Members Dark Ice Posted May 5, 2008 Members Share Posted May 5, 2008 Good morning folks I was hoping someone might have an answer to my question about peavey's PV series of power amplifiers. We recently bought a PV900 to power a couple of yammy club 12s, and before I buy the speaker cables I thought I'd see if this amplifier can operate the same way a QSC RMX (for example) does, with pins 1+ and 1- wired for one channel, and pins 2+ and 2- wired for the other. My aim is to rewire one of the clubs for 2+ 2- operation so I can daisy-chain the monitors and cut down on stage wiring. The manual does *not* make this clear however (9) SPEAKON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 5, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted May 5, 2008 Wonderfully clear, i'nnit?? What they are saying: Speakon for Channel A: 1+ and 2+ is hot, 1- and 2- is ground. Only Channel A appears in this connector. Speakon for Channel B: Same exact thing; 1+ 2+ hot, 1- 2- ground. Only Channel B appears in this connector. Bridge Speakon: Here's where things get muddy really fast: Channel A is 1+ 2+, B is 1- 2-, if I'm not mistaken, the "1" terminals are hot. But that's not specified. In stereo mode, *I think* both channels appear on those respective contacts. But it's not specified. In bridge mode, only channel A is used as input, but it's not specified, only shown in the example diagrams. In bridge mode there's no clue given whatsoever as to what Speakon pins to use! It's not on the back panel, not specified in the manual. And this is for the most often screwed-up mode of operation and the one that can do the most damage! http://www.peavey.com/assets//literature/manuals/00512860.pdf This manual needs an update, and the back panel should be labeled. As for your intended use....are you wishing to use 4-conductor cable from the amp, carrying two separate mixes? It *appears* you can do this by using the Bridge Speakon 1+ 2+ and 1- 2- for the connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted May 5, 2008 Members Share Posted May 5, 2008 The wiring is standard "High Current" speakon. Chan A has the + pins both hot and the - pins both negative. B is the same You cannot wire your speakers the way you asked with this type of amp. It's not a good idea because it won't be standard with much of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 5, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted May 5, 2008 Don, when you wrote, "You cannot wire your speakers the way you asked... " are you saying the bridge connector doesn't have both channels present when in stereo mode? I also have to question calling anything related to Speakons or speaker wiring in general "standard". But that's a whole 'nother ball of yarn.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted May 5, 2008 Members Share Posted May 5, 2008 Why would a PV900 need high current anything? 300w @ 4 per channel? wierd. I get it though, speaker cabs may have one driver wired on pins 1+/- and the other driver on 2+/-... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted May 5, 2008 Members Share Posted May 5, 2008 I don't remember for certain about the bridge connector ... but I'm betting that the grounds are tied and that could cause problems to his wiring scheme. In any event it means that he'd need to carry speakons wired 2+2- ... unless he used only 4 cond cables. To me it's asking for problems. If you really wanna do it... there are a number of amps that carry the a&b outputs on the A output speakon and b (wired 2+2-). It's great for bi-amping. "High Current" was a Neutrik standard suggested method when Speakons first appeared on the market for terminating amp outputs. This way you get double the current capacity in your speaker wires. Personally I think it's scary ... but there are a number of manufacturers that use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dark Ice Posted May 5, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 5, 2008 Alright, thats cleared that up, thanks guys! Now before this thread ends up in a wiring standards rant do you have any thoughts in regards to my wiring plans? My thought was just to convert one wedge to connect to 2+ 2- and I would only have to run one length of cable to one monitor, then one from that one to the next. And do the same again when we're adding another pair of mons. I dunno why I got this idea into my head but I thought this was common practise :S If you guys reckon it'll be more pitfalls than benefits I'll save myself a bit of cash by not buying 4 conductor cable Thanks again! Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 5, 2008 Members Share Posted May 5, 2008 "High Current" was a Neutrik standard suggested method when Speakons first appeared on the market for terminating amp outputs. This way you get double the current capacity in your speaker wires. Personally I think it's scary ... but there are a number of manufacturers that use it. It is the dumbest application I have ever seen. If the matching speakers are wired this way as well, if somebody accidently connects any amp that outputs a seperate signal on the 1 and 2 circuits (biamped, or bi-wired), the hot channels of the amp will be shorted together causing tragic results in many cases. Same applies to any class D amps that use full bridge switching stage outputs. Talking about setting a market up for failure? Yikes!