I'm sure you all have had this experience-advice?

[Dogoth]

Yup I've been there (or to somewhere similar). I'd say you did as good of a job as you could given the circumstances. Your list of lessons learned shows a great attitude on your part.

When you're providing a free system at the last miniute the band pretty much gets what they get. As a full time monitor guy I've coped this attitude that if you want your guitar amp to be 123 db in your face then don't expect to hear your monitor (I make sure the offending musician understands that it's their problem and not mine). There is a maximum GBF available from the system I run and I'm pretty sure I've eeked out just about every last db of it so any expectation beyond that........ (my fave is the soft breathy girl who sings 16" off the mic with the animal drummer and the Marshall stacks who whines (in her breathy way) "I can't hear myself" (but I digress)).

As a rule I don't do chairity events (possibly a small local chairity). I've seen too many people making a lot of money from these so called "non-profit" events to want to give my time away (usualy the bigger the chairity the more likely it's been subverted into a "hidden profit" organization (nothing synical here)).

I like agedhorse's last reply. Anymore, the slightest whiff of BS in the air and I'm gone (my nose's gotten pretty sensative over the years (I'm betting your nose just got a bit more sensative as well :>)

In the end, Nobody died and tommorow will definatly be better.

[picker13]

This is one of the reasons our band doesn't do benefits. When we do agree, it's under very strict circumstances. Usually only for professionally run benefits, or for something special like someone we all know personally.

1) We usually demand that there be a PROFESSIONAL sound system and engineer.

2) If they need a sound system, they are welcome to rent ours and hire us to run the event. In they do, then we must be able to receive stage plots and other information from the bands playing, and be able to talk to everyone before the show to let them know what to bring and what to expect. And only planned "interruptions" for "announcements." We don't discount this.

3) MOST IMPORTANT: No hassle factor. That means set up when we were told we'd be able with all sound and power being available at that time, easy access to the stage (there WILL be a stage), easy parking, comp admissions, food, and drink; Adequate and SAFE stage power, if outdoors -- cover in case of inclimate weather, security (for people and equipment), No last minute changes, and no surprises. We let them know we will walk if there are ANY problems. It's just not worth the hassle!

You might say we are hard asses, but we've been "reamed" too many times to allow us to have soft ones!

[hornplayer]

I like agedhorse's last reply. Anymore, the slightest whiff of BS in the air and I'm gone (my nose's gotten pretty sensative over the years (I'm betting your nose just got a bit more sensative as well :>) In the end, Nobody died and tommorow will definatly be better.

 

 

I like it too. True wisdom.

Yes my nose sensitivity input has gone up by 15db minimum.

[guitarharv52]

On a similar note as charity.When I was playing more there was an almost constant barrage of people who wanted us to play at a "benefit".These were usually functions to raise money for someone who had large medical bills because they had no insurance,and once for a family who needed money to bury a family member who died.I have done some of them but always thought they wouldn't be in that position if they had a JOB.I am willing to help someone if they need it,but not if they sit back and let you do it all.

[jbutler1982]

If you're willing to massage the system a little bit, you can actually make quite a bit from doing charity events tax-wise. However, this requires experience, and for a small system operator it probably isn't cost effective after you pay the lawyer and accountant to set it up. Further, the smaller charities almost always haven't put in the legwork and expense to set themselves up as properly deductible-donatable entities. But for those of you who are a bit bigger, doing (and really "charging" hard) for charity events can get you a net tax savings if you do it right.

[B A Dman]

I have worked with a SR company that a friend was working with for some charity events. Basically the company took on students from the school as free hired help. And to teach them some things. Man did we learn....
We ran all the cables, placed speakers/monitors, etc...All the grunt work. But when we started getting yelled at by the so-called artists for not plugging in their mics, not placing the monitors where they liked them, my friend politely told them we were students working for free and were just following the stage plan. The artists response was an oldie but a goodie,"i don't give a flying ..... who or what they are, or who you are, ......."Most of the other artists performing were thanking us and my friend for helping this charity out.
Needless to say most of the bands had a killer sound, but some wound up using their own mics and pushing the monitors around the stage...the rest is feedback and not a good sound at all. I'm not saying my friend sabotaged their sound, he didn't do anything. They did it to themselves. He just never corrected them or the problems that they caused themselves.

