Members dboomer Posted June 22, 2008 Members Share Posted June 22, 2008 Maybe this analogy works ... Take your car... It doesn't matter what your ultimate top speed really is ... 100mph ... 120mph ... 150mph ... 300mph. You are restricted to not delivering more than the posted speed (continuous power rating) to the road ... say 75mph. It's great to have more power available for passing (headroom). If you had that 300mph car you could really pass in a hurry .... but boy if you didn't apply expert ability it could really get you into trouble if it gets away from you. Andy and I do agree that for other than super qualified operators you should stay out of 300mph cars:cop:. Where we differ a bit is I think it's important to understand why and Andy is a bit more on the practical side emphasizing safety first and understanding second and I'm more on the understanding first and it's your own damn responsibility to understand and act in your own best interest second. So in the case of fast cars Andy's approach would save more lives. I think this board is for teaching and nobody is gonna die but if you mis-understand me it's gonna cost you some $$$ ... education is expensive;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 22, 2008 Members Share Posted June 22, 2008 Exactly, and I have made a good living off of people's poor judgement and high volume accidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted June 22, 2008 Members Share Posted June 22, 2008 See, Don and I agree! See, Andy and I agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted June 24, 2008 Members Share Posted June 24, 2008 I did not make a recommendation. I merely conveyed information, from a source I cited. You are free to disagree with it or enhance it - but you are NOT free to lay "smoking speakers" at my feet.Really? Under any conditions and with or without limiters, for any source material? You're attempting to place a general recommendation on a topic that has many variables, and you're leaving out a pile of information that could leave the reader standing before a smoking speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted June 24, 2008 Members Share Posted June 24, 2008 My last AMS catalog contained an explanation of power ratings. It went like this:RMS power'Program' or 'Music' powerPeak powerProgram power is @ 2x RMS, and is the minimum power a manufacturer thinks is adequate to power a particular speaker in order to prevent clipping and its associated damage. Peak power is the max the speaker can handle on a momentary basis. (I'm not even gonna comment on clipping causing damage ... it doesn't by itself)So if you have a speaker that handles 200w RMS at 8 ohms, get an amp that puts out 400w at 8 ohms to power it. If the speaker handles 200w 'program' or 'music' power, get a 200w amp. There are 2 small mistakes here. Replace the word 'minimum" in the program power sentence with "suggested maximum" and then it is correct. The second sentence seems to suggest that you can or should actually deliver 400W to this speaker. It is only rated to receive 200W. A more correct way to think about it is to have a amp with 400W "available" because under normal conditions it will deliver no more (and usually a lot less) then 200W into the speaker when the clip/limiter lights fire. You have to remember that these catalogs (and most manufacturer literature) is scripted by the advertising dept ... not the engineers or tech people. They sometimes just don't understand the difference between what they've written and what info was handed to them. Little word changes can have a large difference in results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted June 24, 2008 Members Share Posted June 24, 2008 Actually they mention this... the page said MINIMUM to prevent the clipping that more frequently kills speakers than outright power overload. To paraphrase: Too little power is dangerous, too much a waste of $$$.The second sentence suggests nothing of the kind. How do you read "max... momentary basis" as what should be delivered - especially when the previous sentence already says what should be delivered?There are 2 small mistakes here. Replace the word 'minimum" in the program power sentence with "suggested maximum" and then it is correct.The second sentence seems to suggest that you can or should actually deliver 400W to this speaker. It is only rated to receive 200W. A more correct way to think about it is to have a amp with 400W "available" because under normal conditions it will deliver no more (and usually a lot less) then 200W into the speaker when the clip/limiter lights fire.You have to remember that these catalogs (and most manufacturer literature) is scripted by the advertising dept ... not the engineers or tech people. They sometimes just don't understand the difference between what they've written and what info was handed to them. Little word changes can have a large difference in results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted June 24, 2008 Members Share Posted June 24, 2008 Too little power is dangerous, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO How long are we gonna spread this complete myth. There is no such thing as too little power from a power rating standpoint anyway. Speaker damage occurs when too much power is applied or too much mechanical stress is placed on the speaker ... that's it. If too little power was a problem then turning down would be blowing up speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted June 24, 2008 Members Share Posted June 24, 2008 The second sentence suggests nothing of the kind. How do you read "max... momentary basis" as what should be delivered - especially when the previous sentence already says what should be delivered? To me the term "puts out" means a positive as in "it does". What you want is an amp capable of putting out 2x so that you have some kind of chance of delivering the rated continuous power to the speaker. As far as too much power being a waste of money ... that could be someone's opinion but there are real world advantages to it ... mainly improved sound quality. Headroom is by definition wasted potential ... kinda like car insurance ... you hope you don't need it but it helps when you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted June 24, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted June 24, 2008 I did not make a recommendation. I merely conveyed information, from a source I cited. You are free to disagree with it or enhance it - but you are NOT free to lay "smoking speakers" at my feet. Why not? You posted it, and didn't add anything stating you didn't agree with the information you provided, or that there were other factors involved that needed consideration. That looks an awful lot like a recommendation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Not Serial Posted June 24, 2008 Members Share Posted June 24, 2008 yea cuz this one time, at band camp, the band played a quiet song and right when they were done they got really quiet and all the speakers blew up from not enough power.:rolleyes:sometimes my speakers blow with no amp hooked up at all, cuz like they aint getting enough power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted June 24, 2008 Members Share Posted June 24, 2008 sometimes my speakers blow with no amp hooked up at all, cuz like they aint getting enough power. ROTFL:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Harmonycat Posted June 24, 2008 Members Share Posted June 24, 2008 yea cuz this one time, at band camp, the band played a quiet song and right when they were done they got really quiet and all the speakers blew up from not enough power. :rolleyes: sometimes my speakers blow with no amp hooked up at all, cuz like they aint getting enough power. HEY!!Hot Tea through the Nostrils is not funny!!!!!I am still laughing.....:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted June 24, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted June 24, 2008 yea cuz this one time, at band camp, the band played a quiet song and right when they were done they got really quiet and all the speakers blew up from not enough power. :rolleyes: sometimes my speakers blow with no amp hooked up at all, cuz like they aint getting enough power. That's also how we lost one of our drummers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Not Serial Posted June 24, 2008 Members Share Posted June 24, 2008 did you have an 18" stone monument on your stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted June 24, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted June 24, 2008 Yes, and we had to choreograph the dwarves' dance such that it wouldn't be trod upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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