essentially correct, and would be a quite acceptable way to opperate your system.

 

That level knob that acts like a volume control is essentially a gain control for the input stage of the amp in your powered speaker (I think), and just as you set the gain for the inputs on your mixer to just below clipping (distorting), you would maximize your volume by running with this stage just under clipping too.

 

Generally the level of signal; that a mic sends to something (like your powered speaker), is a little less than the level that is normally called a line level input, so they are sort of roughing in where you are likely to be setting that knob, depending on what you are inputting to it... or suggeswting where you would likely want to turn the knob to.

 

Does that make any sense?

[GCDEF]

 

Sorry GCDEF. I didn't take my med's today.

 

 

No problem. I was indeed referring to item number one in the original post, but was too tired to type up a more detailed reply.

[Craig Vecchione]

Use the XLR input. The level control is set up so that the left half..from 6 to 12-o'clock, will attenuate line level signals (what you've got from your mixer output), and the right half..from 12 to 6-o'clock is for using a mic plugged directly into the speaker.

 

Set the mixer levels as the mixer manual suggests. Keep the mixer meters...both when used for individual channel gain, and for total mix output, so that peaks will go into the 'yellow' +4db area, and never into the red clip zone. Set the speaker's level control so that its clip light doesn't flash on peaks. That's about all you need to do.

[MattM3]

Thanks again for all the help. This tracks with what I was thinking.

 

And to answer the first question, the speakers sound great. I haven't had any feedback issues. Then again everywhere I've used them has had enough room to keep the speakers far enough in front of the mic. When I use them as monitors, no issue there either.

 

Overall I think it turned out to be a nice set up. I was looking for something fairly cheap for some light sound reinforcement. I didn't want to go the powered mixer route in case I want to expand in the future. Also the mixer seems to be good for other things like recording. Can't beat it at $200 a speaker with free shipping from Musician's Friend.

 

Thanks again all.

[ImpaledRound]

I'm actually thinking of buying almost this exact setup, save for maybe a behringer xenyx instead of the yam mixer. Any idea how it would perform with a keyboard? That would be its primary use so it needs to be pretty good for my yamaha p140 stage keyboard. Having said that I'm in full time education so money is tight

[Craig Vecchione]

I'm actually thinking of buying almost this exact setup, save for maybe a behringer xenyx instead of the yam mixer. Any idea how it would perform with a keyboard? That would be its primary use so it needs to be pretty good for my yamaha p140 stage keyboard. Having said that I'm in full time education so money is tight

 

I've read so many comments, and seen so many store demos, of Behringer mixers with failed channels, that I would be reluctant to spend my money there. The Yamaha MG is a known reliable unit. Similar to it with easily as good reliability is the Peavey PV series. The chances are pretty good that all three will 'sound' about the same.

[congaron]

My behringer ub1202fx has gigged (recieving positive comments on the sound), been experimented with (fooling around with electret mikes for instrument and vocal use..phantom and battery powered), dropped on the floor from tripping on the chord (don't ask), been used as a submixer for scratch track recording my band, and been left on for over a week at a time during busy times of the above activities (including power brownouts and outages where it wnt off and back on )....for the last year. It has no feature that is not working exactly as the manual states. Everything is nice and tight, quiet, and working correctly. All the jacks are tight and working. I do run the pots up and down about once a week even if nothing is plugged in there to keep them wiped internally.

 

I can't speak for the xenyx units, but the Ub1202fx is good in my experience.

 

God bless!

 

-Ron

[ImpaledRound]

Thanks for the advice Craigv and congaron re: Behringer mixers; I guess I'll have to try some out myself.

 

Have people tried keyboards through these b212a speakers? Just if I don't get the chance to have a test run....

[6Imzadi]

Try them out at GC with a CD you bring of key music.

[soul-x]

 

My behringer ub1202fx has gigged (recieving positive comments on the sound), been experimented with (fooling around with electret mikes for instrument and vocal use..phantom and battery powered), dropped on the floor from tripping on the chord (don't ask), been used as a submixer for scratch track recording my band, and been left on for over a week at a time during busy times of the above activities (including power brownouts and outages where it wnt off and back on )....for the last year. It has no feature that is not working exactly as the manual states. Everything is nice and tight, quiet, and working correctly. All the jacks are tight and working. I do run the pots up and down about once a week even if nothing is plugged in there to keep them wiped internally. I can't speak for the xenyx units, but the Ub1202fx is good in my experience. God bless! -Ron

 

 

I also have a Behringer UB mixer -- a 1204-Pro. It was given to me by a buddy who was completely fed up with it. It never left its cozy spot in his home studio where it received occasional use. One channel is dead and the left main-out is deep six.

 

It doesn't really matter to me since I merely use it as a preamp for a Speaker Workshop setup. It does that job fine. A mission critical situation? No way.