JBL vs. JBL

[agedhorse]

This comment is hard for me to believe. Bass is achieved in two ways. Cone surface area and power. I have used both the SRX 4719 and 728. Ran stereo off a Crown 3600. Plenty of bass for any indoor gig!

 

Of course it's hard to believe... very hard indeed

[agedhorse]

 

Okay, I'll repeat; they can be more efficient, but at what cost? What do you give up with a horn?

 

 

I know, I know!!!

 

The tradeoff is limited LF BANDWIDTH, flatness, cost, throat reflections etc...

[gonzobassman]

Ok.So would I be correct in assuming that the MRX 528 will suffer the same type limitations in bandwidth when compared to the SRX 718?Will 4-718s give me plenty of clean,musical ,thumping lo-end,over a wider lo-frequency range?Are the 528s just bigger,louder versions of the 518,which really sounded killer on about 1/3rd of the spectrum?

[agedhorse]

Not quite sure what your question is here...

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Ok.So would I be correct in assuming that the MRX 528 will suffer the same type limitations in bandwidth when compared to the SRX 718?Will 4-718s give me plenty of clean,musical ,thumping lo-end,over a wider lo-frequency range?Are the 528s just bigger,louder versions of the 518,which really sounded killer on about 1/3rd of the spectrum?

 

 

 

No, you're misunderstanding, thanks to the sidetrack into Yorkville Land once again. The limitations...tradeoffs I was referring to were for a horn-loaded sub. The JBL boxes are front-loaded, and don't have these limitations.

 

The 528 is essentially two 518's in one box, though typically the dual boxes have slightly better performance than a pair of the singles.

[oldschooler]

 

not always true... think of a differnce between a Tuba and your mouth making bass noise.

 

 

 

Are you saying that the yorkville can sound like 728? or can also deliever them thump and impact of dual 18s? I have used EV t-18s in the past. They have a very full sound but lack the impact till you get them into groups.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Are you saying that the yorkville can sound like 728? or can also deliever them thump and impact of dual 18s? I have used EV t-18s in the past. They have a very full sound but lack the impact till you get them into groups.

 

 

It's everything to everyone. It defies the laws of physics. It's The Perfect Sub.

 

Apparently.

[agedhorse]

 

Yorkville UCS-1: System Type Horn Loaded Subwoofer Program Power (Watts) 1000 Sensitivity (dB @1Watt/1m) 102 Max SPL (dB) 132 Frequency Response (Hz +/- 3db) 37 - 150 LF Driver(s) 15 inch, Ceramic Magnet, 3 inch voicecoil LF Program Power(Watts) 1000 Dimensions (DWH xbackW, inches) 26.25 x 19.25 x 41 Dimensions (DWH xbackW, cm) 67 x 49 x 104 Weight (lbs/kg) 116.4 / 52.8   JBL SRX728: Specifications: Frequency Response (

[dboomer]

 

Growlers are loud at 30-50hz but lack some 60-90hz. The UCS1 are smooth from 32-90, they do not have the "one note wonder" effect.

 

 

Wow ... that would be two "major breakthroughs"

 

Matt ... I think you are guessing here. I'll bet you if you actually measure them you'll find both cabs have 2-4 times as much output between 80-90HZ as they do between 30-40 Hz.

[lifeloverwg]

While I really don't want to get into the middle of this, I do want to point out that JBL's claim of 136dB is at peak power while Yorkvilles's 134dB claim is at program. Also, doesn't JBL rate their subs at whole space? I think so, some of their specs can be just as hard to quantify as others.

 

I think the SRX is an excellent subwoofer! I have never used or heard the UCS1, but I do like large hornloaded subwooofers in general. But, they are designed to be best used in groups.

 

Different strokes for different folks. Winston

[Craig Vecchione]

So, working out the numbers comparing one for one, I see that the SRX goes lower at -3dB, has 4dB less 1w/1M sensitivity but picks about 5dB back up in "power handling" (both are IMO claiming more than is real-world reasonable) so is 1dB louder under "average" conditions and when peak output is considered it looks like the JBL wins again with 136dB versus 132dB. So Matt, it looks like the UCS-1 wins in the size and weight catagory (and also price) but divide that into the SPL and the JBL wins when looking at SPL per pound or SPL per unit of cubic volume. Would you care to explain how you arrived at your original premises?

 

I summarized the specs too....at the top of the page. The response I got was, "That's the Marketing team for you...". I suppose there's some inference that we can trust Yorkville's marketing to be 100% honest, but not JBL's.

[dboomer]

 

we can trust ...marketing to be 100% honest:

 

 

You have to realize that the sensitivity spec is an interpretation, a guesstimate ... not a single hard measurement. So values only a few dB apart may not be significant. Assuming everyone is using the same standard ... which they probably are not.

 

Unless otherwise specified I would assume "max output" to be at peak power (and calculated not measured) and in half space. In the real world I would also expect that calculated number not to be the same as what will happen in the real world due to other losses.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

You have to realize that the sensitivity spec is an interpretation, a guesstimate ... not a single hard measurement. So values only a few dB apart may not be significant. Assuming everyone is using the same standard ... which they probably are not. Unless otherwise specified I would assume "max output" to be at peak power (and calculated not measured) and in half space. In the real world I would also expect that calculated number not to be the same as what will happen in the real world due to other losses.

