Members teater Posted February 13, 2009 Members Share Posted February 13, 2009 I have a Yamaha EMX312 and BR15's and want to add a sub. Probably the Yamaha with 1X18". I use the PA mostly in my practice romm, but of course, will want to take it to jams occassionally. Will the EMX312 power it, or do I need a separate amp? If a separate amp, how do I hook it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaBender Posted February 13, 2009 Members Share Posted February 13, 2009 It would be great if Yamaha could tell us why they didn't include a "power amp in" on their latest round of powered mixers, as it really limits the flexibility of using the powered mixer inside a more sophisticated setup. If you're not using monitors, you could simply treat the sub as the "monitor", but you won't be separating your high and low frequencies, which isn't good. Another option is to use the 312 to power your tops, then take "main out" to a powered sub with a low pass filter, or a crossover and amp, taking the lows out of the crossover into the amp and sub. The only problem with that is that you will still be feeding your lows into your main power amp and BR15s, but it might still be a significant improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members teater Posted February 13, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 13, 2009 Your second scenario is the only thing I cold come up with...and as you indicate, the lows would still be going to the BR15's. Hmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted February 13, 2009 Members Share Posted February 13, 2009 Using an external crossover you'd go line out of the head into x-over. Line out of the x-over HIGH back into the powered mixer and LOW to amp and sub. OR line out of the mixer into an amp/crossover and use the powered mixer to power monitors only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted February 13, 2009 Members Share Posted February 13, 2009 Using an external crossover you'd go line out of the head into x-over. Line out of the x-over HIGH back into the powered mixer and LOW to amp and sub. ...But as dabender pointed out, these mixers don't have main/power amp ins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted February 13, 2009 Members Share Posted February 13, 2009 Well, time for a mixer, crossover and a couple power amps. Or upgrade the powered head (why?). Bite the bullet, put it all in a road case and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members teater Posted February 13, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 13, 2009 Unalaska - Maybe you missed the part about it being in my music room. It isn't like I'm trying to run a club here. It's too much as it is, I just want some additional low end. It isn't like I need to pack it all up into a rack or anything here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 13, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 Unalaska - Maybe you missed the part about it being in my music room. It isn't like I'm trying to run a club here. It's too much as it is, I just want some additional low end. It isn't like I need to pack it all up into a rack or anything here. Nobody's keeping a secret method from you. Powered mixers are a pain in the ass to expand from, and this Yamaha makes it worse by not having a line-in to the power amp. Your easiest option is to get a powered sub (yamaha has one) and run a guitar cable (it's an unbalanced output, another shortcoming that makes no sense) from the Main Out jack to the sub. It's not ideal, because there's no crossover filtering the LF out of your mains, but it'll add the low end you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members teater Posted February 14, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 14, 2009 I never thought somebody was keeping a secret method from me. Don't know where that's coming from. Whatever. This just isn't a thread about why everybody should buy the bigest and bestest and get it over with. The Yamaha system is ideal (except for the sub thing) for the music room application I'm using it for. I understand the limitation and was thinking 2 (or more) minds are better than one and that someone might have a unique solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarharv52 Posted February 14, 2009 Members Share Posted February 14, 2009 While certainly not optimal, this would make sound.Set the power mode to main/mon, then run the tops off one side and the sub off the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarharv52 Posted February 14, 2009 Members Share Posted February 14, 2009 Sorry, Dabender said it first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gregidon Posted February 14, 2009 Members Share Posted February 14, 2009 Here's a convoluted way to do it if you don't need monitors... Mix as you normally would with the "monitor" sends. Now plug the "monitor out" into an external crossover. Return the highs back to channel 5/6, highs to Left and lows to Right. Run the box in Left/Right mode and plug your tops into the Left amp out and your sub into the Right output. Make sure that your monitor send on the 5/6 channel is all the way down. Additionally, make sure that the only channel with that channel's "level" up is 5/6 (i.e. going to the main mix bus) Congrats you have a working system!! You will have to adjust the relative levels of the tops and subs on the crossover, but other than that it should work well. *Sidenote* you may want to tape over the pots that will cause uncontrolled feedback, i.e. monitor on 5/6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 14, 2009 Members Share Posted February 14, 2009 The reason why some powered mixers are being kept simple and without complex signal routing is to keep them a simple solution for simple applications. Just like riding lawnmowers don't have buckets and blades and PTO's... because they were designed for the simple task of mowing a lawn. If you need a front loader, get a front loader. People will try to do all kinds of stupid signal routing and blow things up in the process. I'm sure Jim and Don will agree with me regarding this... we see some of the most bizarre logic when it comes to what should be an obvious solution. I do not recommend you attempt Gregidon's suggestion, it may work but you make a mistake and you