Members kurfu Posted April 16, 2009 Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 I think I already know the answers to these questions, but several heads are better then one, yes? Here is my band's current PA setup, listed in the order that it is connected: Peavey PV14 MixerBehringer dual 31 band EQDBX 266XL CompressorBBE Sonic maximizerBehringer Feedback Destroyer ProDBX 234 XL Crossover Crown XLS 402D Power Amp (one side for FOH tops ( 2xYamaha S215V0), one side for monitors(2xWharfdale wedges))Peavey PV 1500 (?) Power Amp (Bridged to two Peavey 18" Subs) Right now, we have the FOH mix going through the left side of each piece of gear, and the monitor send going through the right side of each piece of gear. -Do I need to change the connection order of the gear?-Should I remove the compressor from the monitor mix?-Should I remove the compressor from the system altogether?-Should I remove the BBE from the monitor mix?-Should I remove the BBE from the system altogether? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted April 16, 2009 Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 -Should I remove the BBE from the system altogether? Yes These are all just my opinions,I don't like compressing the entire system, if anything just the bass guitar and possibly kick drum if needed.I would never run a compressor on a monitor system....period.The BBE should just be tossed, never to be heard from again.With good mic's and proper system EQ and setup there should never be a need for a gadget toy like the BBE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kurfu Posted April 16, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 These are all just my opinions,I don't like compressing the entire system, if anything just the bass guitar and possibly kick drum if needed.I would never run a compressor on a monitor system....period.The BBE should just be tossed, never to be heard from again.With good mic's and proper system EQ and setup there should never be a need for a gadget toy like the BBE. Thanks for your reply. That's pretty much what I was thinking - remove the BBE completely, and remove the compressor from the monitor mix... But why remove it from the FOH mix? I set it at about 2-3:1 with auto attack/release times, and told our sound-man/harmonica-player to increase the threshold if he sees more than two or three bars of reduction... I was thinking mainly for transient peaks... You say to remove it completely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted April 16, 2009 Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 I just don't like compressing the entire mix.Take a listen to your system next time with the compressor bypassed and see what you like better. Most of the time for a typical classic rock type band the only thing that I find needs compression is the bass guitar. I also much prefer inserting a compressor on an individual channel (like the bass or kick drum, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kurfu Posted April 16, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 I just don't like compressing the entire mix.Take a listen to your system next time with the compressor bypassed and see what you like better. Most of the time for a typical classic rock type band the only thing that I find needs compression is the bass guitar. I also much prefer inserting a compressor on an individual channel (like the bass or kick drum, etc.) You don't think that it is useful to compress the vocals a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted April 16, 2009 Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 You don't think that it is useful to compress the vocals a bit? I have never had the need to compress the vocals with anyone I have either played with or was hired to do sound for, if the vocalist has good mic technique and knows how to really sing you shouldn't really need a compressor.Again, if all you are wanting to compress is the vocals why compress the whole system? just insert the compressor on the vocal channels or sub group. Everyone has different ways of running and setting up there system, if this way works for you thats all that matters, it's just not how I setup or run my system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kurfu Posted April 16, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 Again, if all you are wanting to compress is the vocals why compress the whole system? just insert the compressor on the vocal channels or sub group. The PV14 mixer doesn't have subgroups. If I had a mixer with subgroups, I would insert eh compressor *and* the feedback destroyer only on the vocal group... but... SIGH... I have to work with what we've got. Since we are only using one of the main channels (Right) to the FOH, is it feasible to use the other (Left) channel as a poor-man's-sub-group? Here's what I was thinking: Right main out goes to FOH. Left main out goes back to channel 10 on mixer . All normal channels set pan to hard right (to FOH) Subbed channels set pan to hard left (to left out, wired back to channel 10) Insert processing on channel 10 Channel 10 set pan hard right (to FOH) Main out left should now be functioning as a sub-group... Does this sound right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted April 16, 2009 Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 This PV 14 has 10 Inserts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kurfu Posted April 16, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 This PV 14 has 10 Inserts. Yes, it does. However, we have three vocal mikes, and one harmonica mike that I would like to process... Using the inserts would mean a separate piece of gear for each channel, yes? ...plus... I like to keep the inserts free for the occasional live recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted April 16, 2009 Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 You don't think that it is useful to compress the vocals a bit?Only if one of the vocalists really sucks. Exception is if somebody is singing and blowing harp through the same mic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted April 16, 2009 Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 ...Subbed channels set pan to hard left (to left out, wired back to channel 10) Insert processing on channel 10Channel 10 set pan hard right (to FOH)Main out left should now be functioning as a sub-group...Does this sound right?Could work but rather than using the insert on channel 10 why not just put your "desucker" in between the left-out and channel 10 input? Or better yet use an aux return instead of channel 10 so you don't use up a channel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members patman0322 Posted April 16, 2009 Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 The PV14 mixer doesn't have subgroups. If I had a mixer with subgroups, I would insert eh compressor *and* the feedback destroyer only on the vocal group... but... SIGH... I have to work with what we've got. Since we are only using one of the main channels (Right) to the FOH, is it feasible to use the other (Left) channel as a poor-man's-sub-group? Here's what I was thinking: Right main out goes to FOH. Left main out goes back to channel 10 on mixer . All normal channels set pan to hard right (to FOH) Subbed channels set pan to hard left (to left out, wired back to channel 10) Insert