[B A Dman]

And BTW I usually do 1 charity show a year. At first it was just run the rented or donated PA. I have done this charity for about 6-7 years now. And now I can donate my own PA for the show. Why, you may ask? The once a year show actually got me a respectable client base as a mixing/FOH engineer. I made money to invest in my own system and just giving back to the people who helped me get started.

Check it out, www.blankfest.com
Blankets for the Homeless of NYC

P.S. also because of this charity gig I am now working for 2 bands that are playing on the NYC Marathon route on 1st Ave bet. 85th/86th. So charity gigs aren't just for band exposure, you/your company gets it as well:D

[Bugzie]

Has anyone else just walked off? I did a charity event for a 6 band show. The first 5 bands had played and Ii have to admit I was already tired (very long day) The 6th band starts making some obscene demands and I just couldn't take it. I let the guitarist know in no uncertain terms that if he didn't like it, to just let me know and he could supply his own gear. Not 2 seconds later he starts giving me a load of crap. We had the gear loaded and packed in less than 30 minutes. The organizer gave me his full support.

[lifeloverwg]

As a general rule, we only do "free" charity gigs for organizations that the entire band wants to support and where a professional company is providing sound. If we are providing and/or it's a group that we have no real connection to we usually/may offer them a discounted price from our usual private function rates.

As always, some exceptions do apply.... Winston.

[agedhorse]

I have packed up only a couple of times in 30 years. When I have, it's been for very good reason. It really try hard not to do these kinds of events in the first place, it's easier to say no before booking the gig than after setting up.

[gspointer]

I think you did great. 1st, I doubt I would have let the others use my PA.

2nd. if I got any grief from them, I would give them one warning to back off or I would pull the plug.

Any more grief, and I would pull the plug.

 

I am curious what these guys use for PA, I suspect you have a reasonable monitor rig, maybe they just like to bitch.

 

Note: I am not, nor do I desire to be a provider. I have a nice PA my band uses, they are very appreciative of it. I helped a buddy once, the "talent" was bitching about the monitors, he was running them from FOH. The complaint was from lead vox, can't hear myself. The send on his strip and the aux out were all the way up. My buddy thought the monitor may be broken, I got up to it, and it freekin hurt. The lead Vox was louder than hell. To this day I don't know what that dudes issue was.

[W. M. Hellinger]

As I recall: I've stopped a show three times in the past 30+ years. All 3 times it was because of safety issues. Once it was because of a nasty thunderstorm bearing down fast on an outdoor event, once because of a crowd surge issue with the crowd mashing folks against the stage, and the last time was due to the building's floor and walls starting to exhibit structural failure due to a farily large crowd bouncing/jumping on the floor in unison. All three times I seemed to be the only one with the presence of mind to realize the severity of the situation and the only solution was to prematurely end the show (by turning off the sound gear), but with 20/20 hind-sight the event management later thanked me (after they got done being pissed off), didn't hold a grudge, and hired me back for other events.

I've never stopped a show because things were going badly (in my opinion); however, I have had to hold my hands behind my back a few times and just bit my lip... get through it, and chalk it up to experience. I always remember that body language can make the point very effectively of: If you don't like the current speed I'm moving, you're really not going to like my other speed.

And, I always remember that (especially) in the entertainment business, some of the folks involved partake (i.e.: after being absent for a few minutes, they have a completely different personality)... and it's an aspect of the business that you've just gotta learn how to roll with the punches to maintain your sanity and integrity.

[Unalaska]

Less money = more headache...

