Members MainEventSound Posted April 26, 2008 Members Share Posted April 26, 2008 What would you put in your Electrical Panel Tie-In Kit?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sharnrock Posted April 26, 2008 Members Share Posted April 26, 2008 square D QO/Cutler hammer breakers. Sqaure D seems pretty popular. Actually knowing what type of panel beforehand can make a huge difference. Flat head/phillips/square screwdriver and duck tape. Actually klein makes a 10in1 that has almost everything you need. Fortunately, I've never had to tie into a panel, but if I did that would probably be what I'd bring. What size wire would you be hooking up? You might end up needing some extra lugs and alan keys if it gets real big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted April 27, 2008 Members Share Posted April 27, 2008 Allen wrench set with 3/8" at least, meter, ground lugs, fuses of all types, various branch breakers, break-out tails that match your distro connector, various adaptor cables that match your cable connector type, copy of your insurance certificate, clamp on ammeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted April 27, 2008 Members Share Posted April 27, 2008 A electrician's license. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MainEventSound Posted April 27, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 27, 2008 There was an in-depth article in FOH magazine this month on "how to" tie in to panels and what to bring to do it. I was just curious if the answers I got here were at all close to the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted April 27, 2008 Members Share Posted April 27, 2008 Knowledge is probably one of the most important aspects of this. There are several inappropriate standards that appear in some commercial districts for 3 phase with 120 available as a center tapped deltawinding, and corner grounded, and you can not connect a distro to this configuration without understanding how it works and specifically what not to do and why it will not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sharnrock Posted April 27, 2008 Members Share Posted April 27, 2008 Knowledge is probably one of the most important aspects of this. There are several inappropriate standards that appear in some commercial districts for 3 phase with 120 available as a center tapped deltawinding, and corner grounded, and you can not connect a distro to this configuration without understanding how it works and specifically what not to do and why it will not work. Are you talking about the high leg? What do you mean by corner grounded? And what are break out tails? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted April 27, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted April 27, 2008 square D QO/Cutler hammer breakers. Sqaure D seems pretty popular. Actually knowing what type of panel beforehand can make a huge difference. Flat head/phillips/square screwdriver and duck tape. Actually klein makes a 10in1 that has almost everything you need. Fortunately, I've never had to tie into a panel, but if I did that would probably be what I'd bring. What size wire would you be hooking up? You might end up needing some extra lugs and alan keys if it gets real big. I would advise strongly against recommending *any* panelboard work. This is the domain of a qualified electrician, and even if you are, diving into an open venue's energized panel is still a no-no. I'm looking at this from the perspective of this being a public forum with unrestricted access, where unqualified and yes, even downright stupid people can get the wrong idea and hurt themselves or others. From your personal perspective, consider that you've left yourself wide open to a lawsuit if *anything* goes wrong in that business' electrical system. The words "tampering" and "negligence" will become very familiar terms.... I wold recommend amateur users only use plug-in power sources...if there's no receptacle, don't wire one in. On the other topic, I've got that Klein 10-in-1 driver and it's a really nice tool. That, a diagonal cutter and pair of pliers will let you do 90% of small wiring jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted April 27, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted April 27, 2008 Are you talking about the high leg? What do you mean by corner grounded? And what are break out tails? "corner grounded" is a delta 3ph having phase potential between all phases, and phase potential from A and C to ground, but 0v potential from B to ground. Break out tails are what you connect into a distro's branch circuits to provide power to stage, etc. Some distros may have Edison, or Twistlock, or Powercon, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted April 27, 2008 Members Share Posted April 27, 2008 Yes, corner grounded is "common" in industrial installations and can cause really odd readings if you are unaware of this configuration. Looks like an open terminal to ground with zero voltage. I have heard of folks assuming the grounded phase a nuetral... yikes. The real gottcha seems to be the 3 phase delta with the grounded center tapped leg, this leaves the third phase at a higher voltage which is called the high or stinger leg. Generally this is found in a 240 delta system, so 240 volts phase to phase with a 120 volt secondary component would automatically warn me of a high leg potential. There are other ways to derive 120/240 volts from 240 delts by using a transformer, but as Craig points out, you really need to know your stuff if you are going to work around this kind of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sonic Violence Posted April 28, 2008 Members Share Posted April 28, 2008 What would you put in your Electrical Panel Tie-In Kit?? In mine, I have the phone number to my IBEW friend, whom I hire to do any tie in, etc, whatsoever. (at a negotiated rate...LOL ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boomerweps Posted April 28, 2008 Members Share Posted April 28, 2008 There was an in-depth article in FOH magazine this month on "how to" tie in to panels and what to bring to do it. I was just curious if the answers I got here were at all close to the article. Mark Admunson (sp?) is usually spot on in his articles. And I suspect he has them reviewed for technical accuracy if there is ANY questions. Seems like a silly post reasoning. Asking on an open forum with a mix of technical and non-technical people. It's a matter of knowledge and safety. And where death can be involved, ANY forum posting is for merely educational purposes, not for a basis of action. Boomerweps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted April 28, 2008 Members Share Posted April 28, 2008 How come when asking several lawyers the same question or scenario you can often get different answers... or ask several engineers the same question and you get different answers. There are different ways to solve any problem and different approaches as well. I may carry tools and supplies different than others because I encounter different types of installations, or have slightly different applications. For example on power distribution installations, I generally include 2 or 3 seperate disconnects for sound that are fed from the same feeder and grounding system. The total power may be 100A 3 phase, but it's available on 3 disconnects or sets of cams. This may seem totally foreign to many of you guys, and it's not very common where you might work, but for the types of shows I do, and the types of shows the venues that I design do, it's very practical. The reason for this is because sometimes, the tour is carrying a monitor rig w/ distro, the sound company brings in the FOH rig with distro, and the recording/video truck needs a third feed, and all must be on the same grounding system. Together, 100A 3 phase is plenty, but the convenience and safety of being able to tie into 3 disconnects that can be energized as each feed comes online and powered up is ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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