processing on channel 10 Channel 10 set pan hard right (to FOH) Main out left should now be functioning as a sub-group... Does this sound right? That sounds like a recipe for disaster when some grabs the wrong knob... If you're going to use compression on the vocals, wouldn't it make more sense to compress each channel individually? If you compress them as a group, when one vocal goes over the level over the threshold, the relative volume on the others vocals is going to get pushed down. As mentioned above, the bass guitar is a good place to use the compressor - great for getting a big full sounding bottom end that doesn't randomly drop or jump out. I use the Ashly parametric EQ/compressor in my sig between my bass amp and the board. My stage amp gets the straight bass signal without compression so I can hear how I'm playing and I don't get lazy and let the compressor do what I should be doing with my hands but the board gets a nice cleaned up and smooth bass signal and my bass always sounds consistent out front. We use some compression on the kick drum too because our drummer plays with a lot of dynamics but dynamics don't always translate to the dance floor very well on the kick drum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kurfu Posted April 16, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 As far as I can tell, there is no aux return on this board... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted April 16, 2009 Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 Compressing a vocal is one thing but the whole mix is another. Get rid of the BBE and DBX266 in the chain. Throw the BBE in the trash and insert the 266 if you want to on vocals. now... The 40s on 2x dual15 yamahas? OK, I'd be a little weary of that but ok. My suggestion would be to get another amp for subs in the 4-600w range @ 8ohm, run the subs in stereo (Peavey 2600), and use the 1500 in stereo for the dual 15's, and the 402 would drive 1 or 2 monitor mixes. Other than buying another amp and running stereo (by default, stereo isn't the goal, it's lightening the load on those amps), I'd suggest another mixer that is more user friendly. But that is more of a taste thing and I'm not real keen on that board or any smaller ones that size. 1 monitor mix may be fine but have a 2nd, 3rd or 4th may be even better for stage volume and easier to hear what's going on around you. Atleast 2 (1 for the stage front, 1 for drummer) is going to help quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kurfu Posted April 16, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 That sounds like a recipe for disaster when some grabs the wrong knob... Yep... that's what i was thinking... turn one of the pan knobs the wrong way and SQUEAL-BOOM-silence. I've already got a DBX 160 in my bass chain that feeds the mixer... Good point about one person bringing down all of the vocal channels.... I guess we just need to dump the compressor completely, or buy more gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kurfu Posted April 16, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 Other than buying another amp and running stereo (by default, stereo isn't the goal, it's lightening the load on those amps), I'd suggest another mixer that is more user friendly. The Crown has been doing a fine job in this config for over a year. We rarely push it anywhere near to it's limits though... I agree about the mixer - this one is great because it is so simple and straightforward, but it is also severely limited - ONE monitor mix, NO sub groups, and NO aux send/returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted April 16, 2009 Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 buy more gear. You should be able to sell the BBE for enough to pick up another two channel compressor. "There's one born every minute" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members patman0322 Posted April 16, 2009 Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 Yep... that's what i was thinking... turn one of the pan knobs the wrong way and SQUEAL-BOOM-silence. I've already got a DBX 160 in my bass chain that feeds the mixer... Good point about one person bringing down all of the vocal channels.... I guess we just need to dump the compressor completely, or buy more gear. Or trade the BBE towards another compressor if you're set on that. Or, just put it on the 2 channels that need the most help. In our case, our lead singer doesn't need compression, but it'd help level out me and my wobbly backup singing and I could set it to where I could stay just under him and wouldn't be able to get louder than him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted April 16, 2009 Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 I agree about the mixer - this one is great because it is so simple and straightforward, but it is also severely limited - ONE monitor mix, NO sub groups, and NO aux send/returns.Sorry to use the "B" word - but a 2442FX is a MUCH nicer board of that size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted April 16, 2009 Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 I'd gladly use the PV14 than a behringer anyday. Reliability is my main concern. The 402 is being driven into a load impeadance load (2 ohm) and same with the PV1500 (4ohm bridge). If it works for you then great, I don't like to base a system around that setup. The lifespan of those amps could be shortened quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gregidon Posted April 16, 2009 Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 Sorry to use the "B" word - but a 2442FX is a MUCH nicer board of that size. The mixwiz is even better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted April 16, 2009 Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 The mixwiz is even better Who besides me was wondering how many milliseconds it was gonna be before those two comments were posted ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted April 16, 2009 Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 Who besides me was wondering how many milliseconds it was gonna be before those two comments were posted ? I've got a 1622FX with a dead channel and left main out that I'll gladly trade for the vastly inferior PV equivalent, if anybody is up for it. Step right up. Free upgrade for anybody that wants it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kurfu Posted April 16, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 I'd gladly use the PV14 than a behringer anyday. Reliability is my main concern. The 402 is being driven into a load impeadance load (2 ohm) and same with the PV1500 (4ohm bridge). If it works for you then great, I don't like to base a system around that setup. The lifespan of those amps could be shortened quite a bit. Damn... you are right... we just got those Yamahaa 2X15 mains to replace a pair of Peavey 1x15... I didn't even think about the impedance of the 2x15 being 4 ohms... dammit... :facepalm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted April 16, 2009 Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 DI didn't even think about the impedance of the 2x15 being 4 ohmsA "B" EP2500 would drive them (one per channel) just fine for $270 delivered . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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