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted May 5, 2008 Members Share Posted May 5, 2008 Yes ... but don't forget that Speakons were originally rated about 1000W @ 2 ohms. High current wiring doubles that. Ya can't have everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 5, 2008 Members Share Posted May 5, 2008 Yes ... but don't forget that Speakons were originally rated about 1000W @ 2 ohms. High current wiring doubles that. Ya can't have everything! But I'll take whatever I can get without smoke and flames thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted May 5, 2008 Members Share Posted May 5, 2008 Which end of the wire did you say you wanted smoking on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 5, 2008 Members Share Posted May 5, 2008 Which end of the wire did you say you wanted smoking on? The end farthest away from where I am sitting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 5, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted May 5, 2008 If you use directional cable, you can direct the smoke to where it's needed:thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 If you guys reckon it'll be more pitfalls than benefits I'll save myself a bit of cash by not buying 4 conductor cable Thanks again! Steve. Today (again) here's a situation that came across my desk: 1) customer ordered up a bi-amped Speakon patchby for his new JBL speakers. 2) same customer also ordered up some jumper cables to go from the subs to the mid-highs. 3) same customer didn't think he needed amp to speaker stack cables because he could just use the old ones he'd bought from me a few years ago. I had his ordering records at finger-tip control and suggested his previously purchased 2 conductor amp to speaker cables weren't gonna work for his new bi-amped stacks. .... silence... uh... and silence...."but I just bought those cables a few years ago.. and they work great" 4) "remember... I suggested you buy bi-amp cables... because I was aware of your expansion intentions... but you decieded to go cheap with the 2 conductor cables then". 5) "Uh... yea... I remember... so these 2 conductor cables won't work for my new (bi-amp) rig?" 6) "No". 7) "So I need new cables?" 8) "yes" 9) "oh".... so what can I use the old cables for?" 10) "I don't know. What ever you'll be running that uses 2 conductor cable will be fine." 11) "I won't have anything that only requires 2 conductor cables, right?" 12) "I don't think so." 13) "oh.... (crap)" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 FWIW I recently upgraded amp racks to triamp everything. All JBL mid/high boxes are biamp and all wedges are still passive (along with some older EV mains in passive). Anyway I did order 100 meters of 4 conductor from Audiopile and a boat load of connex. Problem is now I've got a TON of NL2 conductor cable sitting there doing nothing. Condsidering how expensive copper is and not coming down I won't be selling anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 6, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 Today (again) here's a situation that came across my desk:1) customer ordered up a bi-amped Speakon patchby for his new JBL speakers.2) same customer also ordered up some jumper cables to go from the subs to the mid-highs.3) same customer didn't think he needed amp to speaker stack cables because he could just use the old ones he'd bought from me a few years ago. I had his ordering records at finger-tip control and suggested his previously purchased 2 conductor amp to speaker cables weren't gonna work for his new bi-amped stacks. .... silence... uh... and silence...."but I just bought those cables a few years ago.. and they work great"4) "remember... I suggested you buy bi-amp cables... because I was aware of your expansion intentions... but you decieded to go cheap with the 2 conductor cables then".5) "Uh... yea... I remember... so these 2 conductor cables won't work for my new (bi-amp) rig?" 6) "No".7) "So I need new cables?"8) "yes"9) "oh".... so what can I use the old cables for?"10) "I don't know. What ever you'll be running that uses 2 conductor cable will be fine."11) "I won't have anything that only requires 2 conductor cables, right?"12) "I don't think so."13) "oh.... (crap)" I guess what's most sad is that the situation had to be spelled out to the person at both ends....foresight AND hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 I guess what's most sad is that the situation had to be spelled out to the person at both ends....foresight AND hindsight. This seems to be the most effective way we all learn ... do it wrong ... waste your money ... learn from it. Education is expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 6, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 This seems to be the most effective way we all learn ... do it wrong ... waste your money ... learn from it. Education is expensive. True dat. It seems that Mark was on the phone with someone who still hadn't caught on after the 'do it wrong' and 'waste money' phases..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 ... someone who still hadn't caught on after the 'do it wrong' and 'waste money' phases..... Ah ... higher education Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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