Rider Friendly mixers?

[csp1]

I'm glad I got a Mix Wiz3 recently, some of the upcoming gigs I'm doing sound for are saying "NO" Peavey, Yamaha or Mackie mixers. Some are even requesting 6 aux's.

 

Wow, this comes somewhat as a surprise, I've used/owned all three types/brands of mixers and had excellent/fair results.

 

Has anyone else encountered this?

 

Most of my gear:

 

QSC RMX 2450 Amps

EAW 3-Way 15" Mains

EAW Sub

Bose 802's

EV Monitors

Mix Wiz3 16:2

Shure Beta 58's, 87's

Shure 58's, 57's

Crown Condensers

AKG Condensers

AT Condensers

TC Electronics Effects/Reverb

dbx Monitor EQ's

Ashly Main EQ

Countryman DI's

Rapco DI's

EWI Mic Cables, Snakes

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

"NO" Peavey, Yamaha or Mackie mixers.

 

 

I'll suggest that "no Peavey" has been a standard rider clause since the days of the Peavey MKIII... when Peavey was pretty much a mainstay of southern fried country. No Mackie I could understand... but No Yamaha... their ass is showing since Yamaha has been one of the foremost names in tourgrade mixers for 20+ years.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

EAW Sub Bose 802's

 

EAW sub, as in one (1)?

 

And you're entertaining riders?

 

What do you use the 802's for?

[Scodiddly]

Maybe those Yamaha haters are Harley riders instead?

 

Yamaha has made some of the most rider friendly classics of anybody, probably. The PM-3000, PM-4000, PM5D, and now the M7CL would count on that list. The PM-3000 was a real workhorse, you could find one anywhere and just about anybody would accept one.

 

Aside from that you end up in Midas territory, if you're catering to the fussy national act types. Or Digidesign Venue system for the modernists.

 

But on the local/regional level A&H isn't too bad. Probably Soundcraft would be worth a couple more points, and there's certainly enough name recognition for a Midas Venice (which is more of a Dynacord product than real Midas) or Verona to be gladly used.

[smitty0069]

I'm glad I got a Mix Wiz3 recently, some of the upcoming gigs I'm doing sound for are saying "NO" Peavey, Yamaha or Mackie mixers. Some are even requesting 6 aux's. Wow, this comes somewhat as a surprise, I've used/owned all three types/brands of mixers and had excellent/fair results. Has anyone else encountered this? Most of my gear: QSC RMX 2450 Amps EAW 3-Way 15" Mains EAW Sub Bose 802's EV Monitors Mix Wiz3 16:2 Shure Beta 58's, 87's Shure 58's, 57's Crown Condensers AKG Condensers AT Condensers TC Electronics Effects/Reverb dbx Monitor EQ's Ashly Main EQ Countryman DI's Rapco DI's EWI Mic Cables, Snakes

No Yamaha ............OK???

I'd say......although your Mixwiz is a nice little board, it is no more rider friendly than any of the others on your list.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

Aside from that you end up in Midas territory, if you're catering to the fussy national act types. Or Digidesign Venue system for the modernists.

 

Not particually 1 (one) sub territory? A Midas Heritage and one sub... humm...

[6Imzadi]

 

EAW sub, as in one (1)? And you're entertaining riders? What do you use the 802's for?

 

The 802's are the sub:poke:

[csp1]

 

EAW sub, as in one (1)? And you're entertaining riders? What do you use the 802's for?

 

 

Actually two EAW LA118Z Series 18" sub's.

 

I have 4 Bose 802's.

 

I use a pair of 802's for smaller indoor acoustic gigs, usually duo acts (think coffeehouse), some bluegrass/americana type music or small ensemble consisting of violin, cello, upright bass, mic'd with condensors, that sort of thing. I also use the 802's when I'm hired to do sound for wedding ceremonies and for example someone is playing flute.

 

The 802's are used primarily in indoor settings for acoustic instruments and vocals, and of course I use the Bose processor.

 

I don't do to many outdoor concerts, but small "Town Fair" types, where I don't need to cover a really large area, the EAW's work just fine.

 

I have a good friend that I send folks to when they need a sound system that can be heard on the moon. He's got APB boards, super high end EAW array's, huge Crown amps, big rider truck, etc...

[W. M. Hellinger]

Most of my gear: QSC RMX 2450 Amps EAW 3-Way 15" Mains EAW Sub Bose 802's EV Monitors Mix Wiz3 16:2 Shure Beta 58's, 87's Shure 58's, 57's Crown Condensers AKG Condensers AT Condensers TC Electronics Effects/Reverb dbx Monitor EQ's Ashly Main EQ Countryman DI's Rapco DI's EWI Mic Cables, Snakes

 

Hey... HEY!!! csp1 looks like he's has got it together on many fronts AFAIC (as far as I'm concerned). 'specially with his cables and snakes

[csp1]

My intent of posting this thread was to point out how picky some riders have gotten lately.

