how to improve sound for small jazz gig

[Rick6]

This is probably a dumb question, but there's so much expertise here, I thought I'd ask.

 

I have a gig coming up which is a garden party. Outside, older crowd. Brazilian jazz quartet, keys, drums, bass, guitar. No vocals. Budget is enough to pay the musicians, but no more.

 

This is a familiar situation. The players bring their amps, the drums aren't mic'ed and we play the tunes.

 

So, I'm trying to think of low cost ways to improve the sound.

 

Here's what I've come up with.

 

For the guitar, use two amps and get them off the ground. Separate them to spread the sound.

 

The pianist isn't going to bring two kb amps, so I figure all I can do there is get the amp off the ground.

 

I don't have any bright ideas for bass and drums.

 

I could bring a yamaha stagepas 500 (borrowed), but I don't know how much good it would do.

 

Any other ideas to consider?

 

TIA,

 

Rick

[Shaster]

Are you saying you need to improve the sound because someone told you it was bad, or are you assuming the sound won't be any good because nothing is going through a PA?

 

I've played lots of smallish jazz/pop gigs outdoors (as a muso) with drums, bass, keys, guitar and horn(s), where we only miced the horns.

 

Only you (and the client) know how loud it should be, but I'm guessing that if you are background music, no one is going to care if they can't feel the kick drum.

 

I do tend to bring a more powerful guitar amp than I would use indoors. Wind and a lack of reflections really suck up the sound.

 

Perhaps others will have other thoughts or more tips. Good luck.

[Unalaska]

I'd use a passport to talk between songs and that's it. The musicians will have to carry the sound on thier own and that's their responsibility (since you have basically no PA). Let them know in advance, maybe they have a small PA too?

[Consume]

How to improve the sound of a small jazz gig? That's easy - destroy all the instruments so that they can't perform!

 

 

 

I think the passport would be completely useless for a band, except as posted, for something to use for announcing things.

Mic'ing a drumkit through one would be a waste of time, as it wouldn't be any louder than the acoustic drumkit would.

[witesol]

I don't see any reason why the gig can't sound fantastic without bringing in extra gear. careful balancing of the instruments and willpower to not touch the settings should do it. Unless one of the players amps is just too small to provide good sound, i wouldnt worry.

 

you want the gig to be best it can? I'd put some effort into tasteful lighting, maybe some nice rugs to stand on. ..maybe even some pipe 'n drape as a backdrop..then play your ass off

[Jerry007]

I don't see any reason why the gig can't sound fantastic without bringing in extra gear. careful balancing of the instruments and willpower to not touch the settings should do it. Unless one of the players amps is just too small to provide good sound, i wouldnt worry. you want the gig to be best it can? I'd put some effort into tasteful lighting, maybe some nice rugs to stand on. ..maybe even some pipe 'n drape as a backdrop..then play your ass off

 

pipe 'n drape?

[Flogger59]

 

pipe 'n drape?

 

 

Pipes that fit together to make a structure upon which a drape is hung.

[Rick6]

Are you saying you need to improve the sound because someone told you it was bad, or are you assuming the sound won't be any good because nothing is going through a PA?>>>

 

It was really a general question. I'm a barely-semi-pro player who is looking for advice on how to sound better.

 

I recently did a quintet concert style gig with a good sound guy (who brought a ton of PA gear). The sound was so much fuller than it is without the PA that I never want to go back.

 

But, there's no budget for that at the next gig (quartet only). So I started wondering if there was anything I'm overlooking that might make us sound better.

[Shaster]

 

I recently did a quintet concert style gig with a good sound guy (who brought a ton of PA gear). The sound was so much fuller than it is without the PA that I never want to go back.

 

 

Understood, however.... if I recall correctly you said this was a garden party - so I'm assuming you are background music, not in a concert setting.

 

Here's a tale... last summer I performed solo, at a steeple chase using only a small mixer, two small powered speakers and guitar. One week later I was in an eleven piece band performing outdoors at a festival with a company that does major shows - line array, Clair Brothers monitors, beyerdynamic M88's all over the stage, huge sound. A week or so later mixing and playing in a four piece band in a crappy pub (bar), crappy house PA.

 

One doesn't really "go back" or foward. Music is backwards, forwards, up and down. You tailor your production needs/wants to fit the bill.

 

I applaud your recognition of what a qualified tech can do for your sound, but there's a place for everything and in this case it sounds like there's only a place for four background musicians - nothing wrong with that.

 

Keep working on your music and maybe you'll get more concert style gigs. Have fun!

[Jerry007]

FWIW,

 

We recently did two gigs, but with different setup for each. We're a four-piece rock band (drums, bass, guitar, keyboards) with 4 vocals...

 

Gig#1: We ran only vocals through a small PA (pair of JBL512Ms on stands), and everything sounded fine...

 

Gig#2: We ran guitar, keyboards, and kick drum through the PA along with the vocals, and everything sounded GOOD, especially the drums. The PA gave us way better coverage (not necessarily volume) than the instrument amps alone.

 

At each gig we were fortunate enough to have someone with a clue at the mixer getting everything balanced out...

[Rick6]

Where I get to in trying to think this through is this ...

 

When we rehearse, we set up in a circle and play for each other. The amps are typically near the players facing inward. Everybody can hear and see each other and it works fine.

 

At a gig, the first thing that presents a problem is that we can't be in a circle. (This is obvious to you pros ... but I'm still getting used to this). Often we end up stretched out in a line or 4 or 5 players. My preference is a U shape, but it hasn't always been possible.

 

So, the first decision is how to set up. The bassist likes to be next to the hi hat so he can lock in visually and sound-wise. I'm the guitarist and I don't like being anywhere near the cymbals because of tinnitus. I usually try to hire a drummer who doesn't think cymbals are there to make grand statements, but that guy is often on the road. I also don't like being too close to the bell of a horn. The keyboardist wants to be either facing the audience, or facing sideways with his right hand toward the audience. The other players are probably less picky.

 

My usual thing is to put the keyboard on stage-right facing stage-left. I set up with the keys on my right, bass on my left (he doesn't get near the hihat) then drums. Horn is on the other side of the drums usually.

 

Each player except the drummer, brings his own amplification, sits it down near himself facing outward and plays.

 

First problem is that the speakers aren't pointing to the other musicians. Probably not a big deal for the non-directional bass frequencies, but not so good otherwise. So, I wonder if it would make sense for each player to have an extension cabinet as a monitor or opposite side FOH speaker.

 

Second problem is the stage volume issue. Easiest is to keep the stage volume where we want it and not worry about the audience. Maybe this is why I'm not a pro ... but, I've never even heard of anybody complaining that a band wasn't loud enough for a garden party or restaurant kind of gig.

 

Rick

[Shaster]

You don't need extension cabs, you need to listen to each other. Try rehearsing the way you would normally have to play.

 

Consider letting the bass player sit next to the hi-hats. All the bass players I know (and that's a lot) sit next to the hi-hat, it's SOP. After all locking in is important:)

 

If you don't like cymbals and it's your band, tell the drummer about your issues, and ask him to lighten up, or lower his cymbals.

 

As for volume, I work with one guy where we are so quiet that sometimes he has to switch to flute (from sax) because even his unamplified sax is too loud. These are cocktail jazz gigs, easy money, free food and drink, and I'm home by nine o'clock (or on to the next gig if I'm lucky). Sometimes you need to play the game or failing that, put on your own productions.

 

Getting a little out of the live sound thing, but I guess if it's live and there's sound....