Need advise on set up for Live Performances

[cc999]

Need advise from the experts. Here is what I have:

 

2 - Yamaha MSH 400 powered speakers as PA

1 - Behringer EUROLIVE B212A Active Loudspeaker as stage monitor

1 - Sure Beta 58a mic

1 - Sure SM 57 mic

Yamaha mixer (not powered)

 

My question is this.

1 - How far in front of the band should the 2 Yamaha powered Speakers be? I want to avoid Feedback but be able to crank it up.

 

2 - The Behringer EUROLIVE B212A Active Loudspeaker as the stage monitor, should I place this in front of the 2 singers or behind them just in front of the drummer? Shoud I raise it on a amp stand for better directed sound?

 

Thanks in advance for your help, have practic this afternoon and want to see if I can set it up like you wold suggest.

 

Charlie

[Rbts]

One of the main considerations regarding speaker placement is as your question alludes... feedback... which happens when the sound from speakers is picked up by a microphone (or other audio pickup) and then the sound is returned to the amp, further amplified, picked up again in the microphone, again returned, again further amplified, and culminates in a loud piercing squeal or a low thundering rumble.

 

The issue is the same for the FOH speakers (front of house) as it is for the monitor... which is keeping things set up so that feedback doesn't happen.

 

You can imagine drawing an imagainary line across the microphones that will be used... generally, keeping your FOH speakers out in front of this imaginary line by a foot or two or three will be enough....

 

With your monitors, generally, they are placed in front of the singers, on the floor, pointing up at their heads. In this way, the speakers are pointed at the back of the microphones, where generally they pick up "less".

 

Putting the monitors back by the drummer and pointed at the singers would also be pointing the speakers "into" the microphones, and would be more likely to induce feedback probably.

 

It is all trial and error. Different microphones have different pickup patterns, which I do not know the details of. Regarding mics, one of their individual characteristics is their GBF which is "gain before feedback", and generally, better mics can get louder before feeding back. Your mics are pretty good ones.

[lifeloverwg]

 

Need advise from the experts. Here is what I have: 2 - Yamaha MSH 400 powered speakers as PA 1 - Behringer EUROLIVE B212A Active Loudspeaker as stage monitor 1 - Sure Beta 58a mic 1 - Sure SM 57 mic Yamaha mixer (not powered) My question is this. 1 - How far in front of the band should the 2 Yamaha powered Speakers be? I want to avoid Feedback but be able to crank it up. 2 - The Behringer EUROLIVE B212A Active Loudspeaker as the stage monitor, should I place this in front of the 2 singers or behind them just in front of the drummer? Shoud I raise it on a amp stand for better directed sound? Thanks in advance for your help, have practic this afternoon and want to see if I can set it up like you wold suggest. Charlie

 

 

Here's a couple of places to start for good basic PA setup and advice.

This is good basic setup tutorial that should get you off on the right foot and there is an associated forum with a small but solid group of users for further advice.http://members.cox.net/pasystem1/

 

Yorkville has good downloadable stuff here. http://yorkville.com/default.asp?p1=6&p2=70&p_id=117

That should give you plenty to get started and then come on back with specific questions that arise.

 

Good luck, Winston.

[cc999]

Thanks for the replies, unfortunatly the Scotts PA page makes no mention of a setup with powered speakers. Is there a site with that info??

 

Charlie

[lifeloverwg]

Thanks for the replies, unfortunatly the Scotts PA page makes no mention of a setup with powered speakers. Is there a site with that info?? Charlie

RTFM!!

Read the fine manual. If you don't have a manual, google is your friend. While I don't find the exact model you list, the manual for the Yamaha MSR400 gives you very clear examples and is available here. http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/downloads/manuals/index.html

 

No more spoon feeding, use your fork and knife.

Winston

[tlbonehead]

Thanks for the replies, unfortunatly the Scotts PA page makes no mention of a setup with powered speakers. Is there a site with that info?? Charlie

Why would it matter whether the power amp was inside the speaker or elsewhere when figuring out how to set the speakers geographically?

[cc999]

I thought it would make a difference if the amplifier was housed inside the speaker as opposed to a seperate amp for feedback purposes.

[abzurd]

 

I thought it would make a difference if the amplifier was housed inside the speaker as opposed to a seperate amp for feedback purposes.

 

 

Why would you think this?

 

Anyway, unless you're just figuring out how to set up for a show, don't set up for practice like you would for a show. Taking 2/3 of your speakers, placing them in front of the band, but pointed away to "the audience" (which in this case I'm assuming is a wall about 5-10 ft away) and cranking them up up will not only make a muddy mess, but will pretty much guarantee feedback problems.

 

For practices use all 3 speakers as monitors.

 

1 - Put 2 speakers on the floor in front of the microphone stands and pointed toward the mics (well the people standing behind the mics). Like you've probably seen on TV 1000 times. Put 3rd back by the drummer. As long as it's not pointing into a micrphone you're good.

 

2 - Don't just "crank it"! get the volume only as loud as you need it to be. Unfortunately you'll likely hit feedback before it's as loud as you'd like it to be. If you have an EQ (better yet, one for each monitor) then you can "notch out" the feedback by adjustsing the EQ. You can then turn it up again until the feedback comes back, then back off until it's gone.

 

3 - THIS IS YOU MAX PRACTICE VOLUME. The rest is up to your fellow musicians. If the guitar player wants to stomp all over it with a half stack cranked to 11 because that's the only way he gets "that crunchy tone he likes" then you're screwed. If the drummer tells you the only way he can play is by beating his drums with baseball bats, again screwed.

[cc999]

I appreciate the suggestions..........FYI where we practice is a room about

15x 35. After putting the speakers in front of the band there is still about 20 feet until a wall.

 

Charlie

[tlbonehead]

I appreciate the suggestions..........FYI where we practice is a room about 15x 35. After putting the speakers in front of the band there is still about 20 feet until a wall. Charlie

I thought this was for live performances, not just practice. Which is it?

[cc999]

I am trying to get the setup in practice to mimick live performance.

Live performances are in rooms twice as big and sometimes 4 times as big

 

Is this possible? Maybe the whole band at a slightly lower total volume?

Or am I having a pipe dream?

 

Thanks

Charlie

[Craig Vecchione]

 

I am trying to get the setup in practice to mimick live performance. Live performances are in rooms twice as big and sometimes 4 times as big Is this possible? Maybe the whole band at a slightly lower total volume? Or am I having a pipe dream? Thanks Charlie

 

 

There's not a lot of use in setting up for rehearsal the same way as for performance, at least in terms of the reinforcement system. The rooms will never be the same in size and especially acoustics. For rehearsal you typically would set up so that all of the speakers are facing the performers, so you can hear yourselves. You may not need to use all of them and sometimes can use just one. All depends what works best in the room and for your preferences.

 

For performance, the monitor would be set up so the lead singer can hear it best. Usually in front of the performer, facing the mic. Setting any speaker behind its source mic and facing it will greatly reduce gain before feedback.

[tlbonehead]

I am trying to get the setup in practice to mimick live performance. Live performances are in rooms twice as big and sometimes 4 times as big Is this possible? Maybe the whole band at a slightly lower total volume? Or am I having a pipe dream? Thanks Charlie

Is there a reason for wanting to practice this way? I don't see why you would want to.