 

I've been doing live sound for 15 years and never encountered (recently) so many demands on the type of gear that is acceptable.

 

I've always used Peavey, Yamaha & Mackie boards in the past, and felt they did an excellent job.

 

I've actually turned down several gigs based on their riders and the "overboard" gear they required, especially backline gear.

[IsildursBane]

 

but No Yamaha... their ass is showing since Yamaha has been one of the foremost names in tourgrade mixers for 20+ years.

 

 

It depends on what level of Yamaha board you're talking about. If you're concerned that somebody will show up with a Peavey or Mackie board, low-end Yamaha boards are in that pile, too.

 

-Dan.

[csp1]

I recently had the pleasure of meeting and hanging out with the owner of www.pcaaudio.net and spoke at length about riders and how agressive they've gotten over the past few years. Usually there are compromises and things always work out.

 

If any one of you ever run into these great bunch of techs at PCA Audio, you're in for a really good learning experience. They are great. They work mostly in the NJ/NYC area.

[rwhealey]

"Rider" Friendly (Analogue):

 

-Midas Heritage 3000

 

-Other "real" (not city named) Midas consoles

-Soundcraft MH4

-Allen & Heath ML5000

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

It depends on what level of Yamaha board you're talking about. If you're concerned that somebody will show up with a Peavey or Mackie board, low-end Yamaha boards are in that pile, too. -Dan.

 

So is Soundcraft.

[csp1]

 

It depends on what level of Yamaha board you're talking about. If you're concerned that somebody will show up with a Peavey or Mackie board, low-end Yamaha boards are in that pile, too. -Dan.

 

 

I agree, the Yamaha higher end boards (for example PM Series consoles) are great. I've used a few at some area churches.

 

Sometimes I wonder if road managers, personal sound techs, or anyone directly related to a performance really give the riders some serious thought, most do, but a minor few that I've worked with didn't have clue.

 

Although I've discovered that the more I do sound the more I learn about how to do it better, and how much more I need to learn - IMHO.

[Dogoth]

The theatre I work for has a Yamaha PM3500 for FOH and when anyone with a "real" rider shows up we offer to rent a PM5D for monitor world. Except for a few (although I really do like the sound of Midas boards - can I say Midas snobs), this combination has fulfiled the vast majoriety of riders.

 

No piece of equipment is universally accepted (there have been times when it was due to some endorsment deal like "all mics must be Audix" or "All DIs must be Radial"). The Allen & Heath board is IMHO a pretty good piece of equipment and most folks will probably be OK with it. If not - thats what rental houses are for (just be sure this is a considered cost before you decide to do this piece of business).

[SoundMan]

IMHO, it's not as much about the mixers, as it is the operators. They are trying to weed out the bottom feeders.

 

SoundMan

[agedhorse]

 

IMHO, it's not as much about the mixers, as it is the operators. They are trying to weed out the bottom feeders. SoundMan

 

 

EXACTLY.

[itsvegas]

Riders aren't exactly ridden in stone. Try explaining to the band what you have and I bet they would be willing to deal with it.

[Special J]

Riders are more wishlists than anything else. I've found that if you come close and give them most of what they want, you can usually negotiate out a lot of the unnecessary BS. I spend a good chunk of my time doing this very thing. While we have pretty much everything it takes to fulfill 99% of riders, not all of my clients want to pay for all that stuff. In fact most don't. I've seen lots of riders that specify "no Allen and Heath" too, but I think if you're talking about 16 channel mixers, it shouldn't matter.

 

Oh, and csp - welcome! I have a couple of gigs a year I need to rent all of the 802's I can get my hands on. Looks like you may be close enough!

[Crownman]

Riders are why we have 2 Midas boards and 2 small MixWix boards. Even if they want a different brand they'll usually accept a Midas or A&H without bitching.

[zax2000]

I think I will post my rider for bands on my pa equipment .... 'NO Behringer, Crate, or Nady allowed.'

[Craig Vecchione]

It should be pretty obvious that a rider stating no Peavey, Mackie or Yamaha, referring to Yamaha MG series. The band issuing such a rider has also tipped their hand, methinks.

[agedhorse]

Just received a rider today that excludes all digital consoles... the engineer doesn't want to deal with them for this partcular tour. Yamaha analog (M-2k) is fine with him.

[smitty0069]

Just received a rider today that excludes all digital consoles... the engineer doesn't want to deal with them for this partcular tour. Yamaha analog (M-2k) is fine with him.

However, this is not as prevalent as it used to be.