 

 

My point was that there's an acceptance of one company's spec, and rejection of the other's, with no explanation given to support either assertion.

[drumstix]

I wish I had a meter when I had the USC1 in the garage but to my ears the USC1 didnt go as low as a single SRX718. The SRX was vibrating the building. Funny that everyone says the JBL's are power hungry yet everyone who uses a USC1 dumps the same kind of wattage into their subs as a 718 or 728.

[gonzobassman]

Ok,but someone explain to me why,and exactly where the MRX528 dual 18 sub falls short on sound performance when compared to the SRX718 SINGLE 18 sub.Please!And just for the sake of getting this(the original)question answered,lets pretend that these are the ONLY subs offered to mankind at the moment,and then,voila! Threads over,question is answered,and poster moves on to another qustion that he's wanting to ask.

[gonzobassman]

 

While I really don't want to get into the middle of this, I do want to point out that JBL's claim of 136dB is at peak power while Yorkvilles's 134dB claim is at program. Also, doesn't JBL rate their subs at whole space? I think so, some of their specs can be just as hard to quantify as others. I think the SRX is an excellent subwoofer! I have never used or heard the UCS1, but I do like large hornloaded subwooofers in general. But, they are designed to be best used in groups. Different strokes for different folks. Winston

 

 

See what I mean?I mean there is entertaining reading in this thread,and maybe 10 percent actually deals with my question,Lol

[lifeloverwg]

I summarized the specs too....at the top of the page. The response I got was, " That's the Marketing team for you... ". I suppose there's some inference that we can trust Yorkville's marketing to be 100% honest, but not JBL's.

 

It always bothers me when companies choose not to provide measured response charts. Sure, games can still be played to massage the numbers, but at least I can try to parse my own understanding out of them in comparison to others.

This has always held me back from buying some of the Yorkville products despite their generally excellent reputation. Yorkville is far from being alone in this department mind you.

 

One more reason to actually listen to products before you buy them if at all possible.

 

Winston

[dboomer]

 

Ok,but someone explain to me why,and exactly where the MRX528 dual 18 sub falls short on sound performance when compared to the SRX718 SINGLE 18 sub.

 

 

It's because the single 18 cab is tuned a bit higher and the box has a higher Q. You get more punch but less low end.

[gonzobassman]

 

It's because the single 18 cab is tuned a bit higher and the box has a higher Q. You get more punch but less low end.

 

 

Ok,great! So the kick drum will still be felt,but lo-B on the bass may falloff slightly.Correct?if so,can this be corrected through eq?

[gonzobassman]

By the way,I didnt mean to be picking on lifeloverwg,i just grabbed a quote.

[agedhorse]

 

Ok,great! So the kick drum will still be felt,but lo-B on the bass may falloff slightly.Correct?if so,can this be corrected through eq?

 

 

Sort of, it depends on the requirements of the music.

 

It may be somewhat correctable through eq but at the expense of additional power which reduces the maximum SPL because the additional power is beingused to extend the bandwidth. It's the world of tradeoffs.

[agedhorse]

There are a lot of interpretations that occur when comparing products, but clearly one product does not blow away the other.

 

This is where experience in measuring and testing (like Don and I have) comes into play. When something measures or calculates too good to be true, it almost always is.

 

I just finished a project where I measured ~3dB higher than I expected and was almost giddy with the results until I double-checked my test setup and realized that I had made my measurements based on an incorretly marked driver that was 4 ohms instead of 8 ohms that my calculations were based. That accounted for the 3dB of "free lunch" that I measured. Oh well

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Ok,but someone explain to me why,and exactly where the MRX528 dual 18 sub falls short on sound performance when compared to the SRX718 SINGLE 18 sub.Please!And just for the sake of getting this(the original)question answered,lets pretend that these are the ONLY subs offered to mankind at the moment,and then,voila! Threads over,question is answered,and poster moves on to another qustion that he's wanting to ask.

 

 

I'm pretty sure I for one...among others as well...have addressed each and every question you've asked.

[gonzobassman]

I appriciate the honesty Aged one!I originally wanted 4 728s,but right now that is just a little too fiancially aggressive.I'm thinking 4-718 w/QSC4050 will make a decent set of subs for most clubs,and smaller outdoor venues.Am I at least in the right chapter,if not on the right page?

[gonzobassman]

I'm pretty sure I for one...among others as well...have addressed each and every question you've asked.

 

You have,and I didn't mean that the way it came off.I respect all the opinions you guys give,and it's really enlightning to me.I'm old school.18s,12s,horns.All with there own amps,"tri-amped"thru a 3-way.The last PA I owned was all folded horn,so I understand a lot of whats being said,just seems like some of it was getting lost in the thread evolution.Just wanted to get back on track to understand the exact differences in these two products.The 528s seemed to do some of what I was looking for real well,but seemed like they fell of noticably on the lower end,and I,m hoping the SRX will be what I feel I'm needing for now.I liked the vertical format of the MRX,but not at the cost of sound,wich was answered much earlier.