end up in the stupid catagory pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members teater Posted February 14, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 14, 2009 Thanks to those who offered discussion on potential options. In the end, I think agedhorse is right. It is a simple set up, and I probably need to forego the sub. It was worth the discussion though....and hey, I will tell my neighbor to forget about putting the front end loader on his mower. Thanks again guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaBender Posted February 14, 2009 Members Share Posted February 14, 2009 Well, I'm no "sound man", but I have to differ on the flexibility/extensibility of the powered mixer. With the proper routing options, it's a very flexible unit. If it has all the inputs you need, it can easily be part of a larger rig. I decided to go the component route a couple of years ago, but I'm really tempted to get one of the better dual amp powered mixers, it would be all I'd need for most of my gigs. I would make sure it had the routing options I want, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 14, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 I don't think there's anything particularly dangerous or problematic about my suggestion to simply run from the main out to a powered sub. The lack of HPF on the mains isn't a giant problem. It's not ideal, but nothing about adding subs to a powered box is. It is however workable, simple and relatively inexpensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zax2000 Posted February 14, 2009 Members Share Posted February 14, 2009 I never thought somebody was keeping a secret method from me. Don't know where that's coming from. Whatever. It was worth the discussion though....and hey, I will tell my neighbor to forget about putting the front end loader on his mower. Well, I'm no "sound man", but I have to differ on the flexibility/extensibility of the powered mixer. With the proper routing options, it's a very flexible unit. If it has all the inputs you need, it can easily be part of a larger rig. I'm +1 with the "sound man"s here. Powered mixers are commonplace in practice rooms but there's a reason they are uncommon if not completely exempt from the medium and bigger mixing format boards category (don't know the biggest powered mixer available). Seen one a time or 2 at a coffeehouse gig or some acoustic trio but that's all. As far as the flexibility/extensibility you mention, your first post was was contradicting that statement by pointing out the lack of it in your powered mixer. I checked my Peavey powered mixer and yup, it has the same limitations. It would be great if Yamaha could tell us why they didn't include a "power amp in" on their latest round of powered mixers, as it really limits the flexibility of using the powered mixer inside a more sophisticated setup. If you're not using monitors, you could simply treat the sub as the "monitor", but you won't be separating your high and low frequencies, which isn't good. Another option is to use the 312 to power your tops, then take "main out" to a powered sub with a low pass filter, or a crossover and amp, taking the lows out of the crossover into the amp and sub. The only problem with that is that you will still be feeding your lows into your main power amp and BR15s, but it might still be a significant improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members moody Posted February 14, 2009 Members Share Posted February 14, 2009 It may cost more than getting an external power amp, but how easy would it be to get a tech into the guts of your yamaha, cut the lines going to the power amp and put a pair of jacks in for power amp out and power amp in? Then all you have to do is put a short (right angle to right angle) jack for regular operation, or plug in a crossover, eq, whatever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaBender Posted February 15, 2009 Members Share Posted February 15, 2009 ... Seen one a time or 2 at a coffeehouse gig or some acoustic trio but that's all. As far as the flexibility/extensibility you mention, your first post was was contradicting that statement by pointing out the lack of it in your powered mixer. I checked my Peavey powered mixer and yup, it has the same limitations. Well, I wasn't talking about MY powered mixer, I was talking about the OP's. My powered mixer is an old Soundtech that has excellent routing built in, but it only has one power amp, so it can't be used to run monitors. The new PV XR series have the routing to give it flexibility, as does a similar offering by Mackie. As for acoustic trios only, not in this neck of the woods. Blues and roots quartets and quintets are quite popular in bars holding around 100 people, and it's typical to just use a powered mixer, often with not much more than vocals in it. As the pros say, different tools for different applications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted February 15, 2009 Members Share Posted February 15, 2009 Why a sub in a practice room is my question? I just use a a pair monitors in my practice set up. All we need to hear is vocals loud enough to cut thru our back line. Only time I use my subs is when were gigging. Hope you have nice neighbors or live out in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members teater Posted February 15, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 15, 2009 Why a sub in a practice room is my question? I just use a a pair monitors in my practice set up. All we need to hear is vocals loud enough to cut thru our back line. Only time I use my subs is when were gigging. Hope you have nice neighbors or live out in the country. It's my guitar practice room. Not a band pratice room. Why not have a sub? That a rhetorical question...I'm not looking for an answer. dabender, I appreciate your thoughts and help on a simple question. I should have been more clear. I guess at 52 years old, having a practice room to myself is not unusual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zax2000 Posted February 15, 2009 Members Share Posted February 15, 2009 Well, I wasn't talking about MY powered mixer, I was talking about the OP's. So was I :facepalm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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