I'm about to do a charity gig where the pay is low. Since I'm barely making what I need to with a small PA I agreed. The band members I haven't seen in years and we've never played together but we're all good and met at college. Set lists have been worked out etc, I'll enjoy this show, well, the playing part anyway. The load in might end up being 100' on concrete from the parking lot to the stage. Handtruck time.

In the OP's situation you made the 1st mistake by agreeing (sp?) to be the PA provider. I like to follow the "worst band's PA gets used" model. Lemme essplain...

If your band rules and the other band sux. The other band can only sound "x" good thru either system. You band can sound "x" or "x+2" thru thier system and any equipment faults will lie only on thier system noticed by the volunteers (you opinion doesn't count here, only to determine who's stuff is worse and gets used). The other band WILL bitch in the amount "x" no matter what on you rig so use thiers. Your band will bitch in the amount of "x" or "x-2" but since you are pro it won't get back to the "promoter" how bad it was. In fact it won't have to because the ongoing feedback and power outages will make it obvious.

hope that helps

[Shaster]

hornplayer, I'm thinking if you were my neighbour I'd never have to buy another power tool:) Seriously, that was extremely nice of you to volunteer your gear (and go on first).

IMO at the first sign of trouble or disrespect, you should have called a short production meeting with the band. You could have then explained that you were donating your time, services and gear, and that they could take what they got or go home. You wouldn't have to be rude, just matter of fact. In this business, if you don't lay down the law right away, folks will walk all over you.

Assuming none of your gear was blown up, this was a relatively easy lesson learned - advance your gigs, spell out what you will or won't do, and explain (in advance) what compensation you'll need for various extra services - extra sets, mixing other bands, providing PA, tear down help, MC duties, and so on.

Kudos for not decking someone in the band!

EDIT:must have missed "page two" and post #22. Things seem to be well in hand.

[allexcosta]

I never did anything for free and never will. If it's a serious charity, a donation is as far as I go. Paid gigs are enough trouble.

[philw44]

In those situations you just have to be firm and spell it out. It's amazing what you can achieve with body language. Have authority, be 'the man'.

If your still not getting anywhere, i recommend some mind games - hit them where it hurts!

"Your stage volume is too loud, your vocalist won't be able to hear himself and could be singing out of tune"

"It sounds terrible out front, do you want the audience to think your bad?"

I've noticed as soon as your start mentioning how it might affect their 'performance' they sit up and listen. The downside is they might think your a complete tosser for a while - but that will change later when they realise the on stage sound is great and the audience complements the band on how good it sounds...


Last option is to resort to dirty tricks / lies. The guitar loud in the monitors as mentioned earlier is a pretty good one.

'The monitor system doesn't go any louder therefore you will have to turn down' works pretty well.

[Harmonycat]

I don't let anyone use my gear.

I would have started to take it all down right away. My experience with that kind of imposition has taught me to avoid it at all costs.

The answer to the "What are you doing question?" is easy.

"I have to get this stuff down and packed in half an hour. We have a to be at another gig in an hour and it's a half hour drive".

"Sorry, if you had told me before hand I would have advised you to tell the other band to bring their own PA, because we have another gig."

Then the problem lies with them and not me.

[Bugzie]

LMAO! As luck would have it, I have today off from my day job.. Just got a call from the director of the local NPO that I do support. Same event that I pulled the plug on. They recently built a new facility. Realy nice place for kids. Place is gorgeous and when I went to see it a couple of weeks ago I was amazed at the detail they put into the gymnasium. About the only thing hard in it is the floor. Accoustic cieling, carpeted walls, etc. here must have been 10 basketballs being bounced around and little if no echo. First thing out of his mouth was "We didn't invite "insert pain in the ass band name here". Would you be willing to do the grand opening? Like I said, I support this organization and said yes within a heartbeat. They even put a 50amp 220v outlet on each end of the gym per my suggestion.